ALL OUT FOR THE 2007TEXAS STATE/CHURCH SEPARATION RALLY ~ SATURDAY, SEPT. 8 !For state-church separation. for the civil rights of non-religious people, for the Croft family in Carrollton, and for our right to be free from theocratic state laws,CALLING ALL FREETHINKERS!http://www.atheists.org/txJoin us on the steps of the Texas State Capitol on Saturday, September 8, 2007 for the Texas State-Church Separation Rally from 12:00 noon to 3:00 PM. All Freethinkers are urged to attend — Atheists, Agnostics, Rationalists, Realists, Secularists, Secular Humanists, Brights, and every other title in the Freethought lexicon will be represented! Bring your group’s banner and some friends!Confirmed speakers include:* JOE ZAMECKI, Texas State Director, American Atheists* DICK HOGAN, Assistant Texas State Director, American Atheists* NICHOLAS PASCHALL, President, UTSA Secular Student Alliance* MARSHA CORREIRA, Texas Civil Rights Activist* PATRICK GREENE, San Antonio Atheist Activist* DEREK JONES, Co-founder, PathofReason.com* BECKY ROBINSON, Founder, President, Freethinkers of UT Arlington* NICK LEE, President, Freethinkers Association of Central Texas* TERRY MCDONALD, Chairman, Dallas/Ft. Worth Metroplex Atheists* MEGHAN REGIS, Atheist Agenda, University of Texas San AntonioPLUS live music from Austin guitarist Joe Broome — and a voter registration tableNEWS AND UPDATES AT HTTP://WWW.ATHEISTS.ORG/TXWHAT: The 2007 Texas State-Church Separation RallyWHEN: Saturday, September 8, 2007 12:00 noon – 3:00 PMWHERE: The South steps of the Texas State Capitol, Austin TexasMORE INFO: http://www.atheists.org/tx or jzamecki@atheists.org (AMERICAN ATHEISTS is a nationwide movement that defends civil rights for Atheists, Freethinkers and other nonbelievers; works for the total separation of church and state; and addresses issues of First Amendment public policy.)
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Alatham,
True.
And regarding your previous point, I believe a number of people here, in previous posts, have echoed your observation as well ? that the true problem with American education in general is the apathetic attitude of both students and their parents. No doubt the current climate of glorifying anti-intellectualism in this country isn’t helping the matter any either.
I think your observations are very accurate.
Rayden,
This country is under populated? 300+ million isn’t enough?
Please explain how an even larger population would improve socio-economic and education conditions in this country.
Compared to many European and Asian countries we are drastically under populated, my proof being that Germany has a population density of 230 per square mile while we have 30. This country could easily support a good many more people. I did not say it would help if it were to grow but it could be controlled to be more of a neutral thing although I would love it to stay around where it is now.
Rayden
There is no polite way to say what needs to be said. What the f***? What planet, literally, are you living on? The world is overpopulated period. We are f***ing-up our environment beyond repair. And who is the biggest f***er-upper? That’s right, we are. Sure let’s add a few more hundred million. That won’t have any consequences, will it? Come on!
I agree here with What. I think the planet as a whole is overpopulated. We’re scrambling to give basic rights to and feed the 7 billion of us that are here now. How many hundreds of thousands die before they’ve even had the chance to contribute to society? Is adding to that number going to help?
If the US decided to “fill out” a bit more, we’d just be stretching our natural resources even more thin than they already are. And to what purpose? How would humanity as a whole benefit from having more Americans around?
It may sound cold to say this, but I’m willing to bet a good 20% of the world population isn’t actually contributing to humanity’s future. In other words, had they never been born, we wouldn’t be any worse off. The number is probably quite a bit higher.
Sure, these people have family and friends that care about them, but if they hadn’t been born in the first place that wouldn’t matter.
By the way, does anyone know the global unemployment rate?
We really do need to curb our population growth, it’s out of hand. We’re feeling the effects now (pollution, violence, etc), and it’s only going to get worse here on out.
This is a problem we’ve brought upon ourselves. And it’s a problem that only we can fix (much like the vast majority of our problems). The cynic in me wants to blame religious intolerance to birth-control, but I’m sure we’ve also evolved to want population growth.
Now we’re really really extra off-topic. But hey, it’s the Internet.
Comment from: Rusty Shackleford
Now that’s a funny response…at least you showed your wit…
But the ignorant comments that followed my post proved my point…
Many comments are clearly regurgitated “myths” about homeschooling…
I see many on this board know about as much about homeschooling as they do about religion…
Hey Rusty Shackleford. I went to high school with a guy names Rusty Shackleford, and his sister Lori. By any chance, is that you?
Joe Zamecki
Austin, Texas
http://www.atheists.org/tx
Joe,
Sorry, that’s not me. It’s a pseudonym I stole from King of the Hill. I wonder if the guy you went to high school with was the inspiration for the pseudonym? Mike Judge (creator of the show) is from Texas.
Rusty – how is Dale Gribble these days?
KA,
Never met him! I swear!
You never fail to amuse me. From the statement above it would seem to me you expect people on an atheist blog to “know” religion because we don’t believe, but of course you only mean your religion right?
Should you be expected to “know” the wiccan religion in order to dismiss it? How about scientology? Did you learn the difference between every sect of xianity before choosing?
You are the one who knows NOTHING of religion except the one you happened to be born into. If you had been born xian and through much research decided to be buddhist I would at least have some respect for your assertion that the only one who knows anything is, of course, yourself.
As for homeschooling, I think if your children were homeschooled in order to brainwash them and take away their free will regarding religion then there is no doubt it is wrong, in fact it borders on child abuse.
“I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours”
- Stephen Roberts
The above quote is for you phreedm. It explains clearly why it is absurd for you to expect atheists to study your religion in order to dismiss it. I no more have to learn about jesus than I do about zeus to know neither one is true.
There is no such thing as ‘Atheism.’
Why? If an Atheist, someone who declares there is no G-d, no creator, wants any intellectual credibility they MUST answer this question:
How did the world come into being?
1. Was it always here?
2. Did it happen by accident?
According to the calculations of British mathematician Roger Penrose show that the probability of universe conducive to life occurring by chance is in 1 to the 123rd power. This means the number 1 with 123 zeros. The phrase “extremely unlikely” is inadequate to describe this possibility. It’s not even ‘probable.’
Since no normal, or honest Atheist (Or anyone else) would invest in a business with such odds (But a dishonest and biased person will stand by such odds), you can bet they wouldn’t stand up against these odds regarding anything else, unless they’re not honest and have an agenda. Atheism is probably due to some unfortunate illness, problem or a rebellious nature-hubris.
No self-respecting intellectual should ever get into a conversation with them because they get emotional and even angry.
bruce v. hoffinger
If a Theist, someone who declares there is a god, a creator, wants any intellectual credibility, they MUST answer this question: How did their god come into being?
brusev,
We MUST answer??? Questions YOU devised?
Your questions: “How did the world come into being?
1. Was it always here?
2. Did it happen by accident?”
imply that if humanity doesn’t have all of the answers yet to how the universe began we should all just “pick” an organized religion, take an oath that only “my” religion is the “truth” and all other gods are “false”, pray to a god or gods for an afterlife, and tithe them 10% of our earnings is just ridiculous.
It is more than a slight leap of probability to get from “i don’t know how the universe started” to “my god is the one true god” and all others will burn eternally.
You probably shouldn’t consider yourself a “self-respecting intellectual” since your entire post is littered with insults, disingenuous statements and questions, but “we” may answer with anger?
brucev said:
All this demonstrates to me is that Penrose demonstrated there was a 1 to the 123rd power chance that the universe was created at random.
It is easy to understand once you realize the universe had billions upon billions of years for this “chance” to occur, and when you factor in an unlimited timeframe the odds grow higher upon higher until the probably drops to a certainty that the UNIVERSE WAS CREATED BY CHANCE.
Actually there is no such thing as a christian; no one lives as He did. We learned this recently in our bible studies. “He is not a True christian.”
No, no, no. We must ASK the question(s).
bruce said
And yet, oh my, here we are.
As to your questions, we aren’t obliged to answer any of them. As Obeah says, we are usually the one doing the asking.
Actually, “1 to the 123rd power” = 1. So your position is that it is a certainty that the universe was created by chance.
Nice work, Bruce.
Priceless!! Good one, Rusty – I needed a good chuckle today. And keep up those illogical arguments, Brucie. You must have been home schooled by fundie parents.
Just what we needed, another xian troll (sigh).
Rusty,
Oh well. lol I remember that on King of the Hill. I went to high school at Katy High School, the birth of “solemnization,” which was another moment-of-silence type scheme that inspired a lawsuit and some media coverage a few years ago. They still have the moment of silence there…over the intercom…! lol
I don’t even think the mathematics of brucev is even theoretically possible, perhaps someone could explain it to me.
How could a 1 to the 123rd power odds even be calculated without knowing the entire timespan of the universe because time itself would increase the chance of such an anomaly as chance?
And are we to presume the other 122nd power means a god did it? What factors would be needed to even mathematically do these equations.
It is more likley the universe formed by chance than by a god because even if a god did it then who made the god exist, at somepoint “chance” becomes the absolute answer.
Brucev
You are a moron. Life exists. Therefore probability of its occurrence was one. Man how stupid can you be. Do you know even know what the word “probability” means. It is all CONDITIONAL you f’ing idiot. Another homeschooler!
brucev:
Penrose also stated:
I’ve always been rather…puzzled at this worn out argument. ‘Look at the odds!’
I think it makes less sense. Why on earth would any deity take long-shot odds? Besides which, as compared to what? The lack of life in other universes?
I think it makes our existence more of an accident if a deity exists.
How often did gawd dice at craps, until it hit sacred seven?
KA
I’m not puzzled. The argument is just stupid.
For Brucev’s sake:
Suppose I flip a quarter and ask persons A and B what the probability of the heads event is. Person A answers 1/2 and person B answers 9/10. Who is right? Well if they did their math correctly they both are. B must have known more about the coin tossing dynamics than person A. When anyone says the probability of life forming was 1/100000000000000 what they are saying is that they don’t know much and that is all. It does not mean that the formation of life was unlikely. Such a statement is meaningless.
Dear Bruce,
You’ve made one enormous error. It is ALWAYS better to answer “I don’t know” than it is to make up an answer.
Making up answers is intellectually dishonest.
We also don’t need to know the origin of the universe to know that adding a deity to the mix only makes the universe’s existence even more unlikely.
An analogy: The chances of a fruit cocktail leaping into existence with no prodding are enormously small. The chances of a fruit cocktail with a small party umbrella leaping into existence are even smaller.
So to answer that question, we don’t know how the universe came into existence. Humanity will spend the next few hundred (or more) years thinking about it. Remember that science is progressive. If we don’t have an answer now, come back next week.