As some of you know, I drive a lot. Too much, frankly. Luckily, I have my satellite radio and I do tend to listen to Howard Stern a lot.Howard often goes on rants about the silliness of religion, but he never goes all the way and calls himself an Atheist. However, they had a guest with his own show, “John the Studderer”, who sounded like I told him what to say. How nice!Have you noticed that a lot of radio personalities have taken a turn towards the secular? More than before, and more than TV? I wonder if it’s my perception or a symptom of reality.
Sorry about the double post.
I seen the article and if it does anything it casts more doubt about ADAM and EVE to me or any religious begining written. All it does it kinda say how there were more then one species of HUMANS living at the same time instead of one species evolving to the next which to me means that we evolved from many different species not just in a line right down one after each other. The funny thing is they are both NOT THE SAME so how does that help the bable which states ADAM AND EVE started everything well if that was true then HOW COULD THERE BE TWO DIFFERENT SPECIES of HUMANS ? AT THE SAME TIME ? IT cant be we would all be the same decendants from adam and eve so if anything it hurts Christianty more.
imforgvn,
What is it you want? I and others have given you their best answers and yet you feel the need to insist we tell you what came before the big bang.
Science is about best evidence. At the moment there is scant evidence for what preceded the bang. I repeat: because one has little or no knowledge on a subject does not mean that some invisible force was responsible.
This isn’t meant as an insult but your inventions of beings outside time as an explanation for a first cause are juvenile. It is the kind of thinking one would expect form a Bronze Age human.
Jaydave,
Go read the article again after you’ve had a cup of coffee. It says that homo erectus and homo habilis fossils where found from the same time period very close in proximity to each other. Supposedly these were both PRE humans and were thought to have evolved one into the other, from homo habilis, to homo erectus, to homo sapien (in case you didn’t know, humans are homo sapiens). It says NOTHING about two species of humans (homo sapiens). What are you doing, trying to fill in the unkown gaps with leaps of speculation? That’s ok, it wouldn’t be the first time.
Obeah, this bronze man has made a lot more sense than you have. All you do is say NOTHING and try to be condescending (I guess you are the type of person who thinks that by knocking one down, it makes you bigger), well the fact is it makes you smaller.
I am giving my position and asking WHAT YOU THINK happened. I KNOW YOU nor anybody else can answer the question DEFINITIVELY. Isn’t this an atheist website? Isn’t atheism a philosophy??? It can’t be a science because you can’t PROVE (or even hypothesize) beyond a REASONABLE doubt that God doesn’t exist. Isn’t philosophy about exchanging ideas??? How old are you? Have you read any books? Do you have any original thoughts??? If you don’t THINK anything, that is fine, I accept it and I don’t ask or expect anything else from you on the subject. (except for more low brow insults direct towards me because you have nothing of value to add…and I’m try to insult you, just stating fact in light of the useless, pablum laden posts you’ve posted).
And if it is juvenile then I am in good company with hundreds and hundreds of philosophers who ponder such things.
Geez, bring it up a notch will you!
OBeah,
I meant that I was NOT trying to insult you. Accept my correction.
imforgvn,
Sheesh. Stop shouting already.
I am seven(7)years old and have read at least six and a half books. That’s probably six more than you, you poopyheaded poop-head.
No, I do not have any original thoughts and it seems to me that I have company.
Pondering the origins of the universe does not a philosopher make.
How many times must you be told that science is not about proof?
Who forgave YOU anyway?
imforgvn
Really man if you want to know how little you know go get an education. It is obvious that yours is sorely lacking and nobody has time to walk you through K through 12 let alone through a doctorate.
Thread dead.
OK, enjoy your slumber.
Over and out.
im
No you didn’t answer my question, it was really simple, who created the creator?
Anadrol,
Sorry, “What” said the thread is dead. OK, we’ll resurrect it for a second.
Your question is flawed…circular reasoning.
It’s the same as asking what caused the first cause? Well the first cause couldn’t have been caused by a cause prior to it otherwise it wouldn’t be called the first cause. The creator existed a priori and everything was created by him…including the concept of creating and the laws that governed it. Kind of a heavy concept, which again I can grapple with but not grasp. I’ve been consistent in that I always said what I said was my opinion. It is unproveable, like everything else having to do with the origin of the universe. I’m just postulating, theorizing, wondering, pondering etc. Not looking to convert, only looking for someone else who might wonder about these things and want to talk about it. I should go to a philosophy blog because I’ve found that you atheists are more interested in judging, criticizing, mocking, libeling, labeling and otherwise being condescending. What a shame, I thought I was amongst intellectuals, even if I’m not one myself (as several have kindly pointed out).
But what do I know? I’m stupid, uneducated, and unread according to some. I guess I’m threatening to some becuase I’m none of those things.
I’m actually pretty funny, thoughtful, kind and respectful, even in the face of venom. I’ve had my moments of hitting back but hey, I’m homo sapien (yes, homo sapiens are different from homo erectus and, homo habilus for those of you scientists who didn’t know).
To thine own self be true….TRUE DAT!
???
Im4:
The reason you may be so sensitive to the mocking you feel is that the nonsense you bring up has been dealt with over and over and over. Rather than have to explain every little thing to you, some here have recommended some sites where the information is readily available. However, you have shown yourself to be unwilling to educate yourself in the basics as most of the atheists have done in regards to religion.
And, BTW your belief in jesus is a religion in that you believe that he even existed without evidence other that an old, poorly written, self contradicting book of mythology that was assembled under the orders of a pagan emperor as a means to control an unruly population.
Basically, I get tired of having to explain things overandoverand… to people that refuse to do their own homework when they have been shown where to find the answers they are (supposedly) looking for in regards to Atheism, evolution, etc.
Tax religion. It taxes me to no end.
imforgivn,
Actually what you are referring to as circular logic is instead a case of special pleading. You creator is an exception to your own rule – by your fiat.
If you are permitted to claim no cause is required for your god, then we are equally entitled to claim no cause for the universe. Each is an equally unjustified special pleading (except that the universe is, well, real).
666
And the reason why this really is fruitless is that there is a lot of heat here but not much light. All I get from you is that my faith is “nonsense” because I believe in a creative force.
You on the other hand believe that EVERYthing came from NOthing.
Now that is the epitome of nonsense.
Also, I’ve been to the websites, read a bit here and there in my life.
You keep on missing my point. I came here to hear what you guys had to say, not to re-read the party line stuff I’d already read. I know where you are coming from. I just wanted to know what makes you tick…what makes you beleive that this amazing universe from star to single celled organism wasn’t designed even though an honest evaluation would lead one to see intelligent design everywhere. But I allow you the right to ignore it or try to argue it away.. You call my belief in a creator a “cop out” to not knowing, but your cop-out is that you just don’t/can’t know.
That’s fine. I’m good with that. You believe what you believe because you see evidence (or lack of it)and choose to interpret it the way you see it. I believe what I choose to believe because I see the evidence in a different way.
That doesn’t make me or you any smarter than another because we are talking about our view of something that is unknowable.
So since I’m boring you all by asking the same questions (because I get no real answers) I will shut up and wish you all well.
That doesn’t mean I won’t weigh in from time to time but this horse is dead and beaten. You believe what you believe and I beleive what I believe.
In the end I can’t lose…If I’m wrong, when I die I won’t know and some worms will have a nice meal!!! If you are wrong, you will have to face God in person. Now that is an awesome thought. Good luck!
Im4;
Please have the courtesy or personal integrity to show me where I (666) posted that I (666):
“believe that EVERYthing came from NOthing”.
You can’t do it because it never happened. This is called a strawman fallacy. Typical christian behavior seen again and again in an attempt to show how superior you believe yourselves to be.
Have you yet actually read the information at the sites I and others have provided?
This is not “because I see evidence in a different way” (your words). This is an example of not even looking at the evidence. Perhaps if you removed the blinders and made an effort, you might even gain “some” respect as has Spanders (a christian that frequents this site).
Tax religion. It taxes me to no end.
im4gvn,
I think you misunderstand our answers to your question. The fact is, we do not know from whence came everything. There are several competing theories right now concerning the BB, but nothing I am aware of about what came before the singularity. Therefore the jury is still out.
I have never answered this question before, that is, what I personally believe, because I do not know if you are familliar with Stellar Parallax, or the Doppler shift as it relates to light, not sound.
Also, if I understand currently accepted astronomical thinking, it is believed that for the first hundred million yrs or so after the BB, there was NO MATTER WHATSOEVER, only super heated energy. Matter percipitated out of the energy after the universe started to cool. Hydrogen was the only matter to coalesce. Huge clouds of Hydrogen came together and started lighting off under the tremendous heat and pressure. Every single element on the periodic table of elements, except for Hydrogen and a number of the super heavy elements that have only been observed under laboratory conditions, were forged in the nuclear furnaces of a star. Our sun is believed to be a third generation star. (Two previous stars lived and died and our star is made up of their remnants)
Look on a bottle of vitamins sometime. Think about how the human body needs things like Iron, Zinc, Calcium etc… to stay alive. We are in fact made of star stuff!
And this I believe.
Here are a couple of links that might help you understand that the Universe is close to 14 billion yrs old, as opposed to 6 to 10 thousand yrs. If you are not interested in reading them, then there is nothing I can do to bring you up to speed, since they can articulate those topics so much better than I. After you check them out, if you want to discuss. I’m all ears…shit, I mean eyes. Oh yeah, and fingers, too. Also, I have narrowed it down for you so you don’t have to read a damn thesis to find the info you need. Happy reading
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_parallax
See 7 Stellar Parallax
7.1 computation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doppler_shift
See 4.2 Astronomy
I happen to know how the universe was formed. It was sneezed out of the left nostril of a purple unicorn (that exists outside of time and space).
It’s written in a sacred text. and i believe it. Therefore it must be true.
What??? Why is that any less reliable than “God did it”?
Zounds imforgvn!?
I did have it in mind to offer an apology. I thought I might have been too hard on you but I now think that my frustration was justified.
I do have to thank you though. I finally get why I am addicted to christian radio and TV. Your mind set is so bizarre. It is impossible for you and your ilk to begin at zero, ask questions and follow logic. Again, not an insult, just an observation.
I’m sure you believe this but anyone reading your comments will notice that you won’t accept any answers that don’t fit your preconceptions.
As for your threat to go to a philosophy site I can only warn you that you will encounter the same epithets, unless of course you are familiar with Hume, Spinoza Ingersoll, Russell, Hobbes, J.S. Mill, Bentham, and so many others.
im4gvn,
This is another major difference between Christians and Atheists.
Christians spend an inordinant amount of time concerned about what will happen to them when they die.
Atheists do not concern themselves with what happens when they die. We spend our time concerned with THIS life,(the one we KNOW we have) not with wishful thinking about some perceived afterlife. (the one in which there is zero evidence for)
im4g
Unless of course it’s one of the thousands of other gods that those professing your faith have persecuted and irradicated throughout the ages. Then you could be in a world of hurt.
Personally I don’t like your chances even if gods are real.
Checkout this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brane_cosmology
also this one
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang#Speculative_physics_beyond_the_Big_Bang
imforgvn,
I took you upon your offer and sent you an email. I have not heard a response.
Atheon
anadrol,
Thanks for the links. Notice I didn’t suggest nothing came before the singularity, just that I am unaware, or more accuratly, unfamiliar with what came before the BB.
I have studdied things like string theory, multiverses, the Big Foam, etc… Truth be know, though. They just make my head hurt. I am afraid those ideas are just a little beyond my ability to comprehend. At least on my own. Maybe if I had a private tutor, I could get on with it, but left to my own devices, I think the word is ‘flounder’.
Ren
Me too, buddy. I’m glad these other guys are here to point thses things out!
HZ
You are correct. It is written. It is the purple unicorn which resides outside time and space, while the pink, invisible ones appear within time and space. Although, as they are invisible, they don’t quite appear, as it were.
On an atheist blog. Imagine that.