Camp Quest was specifically designed for children of agnostics,atheists, brights, freethinkers, humanists, Unitarians, or whatever terms might be applied to those who maintain a naturalistic, not supernaturalistic, world view. Our campers are girls and boys ages 8-17. Our 2007 camp will be July 8 – 15 at Camp Watanda (about 70miles north of Sacramento, in the California Gold Country). Seecampquestwest.org for details.Please direct info requests to the Camp Director, Chris Lindstrom at:(650) 949-3192 campdirector@campquestwest.org
I did it last year, and I’ll be doing it again this year. It’s a great experience and the bugs aren’t that bad. Please consider this wonderful experience, alone or with your kid.
Phreeidiot
Why would I care that all the sheep think the bible is gods word actually makes me feel better that I do nto agree with the majority of idiots in this world. Thanks for the reassurance. Dont you have to catch up to the flock you SHEEP.One day you should try thinking on your own instead of a book doing it for you.
phreedm you silly person…i realize that you are a plant here, as your sweeping statements and their little examples are not the ideas of anyone with anything really to say…fess up…which atheist group put you up to this??…come on …you know you want to come clean so you can sleep better…don’t live the lie any longer, it isn’t healthy…spill the beans…
My son is only 3 but everyone I know that attended CQ has said it’s great.
there is a difference between teaching WHAT to think and HOW to think…reason is what indoctrination steals; rationalism(not rationalising) and freethought give it back.If phreedm can give an example to the contrary as concerns camp quest…i’ll change my opinion. IT’S SHOWTIME!
Someone named “What” wrote:
“Well I wouldn’t send my children to CQ of the type you suggest. I want to expose my children to the nondeluded members of our society. If I want to expose them to the religiously deluded I could do that anywhere, anytime, and I wouldn’t have to pay for it. Get it?”
You didn’t read my comment clearly. I said the organizers and presenters could all be of the naturalistic mindset and purpose, why then limit participants based on their belief? Why give a religious test for those who want to sign-up and attend and learn from your wisdom? Why isn’t it your very hope to reach those who are “wrong”? You only want to create a program for those who already have the belief? That is what the original post said:
“Camp Quest was specifically designed for children of agnostics,atheists, brights, freethinkers, humanists, Unitarians, or whatever terms might be applied to those who maintain a naturalistic, not supernaturalistic, world view.”
…Bernie of FreeGoodNews.com
Krystalline said:
“Likewise, I’d feel terribly out of place at a Lamaze class, or a woman’s retreat, or joining a children’s summer camp (being a grown man & all).”
You wouldn’t be out of place at a Lamaze class if your spouse was in it; you do it as a couple. A women’s retreat is for developing women, so of course a man shouldn’t go. A children’s camp is for kids, so of course a man shouldn’t go.
However, if the camp, as yours, is primarily for education, then I’d think your target should be the most “uneducated.” Instead, you have the target as those who already have the belief. Think about it- I’m actually giving you friendly advice so you can be more effective at your agenda. Why? Because I’m not worried. I think education is a good thing. I think seeking truth is a good thing. I think comunication among those who think differently is a good thing.
…Bernie of FreeGoodNews.com
APBio said:
“But if you are referring to the societies in which a majority of the population believes in a deity (USA) vs societies in which a majority of the population is secular (Sweden, Japan, etc.) then you need to check the statistics. More religious societies FAR outnumber secular societies in ALL levels of crime (murder, rape, theft, etc.)”
Sweden and Japan are not secular any more than America is. Here is their population belief:
Sweden:
Lutheran 87%, other (includes Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Baptist, Muslim, Jewish, and Buddhist) 13%
Japan:
Observe both Shinto and Buddhist 84%, other 16% (including Christian 0.7%)
Sources:
Sweden:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/sw.html
Japan:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ja.html
…Bernie of FreeGoodNews.com
bdehler
There is no religious test for attending Camp Quest. If you have children and you would like them to attend then I am sure the organizers would have no problem with that. But you will have to sign a registration form containing the following statement:
“there are three kinds of lies:lies,damned lies, and statistics”….benjamin disraeli or mark twain or somebody else.So some person believes that sweden and iran are both religious countries…one is not more “secular” than the other…based on numbers?????? I just can’t take this kind of (il)logic…i need a toke ..right now
bdehler
You said that I did not clearly read your comment then you post a reiteration showing that I did read it clearly. Of course this is level of clarity of thought that I expect from xians that we must deal with daily. It’s nice to give the kids a break from it … dont’ you think?
Phreedy
Read Imaskeptic’s reply. He nicely made clear that indoctrination is the opposite of what is done at QC. It is a well known tactic of the religious to change the accepted meaning of words to fit their arguments.
Someone called “What” said:
“Well I wouldn’t send my children to CQ of the type you suggest.”
Why not? Did I suggest a change in content? No. The only suggestion I made was that it should be open to participants of any faith. I don’t think you understood that; that’s why I said you didn’t read my comment clearly.
Apparently it is open to all children, and the original quote from the announcements at the start of this thread was misleading. Apparently, the program was designed for the kids of naturalists, but enrollment is not limited to them (per rainbows4dinosaurs’s post).
By the way, I think it is an excellent outreach to do for your group.
Some people think that “learning” and “fun” are mutually exclusive; but I think it’s good to instill the “love of learning” into kids, and show them the beauty of creation.
…Bernie of FreeGoodNews.com
What,
I am neither a writer nor a reporter…just a public school teacher (elementary/pre-K) working towards my masters in library science…My fascination with religion stems from a morbid sense of humor, I have no problem joining the ranks/taking a baptism in order to get photographs and material…Baptist churches are a source of entertainment…I am constantly in search of the religious kitsch… Velvet Jesus statuettes, anyone?:)
bdehler all those kids have to do is look at the nature around them and they will see the beauty of natural creation.
phreedm you are a heretic and blasphemer.would a god of love want his servant to speak in his name as you do.do you ever have anything positive to say to or about atheists.i can respect a true christian because there is love in their hearts but your faith is hollow.you are one of the many who pretend to be christian.your christianity is nothing more than an insurance policy.
bdehler:
I meant going there alone – sorry, wasn’t clear.
rainbows already addressed most of that.
Note that atheism is a lack of belief, not really a belief system per se.
phreedm i came down hard on you not because i think your a bad person but because you know better.you know as well as i do that the powers that be don’t give a hoot what atheists or conservative christians think.we just have to try and be moral people and encourage each other to be good people.drugs flood our society kids exposed to sex, worship of money.atheists and christians don’t need to fight each other.
Barbie
Well I hope you write about your adventures. The Jesus-of-the-Week site would happen to be yours would it? If fot have you seen it at:
http://www.jesusoftheweek.com/
Krystalline said:
“Note that atheism is a lack of belief, not really a belief system per se.”
I disagree. I’ve been listening to quite a few Atheist podcasts. Technically, what you say may be true. Practically, however, I think the “bold Atheists” (those most vocal) have a strong “belief” (since it can’t be proved either way) that there is no God.
There’s a big difference between “lack of a belief” and “belief that there is no God.” In fact, I would say that it is virtually impossible to have a “lack of belief.” Everyone has a belief, whether it is in a God, no god(s), etc. I don’t believe there is any such thing as a “null” belief, except for the person who is undecided. I think very few are undecided. I think most are decided, but maybe don’t want to admit it.
I know a person who was a Christian, then left the faith. This person said (unknowingly falsely) that they no longer have a belief. However, in more discussion and follow-up, it became evident that this person does have a belief system, and it could be called “secular humanism.” They agreed when faced with this information.
My point: I think it is an error if someone goes around thinking they “have no beliefs.” Maybe a person gets that way because they just dumped a belief system that they were defending, and don’t want to have to go through that again. However, to grow, I think one must always test their belief system, as a matter of maturity. We all start at different places, but if we love the truth and seek it, we should all eventually get to the same place.
…Bernie of FreeGoodNews.com
oh,please!!! me asking you to prove that your god exists…then waiting patiently while you fail to do so, does not mean i practice a religion!!! me stating there are no flying pigs does not mean i am in a no-flying-pig religion!!! this line of reasoning is just silly(but not funny)
As a christian who has been on this blog, I can tell you my experience is that “bold atheists” are the ones who are tired of having theism thrust upon them. I think they “believe” they are tired of people using flimsy rhetoric with them. Over the last two years, I’ve listened on this blog and have found that we, as christians, have some work to do on ourselves before we start telling atheists that their ideas are the same as our beliefs. Faith and reason are different things. Don’t blur them. I have faith their is a god, but I don’t equate that to someone reasoning that if god cannot be proven (or even ideas about a loving god can be proven) then god does not exist.
A belief system is different than secular humanism. Simply because you see the world through a belief system (much like I do) doesn’t mean you should force your own understanding of life on other people. Listen before you come to conclusions. Simply because you have a conversation with one person one time about atheism does not mean you have it all neatly tied up.
I too think one must test their faith to grow. Equating atheism to faith is false, so your point should be more about yourself and other christians than atheists. One should also listen before making assumptions so that their intellect and empathy can grow.
their is a god = there is a god
I think Atheism is a belief system, and can be called a religion, because it touches on religious matters. For example, there is nothing religious about math, because 2+2 = 4 no matter what your belief (or non-belief) is in God. However, when one asks a question “Is there life after death,” that is a religious question. Math has no concern or viewpoint, so it is not religious. Neither does the sport of football. Atheists, who have an answer, have their religious answer. If they say nothing happens, your dead, that’s it, that’s a religious statement. It directly is in opposition to Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, etc., the other religions. If Atheism didn’t have a religious component, it wouldn’t care about the question or have an answer, like math or football. But the vocal Atheists I hear (Dawkins, Harris) do have a position, and it is an important issue to them. They also have the urge to debate anyone with a contrary opinion as to the state after death, if the topic comes up. How could something be “not religious” when it cares so deeply about religious issues and questions? Think about it.
If you think you have no religion, as if there is some kind of neutral unbiased position on religious matters, I think you are likely deceived. And what you think happens (or doesn’t happen) in the next life has a great impact on how you live this life. I think I can quote you the preceding sentence by Atheist Sam Harris from his book (I think I remember him writing it).
,,,Bernie of FreeGoodNews.com
bdehler,
As well as being deluded, and emersed in wishfull thinking, you obviously don’t know the difference between religion and philosophy?
Sorry, should read, ‘immersed’
Bernie:
Not this old saw again.
How many mathmeticians do you know? Football fans paint themselves, have pre-game rituals, perform all sorts of ridiculous good luck dances, etc. They even riot when their team loses.
Oh, we’re not supposed to care about our fellow human beings?
Most of us have heard the ‘casual secularist’ argument before.
It’s really quite insulting.
Just because belief is absent, doesn’t mean feeling is absent.
Bernie
American football is really a sub-sect of Christinsanity. KA has already pointed out some of the ritualistic factors. There are also services on every day or night of the week except usually Tuesday and Wednesday. The coaches and players even praise the Christian god when they win their high honor, the Super Bowl Trophy. Communicants consume beer and hot dogs. (Or pizza or nachos-it’s not as literal a denomination.) Services are held in mega-churches and broadcast over TV, with helpful interpretations by former high priests who have access to instant replay.
remy
Kudos!
KA
YES! Thank you.
Krystalline Apostate said:
“Most of us have heard the ‘casual secularist’ argument before.
It’s really quite insulting.
Just because belief is absent, doesn’t mean feeling is absent.”
I don’t think the “belief is absent” for an Atheist. For an undecided agnostic, yes. But from what I hear from Atheists, they have no doubt– there is no afterlife. That’s a definite belief, not an absence of belief.
The sport of football has no care or opinion on the question “what happens after you die?” Neither does the art of cooking. But when it comes to the Atheist, there’s a definite opinion on this “religious” question. It’s the same for the question “Does God exist?” Therefore, there is a religious component to the Atheistic worldview. That is my point. That’s why I say if an Atheist thinks they have no religious outlook, they are self-deluded.
…Bernie of FreeGoodNews.com
bdehler,
Why is it that you believers insist on changing the language to fit your arguments?
To repeat: Philosophy and Religion are two very different animals. (I probably shouldn’t write animals, as it might confuse you, but I’ll leave it for now.)
Bernie:
Well, I’m 99.999999999% positive there isn’t an afterlife. You got proof? Prove it.
Sell me that car. Otherwise, I walk off the lot.
…& I think you missed the point entirely. On purpose?
Football causes high passions, as does cooking. Indeed, every year out in Oakland, if the Raiders lose, the fans riot.
I feel strongly about my fellow human beings being lied to about some superstitious claptrap. If you walked a mile in the shoes of an atheist, you’d see much that would make your eyes pop out, & anger would muddy your vision.
Religion doesn’t improve people. Not really. It has no explanations: if the boundaries of knowledge are reached, some abstract, unseen deity’s given the credit.
I don’t want the world blown to shit because of some addled hairy-eyed fanatics.
That’s not religion, that’s giving a shit about what happens to others.
So cut the Tu quoque already.
I’m not like you in that way.