Camp Quest was specifically designed for children of agnostics,atheists, brights, freethinkers, humanists, Unitarians, or whatever terms might be applied to those who maintain a naturalistic, not supernaturalistic, world view. Our campers are girls and boys ages 8-17. Our 2007 camp will be July 8 – 15 at Camp Watanda (about 70miles north of Sacramento, in the California Gold Country). Seecampquestwest.org for details.Please direct info requests to the Camp Director, Chris Lindstrom at:(650) 949-3192 campdirector@campquestwest.org
I did it last year, and I’ll be doing it again this year. It’s a great experience and the bugs aren’t that bad. Please consider this wonderful experience, alone or with your kid.
Two more years and my daughter and I will be Camp Quest Campers. I can’t wait!
I went to the Camp Quest website ans saw that the kids participate in “activities that teach them about freethought and humanist principles.” I don’t have any kids, but honestly I don’t think I’d want my kids to have to deal with anything so heavy as philosophy and ethics on their summer vacation. I’d rather they just have some fun with the canoeing and campfires and such. I’m sure there’s plenty of that too… but I’m extremely wary of any group of adults with a strong ideology trying to influence kids in a setting where they literally can’t get away from it. Even if it’s an ideology I (mostly) agree with.
Dave, maybe you can tell us, what sort of “freethought activities” do they do at Camp Quest? I’m also curious, suppose a religious parent wants to sign their kids up. Would they be accepted?
Apologies, **OFF TOPIC**
Spanders, (et al)
Here is a radio interview with Bishop Spong (38min.). If the link doesn’t work go to CBC pod casts and the program entitled Tapestry. Here is a theist who one can admire.
http://www.cbc.ca/podcasting/pastpodcasts.html?26#ref26
WOOHOO! Thread was derailed by the third post. That has to be some sort of record. Apparently, remy didn’t like the content of the thread so he/she had to make it about what he/she wanted to talk about. WAY TO GO!
thanks remy, I’ll check it out!
wisconsinatheist, knowing remy, it wasn’t an intentional derailment.
At CQ Ohio (and I’d imagine at most of the other camps as well) the freethought acivities are fairly short and/or incorporated into other activities. We have “Famous Freethinkers”, where kids listen to a three to five minute description of a freethinker from history after meals. We try to encourage various problem solving and rational thinking exercises within other exercise. It’s not like school— it’s like summer camp, but with a freethought twist.
Religious families can and have send campers to CQ, though it’s been a pretty rare request.
And, to clarify another statement you made earlier in your post, we’re definitely less about “influence” and more about “information.”
the whole concept of religion is to do one’s thinking them, from as early in childhood as possible…”give me the boy and i’ll give you the man”…to quote the jesuits. Thus i wouldn’t think a religious family would want any camp to teach independant thinking to their child, undoing years of brainwashing…the christian is the pencil without an eraser…”it is written”….anyway, isn’t there any safe haven from jesus freaks and hitler youths?
wisconsinatheist,
And just how do you think I ought communicate something that I know Spanders would be interested in?
AND, how is the thread derailed? You are not required to follow every post. I would submit that you’re complaint is what has now derailed the thread.
Didn’t I read something somewhere about a bunch of teachers in Virginia freaking out because they were required to hand out Camp Quest brochures along with all the Boy Scout and 4H stuff?
Ha. Here it is – it was from WorldNut:
http://richarddawkins.net/article,1192,Teachers-rebel-over-atheism-promotion,Bob-Unruh-WorldNetDailycom
camp quest=family values.i think its great that ethics are taught in a family friendly format.heck our society could use a big dose of ethics.i hope all who attend have a great time.
ps be careful about ticks.
Camp Quest sounds like a wonderful alternative to the “Jesus Camp”/Vacation Bible Schools down here in Texas…I don’t have the $$$ right now but will consider it for my nine-year-old next year. Vacation Bible Schools offer free transportation, lunch, prayer and indoctrination to inner city kids…I worked in one several summers ago teaching arts/crafts but could not stand the creepy Jesus sing-alongs…and being an atheist didn’t help much so I pretended to be Baptist
Barbiebrains worked at vacation bible school now she has a nine yr old.
Barbie did you get some of that old time religion, you weren’t yelling out jesus,jesus now were you.
Reason,
You got me there…Yes, I was yelling out jesus, jesus, jesus and have been known to speak in tongues…my daughter came before my conversion…I’m a redneck mother, gun-rack and all…LOL!
Barbie
“and being an atheist didn’t help much so I pretended to be Baptist
”
That’s funny
. How did it go? Ever pretend to be LDS? I tried once but my lack of alcohol consumption gave me away.
I have been wondering how a xian defines the word “lie”. Is it different from how an atheist defines the word? If a xian knows there is no factual evidence for the existence of a gawd yet chooses to believe that one does exist are they lying? To themselves? What if they tell others that one exists wouldn’t they surely be lying then? In my dictionary they would be. So is it possible to be an evangelical xian that recognizes their religion is purely a belief or faith and not simultaneously break one of their commandments?
What:
Lying depends on truth, and any cogent idea of truth pretty much goes out the window whenever faith is involved.
Luckily most religious people don’t take their faith as seriously as they might, and they’re able to reason adequately about truth and honesty, for the most part anyway (of course, we are all fallible in that respect though).
I think it’s when people really take the idea of faith seriously that ideas like “lie”, “honesty”, and “truth” lose all meaning. If people realized this, they’d see how absurd faith really is.
So yeah… You’ve isolated yet another contradiction that arises from faith. Add it to the pile!
What,
I have been a member of several 12-step programs and numerous religious affilitations plus a UFO cult that insisted on making me watch reruns of Knight Rider while drinking cases of Tab…Pretending to be a Baptist was the hardest act I’ve ever had to put on…much tougher than the UFO-cult schtick…It went over badly, I got into it with the church ladies and we almost came to blows…LOL!
As to religious “truth”, I don’t think religious people are necessarily “lying”…I think it is role-playing, a performance of sorts (heck, after a while even I enjoyed being a fake-Baptist), and all good actors become their character…their truth/performance is always negotiated.
Barbie
Do you take on these roles in a professional capacity as, for example, a writer/reporter? This sounds interesting!
Apple
… and innate empathy gives way to contrived morality.
Barbie
Yes the “role playing” aspect of religion is very important and not talked about enough.
“Camp Quest was specifically designed for children of agnostics,atheists, brights, freethinkers, humanists, Unitarians, or whatever terms might be applied to those who maintain a naturalistic, not supernaturalistic, world view.”
Almost sounds like the inquisition. Why not make it available to all, regardless of faith? Why be exclusive? I’m not an Atheist, but I think it would be smarter for your movement to say everyone is welcome, and simply explain that all classes/projects etc., are coming from a naturalistic framework and that a naturalistic framework will be advanced. If you want to be “evangelistic” in your Atheism, you shouldn’t act so exclusive to those you hope to reach, unless you are afraid of being overpowered by a group of believers signing up. wouldn’t you like (and hope) to sign-up believers to show (educate) them your outlook?
…Bernie of FreeGoodNews.com
bdehler
Well I wouldn’t send my children to CQ of the type you suggest. I want to expose my children to the nondeluded members of our society. If I want to expose them to the religiously deluded I could do that anywhere, anytime, and I wouldn’t have to pay for it. Get it?
What gives you the idea that this is about evangelism anyhow? It’s about getting away from it! Seriously man, how could you type such nonsense let alone think it.
Hey, does CQ hire or allow college-aged kids to volunteer as camp councelors? My son will turn 18 this Fall.
bdehler:
Bar the blood & screaming. Oh, & the persecution, the pointing fingers, blood libel, all sorts of things.
Ridiculous comment, really.
Maybe you can cough up some proof that religious are turned away at the door?
See above.
Newsflash: All ARE welcome. Perhaps not at this camp, but into the ‘fold’, so to speak.
Likewise, I’d feel terribly out of place at a Lamaze class, or a woman’s retreat, or joining a children’s summer camp (being a grown man & all).
As evidenced by your poorly thought-out synopses on your website, & after a few years of debating you & yours, education comes hard to the religious.
I’d suggest you do a LOT more research on atheism, prior to pronouncing on the subject again.
*Off topic*
Speaking of children, here is an article I just found. I’ve been lurking here for a while and thought that the rationale for the interpretation of the results mirrors a lot of what I’ve seen in other topics posted, meaning “I’ll pay attention only to the parts that support what I believe.”
http://www.garageband.com/artist/
SunMostHigh
Comment from: Apple_Christmas
CQ is indoctrination…pure and simple. And anyone who denies that is…(what was that question?)…lying…
And here’s something that’s sure to give some heartburn…
http://washtimes.com/national/20070529-111815-7952r.htm
And one more thing…an atheist utopia?
Look up “Liberal, Missouri”…
Society without God simply doesn’t work…
CAB4reason,
We accept volunteer staff age 18 and up, though different camps have different staffing needs. Your son should go to http://www.camp-quest.org, chose the camps that he’s interest in, and contact them directly. Being on staff is a ridiculously fun experience– I think we have at least as much fun as the campers.
KA,
I wouldn’t imagine he can… ’cause they aren’t. Yes, we’re mainly a haven for various sorts of freethinkers, but we don’t exclude children from religious families from attending, on the few occasions they apply to do so.
phreedm,
Just using the “i-word” doesn’t make it so. Reasons?
All societies are without god! He doesn’t exist!
But if you are referring to the societies in which a majority of the population believes in a deity (USA) vs societies in which a majority of the population is secular (Sweden, Japan, etc.) then you need to check the statistics. More religious societies FAR outnumber secular societies in ALL levels of crime (murder, rape, theft, etc.)
Phreedm, you are a waste of organs.
Phreeidiot
Why would I care that all the sheep think the bible is gods word actually makes me feel better that I do nto agree with the majority of idiots in this world. Thanks for the reassurance. Dont you have to catch up to the flock you SHEEP.One day you should try thinking on your own instead of a book doing it for you.
phreedm you silly person…i realize that you are a plant here, as your sweeping statements and their little examples are not the ideas of anyone with anything really to say…fess up…which atheist group put you up to this??…come on …you know you want to come clean so you can sleep better…don’t live the lie any longer, it isn’t healthy…spill the beans…
My son is only 3 but everyone I know that attended CQ has said it’s great.
there is a difference between teaching WHAT to think and HOW to think…reason is what indoctrination steals; rationalism(not rationalising) and freethought give it back.If phreedm can give an example to the contrary as concerns camp quest…i’ll change my opinion. IT’S SHOWTIME!
Someone named “What” wrote:
“Well I wouldn’t send my children to CQ of the type you suggest. I want to expose my children to the nondeluded members of our society. If I want to expose them to the religiously deluded I could do that anywhere, anytime, and I wouldn’t have to pay for it. Get it?”
You didn’t read my comment clearly. I said the organizers and presenters could all be of the naturalistic mindset and purpose, why then limit participants based on their belief? Why give a religious test for those who want to sign-up and attend and learn from your wisdom? Why isn’t it your very hope to reach those who are “wrong”? You only want to create a program for those who already have the belief? That is what the original post said:
“Camp Quest was specifically designed for children of agnostics,atheists, brights, freethinkers, humanists, Unitarians, or whatever terms might be applied to those who maintain a naturalistic, not supernaturalistic, world view.”
…Bernie of FreeGoodNews.com
Krystalline said:
“Likewise, I’d feel terribly out of place at a Lamaze class, or a woman’s retreat, or joining a children’s summer camp (being a grown man & all).”
You wouldn’t be out of place at a Lamaze class if your spouse was in it; you do it as a couple. A women’s retreat is for developing women, so of course a man shouldn’t go. A children’s camp is for kids, so of course a man shouldn’t go.
However, if the camp, as yours, is primarily for education, then I’d think your target should be the most “uneducated.” Instead, you have the target as those who already have the belief. Think about it- I’m actually giving you friendly advice so you can be more effective at your agenda. Why? Because I’m not worried. I think education is a good thing. I think seeking truth is a good thing. I think comunication among those who think differently is a good thing.
…Bernie of FreeGoodNews.com
APBio said:
“But if you are referring to the societies in which a majority of the population believes in a deity (USA) vs societies in which a majority of the population is secular (Sweden, Japan, etc.) then you need to check the statistics. More religious societies FAR outnumber secular societies in ALL levels of crime (murder, rape, theft, etc.)”
Sweden and Japan are not secular any more than America is. Here is their population belief:
Sweden:
Lutheran 87%, other (includes Roman Catholic, Orthodox, Baptist, Muslim, Jewish, and Buddhist) 13%
Japan:
Observe both Shinto and Buddhist 84%, other 16% (including Christian 0.7%)
Sources:
Sweden:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/sw.html
Japan:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ja.html
…Bernie of FreeGoodNews.com
bdehler
There is no religious test for attending Camp Quest. If you have children and you would like them to attend then I am sure the organizers would have no problem with that. But you will have to sign a registration form containing the following statement:
“there are three kinds of lies:lies,damned lies, and statistics”….benjamin disraeli or mark twain or somebody else.So some person believes that sweden and iran are both religious countries…one is not more “secular” than the other…based on numbers?????? I just can’t take this kind of (il)logic…i need a toke ..right now
bdehler
You said that I did not clearly read your comment then you post a reiteration showing that I did read it clearly. Of course this is level of clarity of thought that I expect from xians that we must deal with daily. It’s nice to give the kids a break from it … dont’ you think?
Phreedy
Read Imaskeptic’s reply. He nicely made clear that indoctrination is the opposite of what is done at QC. It is a well known tactic of the religious to change the accepted meaning of words to fit their arguments.
Someone called “What” said:
“Well I wouldn’t send my children to CQ of the type you suggest.”
Why not? Did I suggest a change in content? No. The only suggestion I made was that it should be open to participants of any faith. I don’t think you understood that; that’s why I said you didn’t read my comment clearly.
Apparently it is open to all children, and the original quote from the announcements at the start of this thread was misleading. Apparently, the program was designed for the kids of naturalists, but enrollment is not limited to them (per rainbows4dinosaurs’s post).
By the way, I think it is an excellent outreach to do for your group.
Some people think that “learning” and “fun” are mutually exclusive; but I think it’s good to instill the “love of learning” into kids, and show them the beauty of creation.
…Bernie of FreeGoodNews.com
What,
I am neither a writer nor a reporter…just a public school teacher (elementary/pre-K) working towards my masters in library science…My fascination with religion stems from a morbid sense of humor, I have no problem joining the ranks/taking a baptism in order to get photographs and material…Baptist churches are a source of entertainment…I am constantly in search of the religious kitsch… Velvet Jesus statuettes, anyone?:)
bdehler all those kids have to do is look at the nature around them and they will see the beauty of natural creation.
phreedm you are a heretic and blasphemer.would a god of love want his servant to speak in his name as you do.do you ever have anything positive to say to or about atheists.i can respect a true christian because there is love in their hearts but your faith is hollow.you are one of the many who pretend to be christian.your christianity is nothing more than an insurance policy.
bdehler:
I meant going there alone – sorry, wasn’t clear.
rainbows already addressed most of that.
Note that atheism is a lack of belief, not really a belief system per se.
phreedm i came down hard on you not because i think your a bad person but because you know better.you know as well as i do that the powers that be don’t give a hoot what atheists or conservative christians think.we just have to try and be moral people and encourage each other to be good people.drugs flood our society kids exposed to sex, worship of money.atheists and christians don’t need to fight each other.
Barbie
Well I hope you write about your adventures. The Jesus-of-the-Week site would happen to be yours would it? If fot have you seen it at:
http://www.jesusoftheweek.com/
Krystalline said:
“Note that atheism is a lack of belief, not really a belief system per se.”
I disagree. I’ve been listening to quite a few Atheist podcasts. Technically, what you say may be true. Practically, however, I think the “bold Atheists” (those most vocal) have a strong “belief” (since it can’t be proved either way) that there is no God.
There’s a big difference between “lack of a belief” and “belief that there is no God.” In fact, I would say that it is virtually impossible to have a “lack of belief.” Everyone has a belief, whether it is in a God, no god(s), etc. I don’t believe there is any such thing as a “null” belief, except for the person who is undecided. I think very few are undecided. I think most are decided, but maybe don’t want to admit it.
I know a person who was a Christian, then left the faith. This person said (unknowingly falsely) that they no longer have a belief. However, in more discussion and follow-up, it became evident that this person does have a belief system, and it could be called “secular humanism.” They agreed when faced with this information.
My point: I think it is an error if someone goes around thinking they “have no beliefs.” Maybe a person gets that way because they just dumped a belief system that they were defending, and don’t want to have to go through that again. However, to grow, I think one must always test their belief system, as a matter of maturity. We all start at different places, but if we love the truth and seek it, we should all eventually get to the same place.
…Bernie of FreeGoodNews.com
oh,please!!! me asking you to prove that your god exists…then waiting patiently while you fail to do so, does not mean i practice a religion!!! me stating there are no flying pigs does not mean i am in a no-flying-pig religion!!! this line of reasoning is just silly(but not funny)
As a christian who has been on this blog, I can tell you my experience is that “bold atheists” are the ones who are tired of having theism thrust upon them. I think they “believe” they are tired of people using flimsy rhetoric with them. Over the last two years, I’ve listened on this blog and have found that we, as christians, have some work to do on ourselves before we start telling atheists that their ideas are the same as our beliefs. Faith and reason are different things. Don’t blur them. I have faith their is a god, but I don’t equate that to someone reasoning that if god cannot be proven (or even ideas about a loving god can be proven) then god does not exist.
A belief system is different than secular humanism. Simply because you see the world through a belief system (much like I do) doesn’t mean you should force your own understanding of life on other people. Listen before you come to conclusions. Simply because you have a conversation with one person one time about atheism does not mean you have it all neatly tied up.
I too think one must test their faith to grow. Equating atheism to faith is false, so your point should be more about yourself and other christians than atheists. One should also listen before making assumptions so that their intellect and empathy can grow.