Germany has banned Tom Cruise from shooting scenes at military sites for his film about a plot to kill Adolf Hitler because the Hollywood actor is a member of the Church of Scientology. Cruise was to play the part of Claus von Stauffenberg, a member of the German nobility who attempted to assassinate Hitler in July 1944. The film, entitled Valkyrie, is due to go on release next year and its makers planned to start shooting in Berlin next month.However, Germany’s Defence Ministry formally banned the actor, who is also one of the movie’s producers, from filming at authentic military sites in the German capital which are central to the movie’s plot.”The film-makers will not be allowed to film at German military sites if Count Stauffenberg is played by Tom Cruise, who has publicly professed to being a member of the Scientology cult,” Harald Kammerbauer, a Defence Ministry spokesman, said yesterday.
Usually I am a big proponent of freedom of religion, and frankly if this were any other religion I’d be upset. But Scientology is NOT a religion — it’s a money-making scheme that CLAIMS to be a religion. It is criminal in nature, ruining lives, and families as it takes their money. I immediately lose respect for any member of this organization — including Cruise, Travolta, and Ally. There is no reason to respect such an organization.Bravo, Germany!
karen: Most of western europe does not recognize scientology as a legitimate religion & it’s banned in some places b/c it’s a cult (ex, the city of Stuttgaart).
It doesn’t get any better than that.
Whether or not he wants to be an idiot should have no effect on where he gets to film a movie. If he were likely to blow something up that was not supposed to be blown up, that would be a problem, but as far as I can tell, he doesn’t intend to do that.
tri:
I disagree completely. Atheism is simply the LACK OF BELIEF in a god or gods. Period. No set of beliefs involved!
mxracer,
Ever been to Clearwater, Florida? My brother lives there so I visit pretty much every summer. It’s home to the scientologists. If you’ve ever seen it then you will realize just how dangerous these people are. The entire city has been taken over by the scientologists. They own a lot of the buildings, houses, apartment buildings, stores, etc. They have one building where no one but scientologists are allowed to go. It really is creepy. Of course Germany is afraid of scientologists in their country. You would be too if you saw Clearwater, Florida. My mother (German growing up in post-war Germany) was actually afraid of the Beatles too because they had such a big following. She said that all the pictures of the Beatles and their fans reminded her of pictures of Hitler and his followers.
Comment from: Tarma
My turn to disagree…as if anyone would of thought differently.
While it’s true atheism doesn’t recognize what other’s would consider a deity, they do have a belief system and a faith system…
Grounded in themselves…atheists have faith in themselves to make the absolute statement that there is no God…believing in themselves, never questioning whether they are right or wrong…but assuming that they know this to be true without any shadow of a doubt…
That is definitely faith and a belief system…
Which is why there is no such thing as “pure atheism”…
As I have also pointed out before there really is no “pure atheism” only strong atheism. However, can you phreedum make a truthful claim that you are a pure atheist in regards to Zeus? What’s your point?
That’s also a strawman that misrepresents the beliefs of every atheist I have read.
Maybe I shouldn’t let this be heard by the little pitcher with big ears, but for as long as I have been monitoring the evolution vs. creation debate, there has been this fervent debate amongst non-theists about atheism and agnosticism and their various flavours and how one should behave toward theists who might be allies in the fight against ID, etc.
I have not seen any atheist declare that he or she has proof that there cannot be a god, nor that if one showed up, that it couldn’t convince them of its deity.
The most one can claim is that there is no evidence and the probability of any god existing is so low that there is no reason to give it any consideration.
Agnostics on the other hand, claim there is no way of knowing. Logically, an agnostic has no fence to sit on. Theist vs. Not Theist is a binary state, like being pregnant or not. Most agnostics live their lives as if they were not theists. Their stance does have the advantage of avoiding some of the unpleasantness the religious have put on the label of atheist.
Atheism is the absence of belief. Which is why there is no such thing as a “pure atheist” as defined for us by our antagonist.
hurrah for germany! i hope they find the courage to go after the muslims next.as for stauffenberg the man was not a hero he was a traitor to his country and he was involved in the black market.he got what he deserved.
killing hitler would not have stopped the war or saved any innocents in the camps.hitler didn’t committ all those crimes by himself.
tri
You are way off. As group atheists have no beliefs.
Phreedy
In regards to your last post. You’re just an idiot. No beliefs. Get it?
No, he doesn’t get, doesn’t want to get it, and will most likely never get it. Wish he’d go peddle his nonsense elsewhere, though. (Sigh)
Stuff like that makes me want to convert to satanism. He would understand that………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….!
Whoops ,I forgot about “Pure Satanism”.
EAC:
I’ve never been to the state, but yes, I am well aware of the cult status of $cientology, thanks to xenu.net.
Does anyone think that the Italian, Chinese, Russian, etc. mafias are cults or religions? Though religions are also criminal organizations, there is a difference.
Germany is right to act to attack the fraudulent Scientology organization. Even more so because it sets up fraudulent drug “treatment” programs and fraudulent “educational” programs.
Before you ever enroll in a private education course, for example language learning, look up the origins of it. Frequently they are fronts for Scientology. They exist for only one reason: bring you to Scientology and empty your bank account.
septos,
LOL!!
Narconon is the name of the drug treatment program that serves as an recruitment device for Scientology. They have fooled many organisations, government and otherwise.
Narcanon was initially refused a state licence by Oklahoma because their program was ineffective and medically unsafe. After a lawsuit in 1983, the state caved and granted an exemption.
Similar controversy surrounds their World Literacy Crusade which gains access to children in schools through reading and drug education programs. Often the targets are unaware of the Scientology link.
These people are sociopaths.
meh, the date was 1992. sorry.
I completely believe Germany has every right not to let him into the country period. They have more freedom of speech than we have. As someone mentioned, nudity will get you in serious trouble in America, and so will a select few words if said in public or on television. I believe in free speech completely, but lies are not free speech, it is fraud. I would like corporations get that in their heads when they advertise. The ID folks are lying too. We saw that in the Penn. trial that it is easily shown to be an outright lie. That is not free speech in my opinion. If it is shown to be a lie, beyond reasonable doubt, then it is not protected. That is how I see it anyway.
Shane,
Germany has more freedom of speech than we do? Please tell me you are joking.
Just to get the facts straight: Tom Cruise is not and will not ever banned from Germany. Neither is Scientology. Actually, they just opened a really big subsidiary right in Berlin.
What the movie makers won’t be able to do is to shoot the movie in the historical place. Not because it’s a memorial or anything, but the former army HQ building where it all happened is now (still) the army HQ building, or better: the ministry of defense. It’s like Oliver Stone wanting to shoot “Armies of the Night” from within the Pentagon. No one needs any excuse to not allow that.
Kamenin, when you put it that way, it makes the movie producers seem like arrogant American Hollywood types who don’t see other nations as being equal to the Greatest Nation on Earth.
It is not a question of freedom of speech.
It is about competition. Germany is not a secular country. The federal administration collects tax for the two churches, religion is being teached in schools, 10 thru 12 religion holidays per yr, creationism as an alternative to biology, the ruling party is the Christian Democratic Union, …
And it is not the money Scientology takes from its members.
Christians regard Scientology as a serious competition these days. Christians regard any other church, sect, cult which they did not endorse as evil. In this case they are right but only by incident.
Scientology never can become as evil as christianity is for already 1500 yrs.
The quote above from the Defence Ministry spokesman seems quite clear that it is Tom Cruise, Scientologist that is persona non grata on any of several military sites.
I hate to say this. My non-American heritage is part German, including my name. I now add Germany to my list of European countries that I will never root for nor ever visit less they retract this rediculous prejudice against one religion but not the other fake ones. Italy is the other one on my list. Likely they will always be on that list.
Ok, sorry for the late reply, but I was busy last couple of weeks.
You believe that god doesn’t exist and that people came around by the process of evolution, don’t you? Even if you don’t, I do, and I’m guessing so do a lot of people – and that kind of puts us in the same group. Those are beliefs to me. Believing in a scientific theory is also a belief.
Personally, I think atheist existentialism fits my belief system fairly well. That may work for others, or it may not.
Look at theists, they can’t even believe in one same god, and don’t agree on the same beliefs. Since those are the only religions which fit the sociological definition, I’m comparing it(atheism) to them. Can’t atheism be divided into groups according to what they believe, say, like christianity? This may be a tu quoque type of mentality(they disagree, then why can’t we too), but no definition of religion ever says that different groups can’t disagree. Religion is just a tool used by people to unite groups with same beliefs, for whatever purposes they feel necessary. And beliefs do vary.
All you need to get a religion is a group of people with the same beliefs(what ever they may be), that meet together on a regular, or irregular, basis. If the group has meetings, it will develop some customs(and rituals – just an example of a ritual: wiping your feet before entering a building). Not only that, but through discussion and repetition the current beliefs will be reinforced and unified. At that point the group becomes a religion by definition.
This post isn’t finished, but I gotta run. Write some more stuff later if I won’t forget.
tri:
A clumsier effort at tu quoque I haven’t seen in a while.
There’s a distinct difference between knowledge-based ‘belief’, as opposed to belief-based knowledge.
I call shenanigans.
That logic makes company picnics, concerts, car clubs, any sort of hobbyist get-together a religion.
I’d advise you actually go & look up any of the words you choose to use – they don’t mean what you want them to mean.
“A word means what I say it means,” – Tweedledum.
Say hey to Tweedledee for me, wouldja?
According to Durkheim, those things indeed can be considered religion, I don’t see what the problem is. All on how serious you(or the member of the community) get about the group.
By definitions of different sociologists, religion can have different purposes(all considered legit) – which was explained to us, that all of these purposes can apply to different religions in varying degrees.
Also, definition of a word as a term in sociology and a regular dictionary can be different.