This is going to make you mad. I hope it does. This is a report just filed from Kathleen Johnson in Iraq — fighting at least one too many battles.
Thought you’d be interested in this report of the first-ever meeting ofAtheist service-members in Iraq under the umbrella of the MAAF-Iraq chapterof the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers. This meeting wasput together by the same young MAAF member who recently had his secondletter published in the Stars and Stripes.One of our members, a young Atheist enlisted soldier, thought he would liket o see if he could generate some interest in MAAF meetings at his ForwardOperating Base (FOB) here in Iraq (not the base I’m at, by the way). He gotthings coordinated and started hanging flyers, and after weeks of having tore-hang his flyers almost daily because some vandal kept tearing them down,he finally succeeded in having a small MAAF meeting. I wasn’t there becausethe meeting wasn’t on my FOB, but I knew he was holding it and was expectingto hear from him after the meeting. Keep in mind that this young soldierdid everything right – he went through the Chaplain’s office and jumpedthrough all the hoops it takes to legally hold meetings that are religiouslyor philosophically based. Four soldiers attended this meeting – all of themvery junior enlisted soldiers with the exception of one Major (an O-4), whoclaimed to be a “freethinker”.Well, to make a very long story a little shorter, the Major turned out to bea fundamentalist Christian who verbally berated the other attendees, accusedthem of plotting against Christians and disrespecting soldiers who have diedprotecting the Constitution, and threatened them with punishment under theUCMJ for their activities (said they were “going down”) and said he would dowhatever it took to shut the meetings down. Keep in mind that by this point,he had two of the attendees (one soldier fled when the shouting started)standing at the position of attention so that he could yell at them, beratethem, and humiliate them. This apparently went on for several minutes atwhich time the Major shut down the meeting by saying he wasn’t some”push-over Chaplain” and that he would not tolerate the meetings tocontinue.The young MAAF member who hosted the meeting is absolutely freaked out aboutwhat happened, but he said he’s going to continue with the meetings andisn’t going to be bullied by the prayer warriors. I’ve advised him toimmediately notify the Chaplain sponsor of what happened to get guidancewhile I try to figure out what to do next. I should hear something backfrom him tonight sometime and there’s even a small possibility I might beable to score a mission to his FOB and attend one of his meetings in thenext few weeks (if I do, I’ll meet with the Chaplain in person).As for immediate action, he’s going to get me the names of his Chaplainsponsor and the name of the officer who disrupted the meeting. My intentright now is to make a formal report to the most senior Chaplain I can findalong with possibly an Equal Opportunity complaint against the officer if wecan get him fully identified. I may not be eligible to make that complaintbecause I wasn’t there, but I can at least smooth the way for this youngtroop to make one if he elects to. At the very least, I can make the EOoffice formally aw are of what happened there.More info will follow when I get it, but right now, feel free to disseminatethis information since I’ve intentionally sanitized it for names andlocations. I will be happy to forward any words of support to him if theyget mailed to my milatheist@aol.com address – he could really use someencouragement right now, I think.KathleenKathleen Johnson,Military Director,American Atheists, Inc.kjohnson@atheists.org(AMERICAN ATHEISTS is a nationwide movement that defends civil r ights fornonbelievers; works for the total separation of church and state; andaddresses issues of First Amendment public policy.)http://stripes.com/article.asp?section=125&article=47626
This is truly horrifying and a total abuse of rank. The Major should be reprimanded, and, imo, court-martialed at once. He totally violated those soldiers’ civil rights. I hope they file a complaint so the officer can be identified and punished. I am so disgusted, as will be my husband, also a Major, when I show him this story.
Oh yeh, Major Blowhard is goin down. Just let me know where to address the letters or emails to his CO and his CO’s CO etc.
I bet he was the one ripping down the notices. He deserves anything he gets.
That major is disrespecting the memory of all the soldiers who have died to ensure that Americans stay free of fascism.
Amen CAB…:) hehehe.
That major should be immediately court-martialed for his actions. That was a complete abuse of his rank and what’s more he had them standing at attention yelling at them for doing nothing wrong. I’ve gotten some crap from the good ole officer corp for not participating in invocations and whatnot, but never anything like this.
One Army under Xtian God whose purpose is to impose Xtianity on heathens (non-xtians) is not constitutional but G.W. could write an executive order to change that.
I would be in favor of busting the major to PFC for his lack of understanding of the law of this country. I would also support demoting the GW to citizen for his blatant disregard for the rights of non xtians>
It’s gutsy of the organizer to want to keep at it, but I wonder if he’ll be able t o get anyone to future meetings after what happened at the first one?
I hope so. That major was totally out of line.
Karen
If the major is disciplined I think it will be likely that meeting attendance will increase.
What
I’m not familiar with how things in the military work. If the major is disciplined, will those ranking below him know about it?
If so, then I agree, that attendance will increase.
I sincerely hope that Major get’s what we all know he deserves. But, the officer corps is heavily entrenched with Christian Bigots.
My suggestion to those involved, if I may be so bold: Immediatly contact the BN EO Officer and fill them in on what has happened thus far. Make arrangements for a second meeting of MAAF, hang flyers, etc… and contact Stars and Stripes and request a reporter and preferably a video camera, to attend the next meeting. If it is explained to them what happened the last time, they may be very happy to send someone to cover the meeting. Our folks can also be accomodating to the reporter to ensure they can make it to the meeting.
This major is absolutly wrong and there are people that, once they are made aware of the problem, will step in and do the right thing. There are a lot of religious assholes in the military, but not everyone is that way. The key for the junior enlisted is to maintain military bearing during times when they want to tell this jerk where to go. That would be counter productive, since regardless who is right or wrong, they will lose every time. Use the proper channels, and they should prevail in the end.
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=25659
http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2007/08/complex-life-and-death-of-pat-tillman.html
Wrong on so many levels….
I just hope these 3 enlisted soldiers know that, while they may not be given their due respect by this idiot Major, they have the infinite respect and appreciation of freethinking civilians like myself and many others.
Cheers for the young soldier and a pox (a bad one!) on that major! It will take courage to follow through and I hope the young soldier can continue to fight the good fight.
Great idea, Ren, to have a reporter and a video camera on scene at the next meeting.
To that major now in Irak, an old arab curse:
May his crotch become infested with the fleas of a thousand camels, and his arms become too short to scratch.
Things like this are scary. Rusty Shackleford is right. Soldiers died to protect FREEDOM, not to impose xtianity!
You will all want to take a look at this totally on-topic video and report:
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/080307A.shtml
If true…I agree that this was totally wrong. However it’s been my experience around here to wait to here the other side of the story…
Hey…whatever happened to the myth?
Why would everyone on this board support a religous or non-religious meeting within a military base? After all…it’s funded by our tax dollars…it’s either legal or illegal…
And speaking of getting mad…
http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5020241.html
Just one more piece of evidence that the myth is just that…a myth…nothing more then a fund raising tool…
what,
I checked the site you mentioned but couldn’t watch very much of it as I instantly became nauseous and threw up.
Barf, barf, barf!!!
Phreedm:
Just like religion itself?
Though, I’m not sure how government officials forcing children in Texas public schools to conform to a state imposed pledge to a monotheistic deity is evidence that the separation of church and state is a myth?
It seems to me the only evidence here of anything is that the Texas state legislature doesn’t mind pissing on the constitution of the United States.
Comment from: DVanWechel
I believe you’ve answered your own question…
What,
You’ll enjoy this. What a coincidence! Some might say…miraculous?
What,
You’ll enjoy this. What a coincidence! Some might say…miraculous?
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/08/military_igreport_religiousvideo_070803w/
phreedm
would you want the state of virginia to force your child to pledge under allah.
the major needs a refresher on iff.is he there to fight atheists or jihadists.
Apple pie allah mode?
Comment from: reason
What a silly question…God has been involked by our leaders throughout our history…not allah.
involked=invoked
“What a silly question…God has been involked by our leaders throughout our history…not allah.”
Even more silliness.
Placenta,
Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all Abrahamic religions. Ergo: Yaweh=Jehova=God=Allah. They are all different names, for the exact same god. But then, I guess you already knew that, in which case, our leaders have, in-fact, been invoking Allah all along.
Ren
How does one xian know they are worshipping the same god as another xian let alone worshipping the same god as a jew or muslim?
What,
Don’t ask me. I don’t make the rules. I just like to point them out to people that claim to be religious, but don’t know something as simple as the origin of their faith.
I’ll bet Placenta believes Allah is that evil ‘Moon God’ that I hear preacher-men on TV talking about all the time.
I am willing to bet most people here have already read this story, but it is worth mentioning again.
From LTG Boyken, deputy under-secretary of defence for intelligence, speaking to an audience of Evangelical Christians, while in uniform, and, one would assume, speaking on behalf of his office.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3199212.stm
Placenta,
Also from the same article mentioned above.
that major must have age-old genes from a warrior priest from the dark ages/crusades. what an assh*le:)geez, what does everyone think would happen if military nontheists tore down their fliers and whatnot? yeh, you know.
I believe I have identified that dickhead MAJ. It’s just a guess, but:
Can I get an ‘Oh Brother’?
How could people be so ignorant?
What,
Yikes!!!!! These people are running the Pentagon!!!!?????
This http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/080307A.shtml
is one of the scariest videos I have seen. Thank you?
Ren
Even though you could be right , Mr holt’s letter does not screem “Pushy Assh*le” enough . I wish I had your talent for finding stuff like that.
The Major in question needs to be tried at Courts Martial and sent to Ft Leavenworth for 6 months of hard labor, then issued a dishournourable discharge, then registered by the FBI and DHS as a hate crime perpetrator. Religion is a private matter and the government shall make no laws respecting the establishment of a religion. That major, and his COs, are, in effect, making laws that establish Christianity as the official state religion, by their actions of intimidation and disapproval of the Atheists meeting. The military is full of theist bigots: I once had aGeneral say at a change of command that his two requirements to pick a new squadron commander were that the person know the job inside and out and ‘be a good Christian’. Another CO stood in fromt of his troops and said that it was important for everyone to have some kind of religion or spirituality or else peopel would not’ be grounded’. Also, a major at the same unit said that ‘the government should grow /make drugs, then lace them with poison, and kill all the drug abusers. He aslo has make similar disparaging remarks about atheists and homosexuals. This major is a ‘big time Christian’. This all has happened at an Air Force Base in the great white Nrth.
septos,
I wouldn’t call it a talent. There are some on here that are truly gifted. I’ll leave that label to them. I just read a lot of Army related material because of my affiliation and the wife still being active duty. It’s not hard to find these things. They are all over the Stars and Stripes and the Army Times.
In case you are interested:
http://www.estripes.com/
http://www.armytimes.com/
CAB4reason,
I hear you. I can think of two specific times where a soldier I was serving with got in trouble for something most soldiers would have received punishment under the UCMJ, but because they went to Chappel every Sunday, they were “given the benefit of the doubt” because they were “godly”. Or was it “Christ-like”? Oh well, the result was the same. Unequal punishment for a similar infraction based on religious perception. I almost got in trouble for pitching such a bitch about both instances.
@phreedm:
So, if I understood you correctly, if you happened to move to, say, Jordan, or Israel, or Croatia, you’d have apsolutely nothing against your children be forced to pledge under Allah and the Propher, or under Moses or under Virgin Mary?
I realize this is a little old, but I think it speaks volumes. I agree wholeheartedly!
I am not an athiest, or a soldier. I am just a grandmother, but I AM AN AMERICAN!
This is the most abhorrent, egregious assault on OUR Constitution that I’ve ever heard of.
That A.H. Major has DEFILED the men and women who have died for America’s Rights of Religious Freedom and he should be drummed OUT of the military! He doesn’t deserve to represent Americans, and he certainly does not deserve to be in a position of Leadership!
EVERYONE – I urge you to send complaints to aclu@aclu.org “Freedom of Religion ALSO includes freedom FROM religion. That was the SOLE purpose for our forefathers to found this Nation: that e, the People, may be free to worship -or not- free of dictatorship.
ps ~ IMPEACH Bush & Cheney (for starters! then clean up OUR government and RESTORE OUR CONSTITUTION)
izpizzed,
Yes ma’am. You are an American. A Patriotic American, at that! Welcome to our little corner of the net. Feel free to hang out, if you like
Thank you, Ren…
I USED to be proud to be American, but lately, I have moments of doubt about what, exactly, that means? The America I thought I knew and loved seems to have died with Norman Rockwell. What happened to the America that offered “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me.
I lift my lamp beside the golden door.” Where did all this bigotry and selfishness come from?
I HONOR our Constitution, and deeply resent BushCo’s dismantling of it. I despise BushCo sending our sons and daughters to kill and be killed for their ‘Project for a New American Century’ – google that and ‘A Clean Break’, the Israeli counterpart. I am very afraid for the America my grandchildren will know, and I’m fearful of the Congress that represents AIPAC more than it does We, the people.
It’s a sad comment on America that we send our sons and daughters to occupy a country that we have taught them nothing at all about, with only people like that lousy, hypocritical Major to ‘lead’ them – and no doubt encourage them to believe Iraqi’s are some subhuman species.
Everybody should read the very first literature of the World’s history. Google ‘The Epic of Gilgamesh’. This was at least 2000 + years BEFORE “christianity” and the bible…
Well over 4000 years ago !
It came from Mesopotamia, the Cradle of Civilization.
…. IRAQ !!
Babylon “Gateway of the Gods” was a city of ancient Mesopotamia, the ruins of which can be found in present-day Al Hillah, Babil Province, about 80km south of Baghdad. It was the “holy city” of Babylonia from around 2300 BC (that’s well over 4000 years ago – probably much much more than that!)
Want to know where the Ten Commandments came from?
http://whgbetc.com/ifbm/maat The 42 commandments of Ma’at
It was Hammurabhi who was inspired by God to inscribe THE LAW onto stone – and luckily some of the stones he had placed all around the Middle East still exist in museums – although many have been destroyed by Zionists and Christians who want to believe that All Religion began with themselves.
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/hamcode.html BABYLONIAN LAW–The Code of Hammurabi
Want to understand the AmericanZionist movement? Can’t believe what you hear about Congress’s first loyalty to AIPAC? Want to trace it from it’s beginnings?? http://knud.eriksen.adr.dk/Controversybook/ The Controversy of Zion by DOUGLAS REED
Since you are Athiests, you might be interested in
http://www.rense.com/general18/bible.htm The Bible Unearthed
By Larry Saltzman, a Jew who rejects Zionism.
As I said, I am not an Athiest. I think I am a “Deist” (?) I reject religions, but I do believe in the mysterious ‘force’ – whatever you name It – that force that creates Life – that holds the moon and stars in place, that makes apple trees produce APPLES and never carrots, shrimp, cats, peaches or sheep… I believe in Science, and even Science always has an element of whatever ‘It’ is.
You kids stay safe… and hold on to your Humanity.
izpizzed,
Wow! I think you have found a new home. I wish you were close enough I could hug you. I used to be proud as well, now I’m just afraid. I promise I will be looking into the links you provided, in the morning.
Although we don’t all march in lockstep, (thank goodnes, cause that would be boring)I think you will find that you are in good company.
Please come by often. I think you have a lot to offer. Lastly, you are the first person I have conversed with that claimed Deism. I thought they all died out with our founding fathers.
I also served in Iraq, but during the push and OIF 1 as an enlisted person (Army Combat Engineer). I faced similar abuses of authority regarding religion daily. Amazing very few soldier at my level or below berated my stance, however the leadership very often berated fellow freethinkers and I. Very often there were group led prayers (often by a chaplain), that were considered mandatory while we were at attention in formation. This never gave me or other freethinkers, or even those with different religions the opportunity to avoid such rituals. My platoon leader went as far as saying ?You belong to the army, you have no rights, you will do what I tell you to do, worship what I tell you to worship.. or I will make sure your life is hell?.
Don?t be mistaken in thinking that this mindset is restricted to a theatre of war, it is entrenched in the entire system. Even in basic training; our options on Sunday morning were either go to church, or clean the barracks. I myself had attempted to setup a freethinkers group during that time, with the support of the chaplain. However, it resulted in me and three other soldiers standing at attention for 2 hours in front of drill sergeants who insisted that we were Satanists in disguise.
I find it appalling that we as Americans pride ourselves as being free, and having a separation of church and state, when a single religion is so entrenched in the rituals of the organization that is supposed to protect those ideals. I tip my hat to Kathleen Johnson and any other that shows the moxy to stand up to these figures of authority abusing there privileges. As anyone in the military knows, it is truly intimidating having someone yelling in your face that has the power to make your entire life hell.
BTW: I served my country 9 years, and was honorably discharged, and have not looked back since.
Aeolos,
You have my utmost respect and admiration.
I too remember Sunday mornings in BT. I stayed behind and cleaned the barracks.
Being forced to stand at attention to listen to the Chaplain give his spiel was common. As I gained more rank and was more vocal about my disbelief, I would routinly fall out of and stand in the rear of the formation quietly. I was challenged at times, but never got in trouble.
Once, while I was at Div HQ, I got into a heated, albeit friendly sparring match with a young CPT about God/religion, etc… One of the MAJ’s I worked for (go figure it was a MAJ, what’s up their asses?) came in and told ME to cool it. He didn’t tell US to cool it. Just me.
Oh well, enough of my ramblings. As far as I am concerned, you have earned the right to your opinion, no matter how unpopular it may be with the average schmuck on the street. Freedom is not free. You, sir, paid it forward.
Aeolos,
I meant to ask you; were you a Sapper? I worked with Combat Engineers on a number of occasions over the years. I must say I had a number of misperceptions allayed in the process. I’m especially impressed by the bravery of the Sappers during WWI.
I don’t remember the last time I mentioned my MOS, but I was a Cav Scout. Fun when I was 19. Not so much when I was 29.
Stop me if you’ve seen this before. The ancient looking SSG that walks with a cane and has a P3 profile for the colostomy bag he has hanging off his belt, and you ask him; god damn, sarge, how old ARE you. And he answers 37, why do you ask?
I wish I had a response to that, but the point I am trying to make is that the Army in general, and combat arms in particular, will make you old before your time.
For anyone lurking that is considering a stint in the military… all I can say is: Aim High! U.S. Air Force! They at least take care of their members, even if it takes forever to get promoted.
Keep your head up troop–
The notion of religious bias in the military is nothing new to me. While on active duty at Fort Hood, I became inundated with constant religious rhetoric thrown my way. People would literally go knocking on doors in the barracks at 1-82FA 1CD, ‘inviting’ you to bible study. Pleasant refusals where countered by, in one instance a question of my belief in Satan. Upon informing this individual that I find the idea of Satan preposterous, he told me that my denial was how Satan get through to you. Perplex for a moment on the sheer idiocy in this statement, I started throwing some Elaine Pagels at him as well as the incongruent biblical portrayals of the Devil. Using the story of Job, I used this to show that God would be just as evil if not more for partaking in a wager of faith. Once I told him I was as Atheist, excuse the pun, all hell broke lose. Turns out he was a Senior NCO. Clearly abusing his position, he told me he was notifying my command that I was a heretic, a morale-killer, I was going to hell, and further nonsense that made me laugh so hard, I had tear coming to my eyes. Finally CQ stepped in and told this guy to leave. Since then solicitors were not allowed in the Barracks. That doesn’t seem to stop a committed Christian Fundamentalist. To solve my problem with them from thereon out, I simple sent them down the hall to ‘Dez-E’s’ room. Oh- He was a jet-black haired, eye-liner Goth. Ahhhh! Those memories still bring a smile to my face.
On deployment in ‘98 to Bosnia, I was with a Sergeant First Class, who thought I was great. To him I was smart, capable, and motivated. Then he let me in on a detail on how rated people. He assumptuously stated to me, “Any man who doesn’t hold both God and Country sacred is a piece of shit and can never fully be a good soldier.” At first, I thought he was joking. This guy couldn’t be serious. I smiled and told him that I was in fact an atheist. Am I a bad soldier now? Since then, he treated me like shit he so delicately said I was. Over the months there, I found little religious cards on my desk, made to work on Christmas because ‘atheist don’t believe in Christmas’, and subjected to less than admiral treatment. Never even got an AAM for my efforts.
Point being in this pointless reminiscence it this– Religious folks are out there. They have built stain-glassed houses around themselves that prevent them from seeing reason, science, evidence, or logic. These are the rocks and weapons of all true atheist. Remember my friend. Their world of superstition is in danger. It’s crumbling. If we learn anything from people like Richard Dawkins, Elaine Pagels, or even George Carlin and Penn Gillette, it is this. We have evidence to back up our claims, our theories stand up because we constantly test them to prove our own theories wrong, the bible fails on the basis of historical fact and is literarily laughable. If this guy continues to screw with you tell him this- “You, sir, are an atheist as well. The difference between you and me is that I worship one less God than you.”
I am proud of you, troop. That takes a lot of courage to try to get people involved in a secular organization to discuss the practicality of an atheist life. That officer was out of line just like so many religious folks tend to be. Once we let America become a Christian Nation like they want, get ready for the next Dark Ages. You may not see it now, but this is a small victory that may turn out to be something you look back on fondly and proudly. Thanks and you are not alone!!!
SSG James Roach
Ren,
Yes, I was a sapper 12b, my platoons primary mission during the push was clearing obstacles (aka mines), then during OIF proper we switched to a supply route recon (weight rating bridges, looking for potential danger areas for convoys), then switched to convoy escort duties, and finally spent the last several months looking for and disabling IED?s, in order to keep supply routes open.
Yes, Combat arms is defiantly for the young, and should be left to the kids. When I was 18 I had a blast crawling around doing all the hooah stuff, sleeping in a foxhole, when I was 28 I would wake up stiff from knee injuries and be glad for that warming cup of coffee.
If I could do it all over I would defiantly go Air Force, even seeing those guys in Iraq.. while we were sleeping on the hoods of our trucks, eating mre?s.. those air force guys are kicking back with AC, playing xbox, and eating hot meals 300 meters away.
An update on Spc Hall
Breaking: Jeremy Hall threatened with “fragging” in Iraq
by Shockwave
Fri Sep 21, 2007 at 02:54:55 PM PDT
Atheist whistle blower Army Spec Jeremy Hall has become the target of despicable threats by Dominionist Christians in his own unit.
This from Jason Leopold at Truthout.org;
Friday 21 September 2007
An Army spec. stationed in Iraq said he has been repeatedly threatened by other US soldiers after word spread that he sued the secretary of defense and an Army major this week for allegedly retaliating against the soldier when he convened a meeting of atheists…
Jeremy Hall, 22, who is on active duty at Combat Operations Base Speicher, Iraq, sent an urgent email message to Mikey Weinstein, founder and president of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, whose organization is a co-plaintiff in the lawsuit against the Pentagon. The email said a fellow soldier has threatened to “beat his ass,” called him an “atheist ass pirate” and “a faggot” and enlisted a “lynch mob” of other soldiers to intimidate Hall …
An update on Spc Hall
Update:
The Major’s 1st name is Freddy. He has a public myspace page.
myspace.com/freddywelborn
– I have no more to say.