Arizona and Utah have so many polygamists that the Republican state Attorneys General for those two states have stated they will not prosecute child rapists anymore. Better yet, get this. “We are not going to go out there and persecute people for their beliefs,” said Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard. Then Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff stated: “We determined six or seven years ago that there was no way we could prosecute 10,000 polygamists and put the kids into foster care. There’s no way that we have the money or the resources to do that.” Ain’t it funny how they found the money and resources to arrest, prosecute and jail a couple of million black people for dope, but arresting, prosecuting and jailing 10,000 white child rapists is just too difficult for these Republican law and order type Attorneys General.Forcing little girls to marry an old man just for the sex of it is what passes for religion in this country? And remember, Utah wouldn’t even be a state if it hadn’t outlawed polygamy. I just love the way some religious leaders think they can pick and choose the secular laws they want to observe, the same way they pick and choose the moral lessons they like in the KJV.This goes hand in hand with my previous posting about the Rhode Island Catholic Bishop who doesn’t think he needs to observe the IRS code. What gives with these people?Peter Nuhn
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I see how this works now. If there are enough of you (law breakers), then there will be no down side to breaking the law. Neat-O!
So how strong are our numbers, gang? And what illegal activity shall we take up? I’m not sure I could get into murder, rape or some such violence, but there are other possibilities. Anybody for bank robbery? Better yet, let’s figure out some white-collar crime. The prisons are a little nicer I hear and what with us being atheists we might not get off so easy as child rapists or illegal aliens.
Wow…they aren’t going to prosecute child rapists anymore…
I guess they’ve been following the lead of public education…
Oh wait…it’s only rape when it’s a girl…
Now I understand why Colorado city Texas won’t go after polygamists but Tulia TX arrested half of the black men for false charges of drug trafficking. Which leads me to ask which is worse, non-violent drug use or rape? I guess it’s not about race after all because polygamists are just as likely to be black as drug users. (sarcasm)
“Oh wait…it’s only rape when it’s a girl…”
Is that what you keep telling yourself. That and “Gawd will forgive me.”.
???? I read the second entry before I saw the name and was like, what the f is this guy talking about ???? Then I saw phreedies name. That explains alot.
When, exactly, was the public education system charged with prosecuting child rapists?
Maybe you should blame your local prosecutor, you idiot.
Gawd, your drivel is becoming unbearable.
Are you saying that all polygamists are child molesters?
That doesn’t even make sense.
TXatheist
Good point. Thanks for the sarcasm alert.
Justice is really f’d up in the USA. Yes it has always been to some degree but these last six years have set new records. I think it is about to the point where many people are going to start asking themselves serious questions about why should they obey the laws.
We all know now that it is OK to kill 100s of thousands of Iraqis and displace millions despite no significant threat from Iraqis. Oh well, whoops. We all know now that it is OK for CEOs to mislead investors and employess about the financial health of a corporation while the business disintegrates under the burden of cooked books all the while negotiating a golden parachute for you and you alone. We all know now that it is just fine for big oil traders to engage in engineering a fuel crisis for the sake of overcharging states for energy. The freaking list goes on and on and on …
Yet for the rest of us, just try dodging all the fines resulting from illegally parking and see what happens. Without doubt you will can expect to be dealt with far more severly and with far less respect than G.W. Bush and the rest of the corporate dictators have been afforded.
What,
I agree that white collar crimes are tolerated but poor people get poor representation in our system of (in)justice.
TX
They get terrible representation all the while giving get out of jail free cards to the worst among us not just for white collar crime but for murder.
TX
Oh and I really object to this notion, sold to us by the filthy rich, that white collar crime is somehow not as dangerous to our society as what is typically called violent crime. It is far worse and these bastards should be locked up in the deepest darkest prisons.
TX
I realized that one of my previous comments was hastely written and could be misinterpreted so I will rewrite it here:
The poor get terrible representation in our society. All the while our society gives get-out-of-jail-free cards to the worst among us not just for white collar crime but for murder.
Looks like Mitt Romneys candidacy is shedding a lot of unwelcome light opon the behaviors of mormons. Good they certainly deserve it.
I just realized what the fuck phreedm was talking about earlier in this post. He was talking about the female schoolteachers that were found to be having affairs with their students. Well guess what phreedm. Those women were all prosecuted and had to serve time. These disgusting bastards that rape little girls are being let off the hook in this case that Peter is referring to. So how exactly is what you said a good comparison at all? And also, female teachers aren’t the only ones that go after students. Male teachers do as well. We just don’t hear about those as much, now do we? Just another example of how you can do whatever the fuck you want so long as you are a white male christian.
Phreedm,
As a public schoolteacher (Pre-K, at that…and an atheist…shocking)and a female, I can assure you that there is more accountability in my profession than in the churches. You can go online and find my salary scale, my test scores, my education,my students’ progress, my REQUIRED background check…everything is disclosed, including where I live and what I do on weekends. We even have to sign a contract with a “moral turpitude” clause which means that I cannot ever hope to moonlight as a stripper (hey, Pre-K teachers need the $$$$). No two-bit pastor demonstrates as much accountability to the public as I do. I am much more afraid of the local pastor/priest who can be whisked away to another country through organized networks of crime (ie,Roman Catholic Church)than the run-of-the-mill schoolmarm. Churches do not cooperate with the law and they get a free pass. Period.
PS I find your insinuation extremely insulting.
Barbie
Phreedy can’t help it. He possesses less-than-average intelligence and is so fearful of the “powerful” that he wont fight for his self-interests. So to escape his glaring inadequacies he just turns his vote and voice over to a church. It’s really little else than what is referred to as the Stockholm Syndrome or “indentifying with one’s captors”.
Comment from: Barbiebrains
Awwww…I know the truth hurts…but don’t blame me…blame those who share your profession…
http://www.sesamenet.org/miller.html
Phreedy
She has a profession!
Comment from: evilatheistconquerer [Member]
Surprise…you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about…
And these are the ones that have gotten caught…mark my words…this scandle is in it’s infancy…
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50447
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48421
So tell me…are all 1esbian’s rapists? Of course not…but you don’t see me making the same comparison that the “bomb throwers” thread makes…
The “Church of Later Day Saints” is a cult branch of an earlier cult which branched off an earliere cult.
I say the tree is rotten and should be uprooted and left to rot. First by making them follow the law and by taxing them.
I am sure knowledge will eventually win out against ignorance and the roots will wither and the tree of religion will fall on its own though.
The live forever egotists will hold on till the bitter end though as the alternative is infinite torture in their eyes.
It is rather curious that the xtians are shredding the very freedom of religion that has allowed them to exist in the first place.
Keep it up Pheedom you are doing a great job making the case that the bible is another branch of the tree of deception.
Peter, why can’t we start our own threads on this blog to discuss other topics of concern to athiests (and the world in general) instead of just being limited to discussing things that are particularly relevant to American Atheists. The great majority on this blog have already freed themselves from religious tyranny. Give us a chance to debate more pressing issues than the existence or non existence of the big G, please. I would like to think the more open this blog becomes the more problems we can address and hopefully the more rational and realistic of ideas (which don’t rely on myth) will garner respect and support from others.
Phreedm,
Truth never hurts. Your weird conclusions are insulting. Period. My profession is an admirable one (requires a college degree) and I am proud to serve my community along with other colleagues who strive to make a positive impact. Ms. Miller is more interested in being on Geraldo and Good Housekeeping than protecting children…Her motives are suspect and who the hell has ever heard of her organization? Open Sesame? Mamma On A Mission? I repeat: “Educators are Under Scrutiny. Churches are Not. Background checks in churches are VOLUNTARY. Background checks in public schools are OBLIGATORY.” Pedophiles prefer to stalk children in churches. Oh, and read the fine print on the website…Ms. Miller puts it at the bottom, instead of at the top:
“Deliberate false accusations against teachers are reprehensible, cause untold damage, and may constitute a crime.”
The forum is right about you. Nuff said, I won’t debate with you.
What: Stockholm Syndrome…I should have listened
One more thing…
A collection of child molesters in churches…Background checks are VOLUNTARY because religious folks can be trusted, right?…
http://www.reformation.com/
@ original topic:
This is crazy! And something should be done about these prosecuters. Yes, yes, we all know that “fighting crime” is mentally exhausting and can seem pointless, another appears for every scum-bag that’s put away, we’ve all seen law and order.
That doesn’t mean we should put up with prosecuters who say “we give up, fuck it!”
I’ll admit that it’s complicated. do we still allow members of the native american church to take peyote? I’d say yes. but there is a distinction between victimless crimes and victimizing crimes, this has to be recognised.
It’s even worse than that. AZ classifies hispanic, many are illeagle aliens, and black sex offenders as being white:
http://az.gov/webapp/offender/absconders.do?pageIndex=1
I wonder why they do this?
Wonderful point. It has always astounded me that, during election time, Sheriff candidates elect to put “Republican”/”Democrat” on their signs. What’s the point? The law is the law, and they don’t have a choice whether or not they want to enforce the law. That’s their JOB! – Thoughtsic.com
They are worried about paying for foster care? That’s the excuse they are using? They don’t need foster families. The kids can live with the mothers just like they are already doing.
Many of those polygamist kids are on welfare. The state is paying for them anyway. Leave the kids at home since the state already pays support.
Arrest the men who knock up underage girls. The money would be about the same because the dad doesn’t pay for all the kids anyway. The polygamists set it up so the majority of wives are not legally married and get state and federal services. (Your taxes at work.)
Isolated brainwashed uninformed girls (or boys) who don’t know any other situation should not be allowed to marry until they are 18. They can’t possibly be consenting adults as teenagers.
Polygamy is such an ugly problem because the children are isolated in their religious beliefs. People want the right to teach their children their religion. They protect the children from ever being able to make an informed decision. Religious people spend a lot of time and effort fighting to prevent their children from being influenced by outside information.
This is an example of the downside of religious freedom. They remain in willful ignorance. Anything they want to do can be justified with their religion.
I don’t think religion should continue to get special treatment which allows it to get away with brainwashing children.
Phideaux
Well stated. I don’t anybody who I would have considered to be an adult at the age of twenty five let alone 18. Of the few people that I know that would disagree with such a statement most still behave like children – impulsive decision making. One has to be seriously deluded (ie a believer) to think that a teenage girl could actually be informed enough about what marriage is to consent to it.
alexatheist, at your site several of the guys are apparently charged with “sexual contact with a minor” or even “attempted”.
Now that is pretty vague. Maybe it is assault and maybe it is not. A minor could be a child or someone of 16 or 17. The offender could be 18. and have a minor lover. Was coercion involved, or is it statutory rape?
A couple of the guys were about 30. How old were they when they committed their alleged offense?
To reiterate what phideux says,
” It’s almost impossible to find hard statistics about polygamy, because plural marriages are rarely documented. Many Mormon fundamentalist sects are closed communities that shun contact with non-members. So it’s difficult to determine the frequency of abuses such as marrying minors, marriages between close relatives or physical and sexual abuse. However, a wealth of anecdotal evidence suggests that these abuses often occur.
In addition to such traumatic abuses, people who have left (or, in their words, “escaped”) polygamist families point out that the structure of such families crushes female independence. Husbands are absolute authorities, and wives and children are completely subservient to them. Because wives are so dependent on their husband and the other wives, they often lack the life skills to live on their own. This makes it especially difficult to leave. In addition, many polygamist wives were born and raised in polygamist families. They have been in the polygamist lifestyle from birth, so they have a hard time seeing a way out.”
http://people.howstuffworks.com/polygamy1.htm
So it is hardly a question of free choice for the women. Polygamists largely resemble pimps and rapists.
However, it is not part of Mormon doctrine. From the same link,
“The Book of Mormon itself does not contain specific information about polygamy. However, Smith began to practice polygyny in the 1830s and secretly told his “inner circle” that he had received a revelation: a man should take multiple wives in order to become a king in Heaven. He pointed to Old Testament figures like Solomon and Jacob as examples. Although his polygyny became well-known and contributed to the persecution of Mormons, Smith never publicly acknowledged the practice, and it wasn’t official church doctrine.”
Mormonism, generally speaking and especially because of polygamy, is a perfect example of the down side of religious freedom. Even the choice between imposed religious belief and religious freedom leaves much to be desired it would seem. The only sensible road is atheism, where magical thinking is non-existant and excuses for deviant behaviour cannot be justified.
Comment from: GodFree&Glad
Why…?
The article states that these people are well educated and that they are against “forcing” young girls into marriage…
If this is true…on what grounds is polygamy wrong…?
I suggest that the entire reason why they are becoming bolder and more open about their arrangements IS because of the changes within the US about defining marriage…
They are also challenging all of us to accept “their” definition of marriage…
Comment from: Barbiebrains
Thank you for making my point…
I agree with you…most teachers are good and would never think about having sex with a student. Yet we all know a very small number have…
I’m wondering why you do not give the same consideration to the churches…? You’re doing exactly what you’re accusing me of doing…
What study are you citing that proves churches as the favorite choice of Pedophiles…or is this merely your own personal opinion…?
Reluctantly responding to phreedm who said:
“The article states that these people are well educated and that they are against “forcing” young girls into marriage…
If this is true…on what grounds is polygamy wrong…?”
First of all, people in a religious cult like fundy Mormons are not well educated in real liberal arts, critical thinking and scientific theory. They are schooled from the cradle to the teenage marriage within the religious system for the most part.
Here is the criteria I feel should be required for marriage: INFORMED CONSENTING ADULTS.
This would rule out most polygamous marriages because they are not adults nor informed. Their consent is there, but only because they are brainwashed.
This would rule out any kind of child marriages.
This would rule out the ridiculous claims that legalizing gay marriage would lead to people marrying a dog or tree.
If people can demonstrate they are adults, deemed informed and consenting by the law, I say let them unite in any form people want.
It’s the brainwashing and child protection I am concerned about. I don’t care what one woman and 5 men do (my dream
or what the nice gay couple is doing. I just want families who responsibly take care of their children. I resent paying for polygamists to hog the gene pool when I made the effort to stop at two kids. I resent my gay brother in law and his partner not having the same rights I do.
The informed consenting adults criteria would weed out the abuse of marriage yet allow freedom of diversity. Unfortunately the unchallenged tentacles of religion make it very difficult to genuinely have an informed young adult who can make decisions outside of what his religion teaches. That’s why we should at least make sure they are legal adults before we allow religion to influence their choices.
Phreedm,
Granted, not all pastors/priests, etc., are pedophiles. Pedophiles seek access to children and will find ways into churches, schools, Boy Scouts, etc. The difference is that public schools have measures of accountability (we are paid by the taxpayers and we are civil servants)that many churches do not because of either naivete (it can’t happen among us) or complete denial. Insurance companies have forced churches to face the reality of pedophilia and adopt necessary background checks. The Catholic church is one example of a religious institution run amok and mocking the very laws of this country with its coverup of horrendous crimes. Their track record in the Third World is even more obscene. I don’t have stats on priests vs public school teachers…but I know where I’d place my bets.
Phreedm,
PS…I also believe that ANY public school employee who abuses a child should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Gender is no excuse. R*pe is r*pe. Incidentally, we are warned not to hug our kids, give them a pat on the back or even shake hands. My colleagues are very aware of false accusations and letting a five-year-old give you a hug or letting him/her hug another classmate on their birthday could land you in jail.
phree
yeah because the church did everything it could to put those priests who rapped young children in jail !!!! They just move them to another church far away and wipe it under the pews !!!!
Phreedm,
I still haven’t been able to make sense of your desire to link the responsibility of prosecuting pedophiles discovered in public education to the school system.
Talk about misplaced blame.
If you want these people sentenced to the full extent of the law, then you should be sending letters to your local justice officials.
If your trying to establish a link by correlating these crimes with those of priests in the catholic church (as if there is some sort of double standard between churches and public schools) – sorry no cigar. I haven’t heard of a single school district relocating a teacher to another school once they discovered the teacher was molesting his/her student(s).
The double standard is a social one. A male teacher rapes or commits statutory rape against a female student and he?ll almost certainly go to prison. A female does so, and she may not get any jail time. That?s the double standard. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TEACHERS OR THE PUBLIC EDUCATION SYSTEM.
i hope the voters in these two states will step up and elect candidates who will uphold the law.
furthermore the federal gov’t should hold up money unless those states crackdown on these people.there is a report out that because of inbreeding polygamists have a high rate of mental retardation.
phideaux, “It’s the brainwashing and child protection I am concerned about.”
The following is not about polygamy, but it is about brainwashing.
http://www.cefepa.net/main2/urban.html
This xian douchebag says,
“I learned that I must not just preach the Gospel, but I must “draw the net” as Jesus taught when we “fish for men.” During my evangelism training in Summer Missionary Training School, I led my first person to Christ, little William Avery, age 9, there on the streets of Harrisburg on Market Street after learning how to “draw the net” of souls to Christ at CEF OF EASTERN PA. “
Obviously a predator of children. He continues,
“I also learned that the greatest preachers in the world aim for the children. Dr. Mable Ruth Wray always said that if I was to be blessed of God and succeed in the ministry, I must put priority on preaching the Gospel to children. She gave me a book once demonstrating this, authored by the Prince of Preachers, Charles Haddon Spurgeon, called “Feed my Lambs.” I have been greatly influenced by this book.”
These perverts seem to be too discouraged to try to convert possibly thinking adults.