States are looking into the fact that in some of them there is no process to deny the right of the mentally ill to vote in elections. So there are groups trying to get the mentally ill disenfranchised. That seems to me be opening up a can of worms. Especially if some groups I know of want to be able to determine for themselves who is and who is not capable of voting or understanding the voting process. I mean obviously George Dubya Bush does not understand the process along with Karl Rove and just about all of the other Republican Party officials when they intentionally disenfranchised Democrat Party groups like blacks and jews as they did in Florida in 2000 and Ohio in 2004.If states start determining who is competent to vote, then I want to go after the Republicans. I am pretty sure their core constituent group, the TheoCons are too mentally impaired to vote for sure. I’m interested i what you have to say.Peter Nuhn
DeepDiver,
I’m with you on Ron Paul. I see no one else who even comes close. His book
“A Foreign Policy of Freedom” is a compilation of his writings and speeches since the 70′s. The only congressman who doesn’t vote against the constitution.
Bilge
As for everyone who is of legal age having the right to vote…
Let’s say you live in a closed community…and everyone has to pay $500 per year dues…
Mr. Phreedm hasn’t paid anything for the past 7 years…but due to local laws, they can not force him to sell his property…
When it comes time for this closed community to vote on how to spend the money…should Mr. Phreedm have a voice…?
Comment from: reason
AGREED…!!!
Thank you ACLU…
Man, how can Phreedy actually think that which he writes?
Phreedy
You ignorant fool. You can thank your Ronald Reagan for that.
TXaethist:
I am so depressed! On the surface, he seemed to support the Constitution but upon further research, he is convinced that the U.S. is a Christian Nation. He does not seem to feel that there should be a separation of church and state. Damn, I am bumbed out. I thought he was smart. Still reviewing to see if this is all true.
Alex:
Literacy test: Until such time when the US has an official language, a literacy test makes no sense. Is not feasible that someone who does not speak fluent English would still be able to make an informed decision in an election? The fact is that there are numerous non-English news outlets in this country, and English is not the only language spoken here.
(I also think that establishing English as the official language of the US is at its heart racist. It’s quite possible that in the future there may be more native Spanish speakers than English speakers in this country, and I say if that happens, then so be it. I think there are very many white people though who are scared to lose their cultural dominance and would rather impose it on their posterity, whether they like it or not. I don’t assume that that’s how you feel… I’m just sort of clarifying my position on the subject.)
IQ test: Why an IQ test? Have you taken one of these things lately? Basically all they do is measure how well you do on IQ tests. Read The Mismeasure of Man, by Stephen Jay Gould, for a pretty thorough debunking of IQ tests, and intelligence tests in general.
And besides, how would you propose to define how stupid is too stupid to vote? What sort of general intelligence test can determine how “good” you are at voting?
High school diploma, or equivalent: Any standard of education will be highly arbitrary and inherently unfair. I happened to go to a very good high school (one of the best in my state) that was just a mile or so from one of the worst high schools you could imagine. It’s not uncommon for kids to graduate from high school not even being able to read. A high school diploma or equivalent is just highly arbitrary and random. And that’ll be true regardless where you put the standard (unless the educational system in the US is drastically altered. Don’t hold your breath on that one.)
Proof of citizenship: I agree with you here.
Poll tax: What possible justification can there be for a poll tax other than to eliminate those who can’t afford to vote? That it precisely the reason why the practice was outlawed by the 24th amendment.
In summary, of course there are many people who vote who are not particularly well informed. But that’s far better than prohibiting people from voting using tactics that are likely to be abused. Poll taxes and literacy test were outlawed precisely because they were being abused. Shouldn’t we learn from our own history. I take heart at least that there’s no chance they’ll be returning any time in the near future.
arkansas is right out
AC
Literacy Test: If you are going to live in the USA you must speak English in order to conduct business and be a part of the culture. Immigrants must adapt to our culture and language and not the other way around. Earlier today I had to use sign language and waste fifteen minutes of my life in order to find a product in a grocery store because the Third World woman working the checkout did not understand English at all. Not one word. Tomorrow I am going in to complain to management and ask that she be reassigned to a job that requires no interaction with the public until she learns English or that she is terminated. This is not the first time that I have been unable to conduct business at this particular store due to a language barrier.
IQ Test: Becasue I don’t want idiots determining the course of my country’s future. I propose a minimal score of 100 which is the national average IQ score. Trust me, average is stupid.
High School Diploma: You make a point about not all high schools having equal standards thus making the acquisition of some diplomas less valid than others. This requirement, along with the IQ requirement, will go a long way in eliminating the stupidest and most ignorant from voting and influencing national policy.
Proof of citizenship: This should be obvious and require no explanation. However there are far left bleeding hearts who would give the vote to illeagle immigrants.
Poll tax: If you can’t afford to pay $10-20 every four years then how could you possibly be qualified to make decisions that impact everyone’s lives. Come back when you have a job and you will be welcome to vote.
Alex
I think your tests wreak of xenophobia.
Alex,
For the poorest of the poor, those who deserve the largest voice since they are almost always the most effected in pretty much any decision, $10-20 is a lot of money. But hey, if you want to take food out of their kids’ mouths because you think that those living in the worst conditions yet most effected by any political action don’t deserve a voice unless they show the cash, go ahead.
IQ tests to determine who could vote? You gotta be kidding me! Here’s a scenario-One mother whose home I go to has been determined to be mildly mentally retarded. She struggles to read and write. She has a speech impediment that she has (to her great dismay) passed on to her children. Math is like a foreign language to her. Perhaps she shouldn’t vote? She couldn’t begin to take an IQ test.
BUT, here’s what she can do. She’s an excellent cook who frequently devises her own receipies. Her husband is a trucker-gone for up to 3 weeks at a time. She cares for her children single-handedly. Even though the school environment scares her, she fights for the academic rights of her children without hesitation. She teaches her children out of primary readers, and follows up on the recommendations of educators. She devises new games to aid in the speech development of her children (some I use for other families). She pays all the bills and maintains her home with very little assistance from her family. She protects her children from danger zealously.
Here’s the question-should she be excluded from the polls because she’s MMR?
Also, we must be careful where we tread in the area of mental disorders. How many people in this country are on psychotropic meds? Those who are not on these meds may be tempted to judge those who are as mentally inferior. Now there’s a slippery slope!
And another one-why should a person convicted of possession of marijuana (and similar non-violent crimes) be considered unfit to vote? That’s ridiculous.
And certainly speaking a foriegn language shouldn’t exclude voters, unless were no longer the melting pot and have morphed into a superiority-by-English society so we can effectively look down our noses at those uncivilized ruffians who only speak Spanish. Our English language gives us the right to judge? I think not, but of course I also know that Mexicans are not our enemies.
Unbelievable.
So we’re going to have a geniocracy now? How socially Darwinist.
& Alex? You getting fitted for a brownshirt pretty soon?
cry4turtles: “And certainly speaking a foreign language shouldn’t exclude voters, unless we’re no longer a melting pot . . . “
___________________________________
Come on now. How can you vote responsibly and not be able to so much as ask for simple directions??
Still, I would allow non-English speaking people to vote IF they are legal citizens, although I agree with Teddy Roosevelt that every immigrant should be speaking English within 5 years or leave the country. It worries me tremendously that we now have some 12 or 14 million ILLEGALS in the country, some of whom are no doubt voting.
Cry4turtles also says that Mexicans are not our enemies. This point is certainly open to question in as much as American blood has been shed any number of times to protect the freedoms and benefits we enjoy in this country yet Mexicans flood over out borders illegally every single day and then feel perfectly free to fly the Mexican flag on American soil.
Theodore Roosevelt said it best, so again:
?We should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. This is predicated upon the person?s becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American . . . There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn?t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag . . . We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language . . . and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”
DeepDiver,
Sorry, I was excited about RP at first too but I can’t screw the poor to pay 5-10% less in taxes. It’s not in me.
“with Karl Rove and just about all of the other Republican Party officials when they intentionally disenfranchised Democrat Party groups like blacks and jews as they did in Florida in 2000 and Ohio in 2004.”
And Phreedm said “Back this up”
Honestly! How could anyone NOT know about the Caging Lists!! Let me guess–you don’t know about Kathleen Harris’s or even about the Diebold Machines, do you? As a matter of fact, just a week or so ago, Monica Goodling (you do know who she is right?) mentioned during her testimoney that caging lists were used. Unfortunatley, Congress didn’t press her the way they should have, they were going after other information. But at least Greg Palast (I know, you don’t know who he is either) will be going to Congress, as he has over 500 pages of the Caging Lists that Karl Rove used. If you’d like to know more I suggest you do some research.
I have to say, you’re contributions on this and other posts lead me to believe you’re just a 13yr old wanker, who’s bored and takin a piss around here. People take the time to give you solid researchable answers and you take the dumber-than-a-bucket-of- rocks approach every time. It’s very wearing.
I agree that some people in this country are better off not voting, but the ability to exclude certain groups of people from voting is a power that can and has been abused
GodFree, everybody has a right to their opinion (even Teddy). I base my opinion on the Mexian people I’e known. They were just like me, hope, dreams, and all. And I must say it’s a white man’s law that says if you take 3 steps in a certain direction, you’re a criminal. And those 12 to 14 million would be paying taxes if we had a decent taxation system in this country (Fair Tax).
Also, 90% of communication is non-verbal. I’ve never had a probles communication with foreigners when there was a language barrier. But maybe that’s because communication is my business. Maybe there should be a Speech Pathologist at each poll?
cry4turtles,
I think the reason why many americans view speaking to foreigners who don’t speak absolutely fluent english as annoying and difficult is because americans believe english to be the only “intelligent” language in the world and those who don’t know it are clearly stupid. (Plus, most americans hear a foreign accent and immediately feel superior. Ugh. This coming from someone with a foreign accent.) The truth is that english is one of the most difficult second languages to learn because it has so many rules not just for each letter or letter combo but each word. Think about it, pronunciation changes a lot from word to word even if the letter combo is the same. Plus, there are a lot of sounds in english that most languages just don’t use at all, making it difficult to learn. In my opinion, german is one of the easiest languages to learn, but then again I do have a bias.
Funny story. My father is highly educated, doctorate in chemistry, went to a top university in Europe, was very excellent in his class, etc., yet his english isn’t perfect, though he tries very very hard. A neighborhood woman, some dumb redneck who probably didn’t finish high school, was actually shocked that a person who isn’t perfect at speaking english could be that intelligent.
evilatheistconquerer,
Come on, everyone knows god speaks english.
“A neighborhood woman, some dumb redneck who probably didn’t finish high school, was actually shocked that a person who isn’t perfect at speaking english could be that intelligent.”
Ignorance at it’s finest.
Why should mentally unfit be denied the right to vote when so many mentally unfit continue to serve in public office? Another double standard?
I’m all for it!!
Well we know that all theists are delusional. Belief in an imaginary Omni-Omni being…. well really!
If you are delusional you are mentally ill.
Ergo… Theists shouldn’t be allowed to vote.
Simple… like them.