When unexplained violence takes center stage, we tend to turn to modern psychology to explain it.But there is an alternative explanation, one that has been played out in film, stage and writings since the beginning of history.
Was Cho Seung-Hui schizophrenic ? psychotic ? manic-depressive? Or were the shooting deaths of 32 people, including Cho himself, at Virginia Tech University part of the ongoing struggle between God and Satan ? good against evil ? lightness and darkness?Could Cho have been possessed by the Devil? Could that explain the massacre at Virginia Tech?Dr. Richard Roberts, president of Oral Roberts University, shouts an unequivocal ?Yes!??Based on what I?ve seen in the news,” Roberts said in an interview, “there?s no doubt that this act was Satanic in origin.”
Gee. I wonder if he’d be saying this if Mr. Cho wasn’t Christian, if he didn’t mention Jesus in his rantings as if he were in some kind of communication (anyone who claims to talk with God is nuts, right?). I wonder if he’d blame Atheism if Cho were an Atheist.I write this because I was ABOUT to write a blog entry urging you not to link Cho’s Christianity with his dimentia. He was very disturbed and we can’t honestly blame Christianity for this.But… we can certainly point the finger at scumbags trying to capitalize on tragedy for their own personal gain. Shermer was quoted in passing in this article, but he wasn’t trying to twist the facts.
If he was a xtian, why not give some of the blame to xitanity. xtianity f’s peoples minds up so much that it may be one of the major contributing factors.
I agree…they are already lining up…
http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/g/39e055dc-a749-476c-b083-ac22e8c57c13
He was obviously a confused Christian, as anyone would be after looking to Jesus for moral advice. Jesus said: “resist not evil” (Matt 5:39), the biggest blooper of any alleged moralist, and gets a pass still today.
Jesus was ambivalent on violence, either turn the other cheek, or: “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.” Matt 10:34. “But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me” Luke 19:27 (this clearly goes beyond self defense).
Any borderline psychopath reading the works of Jesus will come away confused at best.
As a culture, we need to actually sit down and read the works of Jesus objectively, and hopefully get out of the intellectual dark ages resulting from the excessive adoration of the unsettled and conflicted character Jesus.
People with mental health issues will become confused with any message. AC/DC was the inspiration for one killer.
Just as David said, this is a mental health case, not a religious one.
Hey, hey phred, we agree again, Obama is stupid.
phreedm,
If we want to talk about people capitalizing off of tragedy, let’s start with the most obvious: your beloved president and his repeated use of the 9/11 attacks in his speeches in order to rally support for himself and his corrupt administration.
Not only are the religious crazies jumping on the VT tragedy to further their agenda but so is the anti Second Amendment crowd.
Religion has to be at least a symptom of mental illness if not a disease in itself….IMO.
Sick bastards.
Yeah. How many people would he have killed if he hadn’t had such easy access to two semiautomatic weapons, which were obviously for the protection of his home, person and property?
karen,
I agree. I think they should really have a better screening process when people buy guns, one that includes mental illnesses. I’m sick of people worrying about their precious guns being taken away. This shit wouldn’t be happening if guns weren’t so easy to get, but the pro-gun lobbyists have so much power and money that we’ll never have better and SAFER gun control. Plus people are so pig-headed about keeping their damn guns. Can they honestly look into the eyes of each one of those kids families and tell them that we shouldn’t have better gun control laws?
My parents came over from Europe and even though they could have easily bought guns to “protect the home with” they never did. We got dogs instead. And you know what? Not one of their 5 kids went insane and shot a bunch of people. Nor did any of them go to jail for robbery or assault.
evil
I’ve always assumed that since I have the mental illness label, I couldn’t legally get a gun. Now I know that since, like Cho, I was voluntarily hospitalized, I can still have access.
Whee! And if I stop taking my meds, and decide that people are out to get me, look out! God Bless the 2nd Amendment! Oh, and I’ll be sure to embrace Christianity before I start shooting anyone too, to ensure everyone of my mental instability.
karen,
But can you cuddle up with a gun?
Karen! You are brighter than that!!!
I support background checks, gun registration, and a ban on automatic weapons but the fact is that VT had recently cracked down on a no guns on campus policy which could have disarmed a responsible gun owner that could have killed this psycho in his tracks before he had the chance ti kill 33 people. This killer was obviously nuts and if he hadn’t used a gun he could have filled a car with fertilizer based explosives a la Oklahoma City and killed thousands. Guns aren’t the problem, sociopaths are.
alex
So if VT had a crackdown on no guns policy, how’d this guy stroll in with two semi-automatic weapons? Was it based on the honor system?
I know he could’ve gone the car-bomb route. I’m saying, make it that much harder. Add up all the people who are killed by guns and you get the result of an Oklahoma City bomb. It just doesn’t seem as bad because it’s widely distributed.
Yes, sociopaths are the problem. Take away their easiest route to mass murder.
Evil,
Count me as pig headed about my right to defend my family and home. My gun will not leave my posession easily.
I have 2 college students who grew up in a home with firearms, secured in a safe responsible way. They were taught the mechanics of a weapon and the responsible use of a gun. Both are honor roll students and well rounded, free of the dogma of religion.
Timothy McVeigh did not need a gun to kill many more people than this.
It would be nice if there were a way to educate potential gun owners, certifying their competency prior to awarding them the right to a firearm. It is done with a car, why not with a gun.
As I understand it VT had an incident several months ago where a student who was carrying a gun around his waist accidentaly had his shirt pulled up which exposed the gun. Predictably the anti-gun students freaked out and VT cracked down on their “Gun Free Zone” policy going so far as to take away guns from campus police! Just imagine what might have been the outcome if the police responding to Norris Hall had been armed. I for one never want to be caught as an unarmed sheep when someone intent on harming me or my loved ones invades my home and thankfully I have the backing of the Constitution to do so. I am all for background checks, education, registration, and the banning of automatic weapons but this Libertarian will never give up his gun.
I am a second amendment supporter, but I agree that better screening is required for gun buyers. I am sure that the Founding Father?s did not want psychotics having weapons.
The real question is why did the behavior history of Cho that was carefully documented by an English professor not get into the database for gun buyers? A professional panel of mental health experts also reviewed his record in 2005 and concluded he was a danger to himself and others. He was committed, but after one interview with a psychiatrist at the institution, he was labeled not a threat to others.
That’s like a zoologist declaring that an alligator is not dangerous to others. Alligators are dumb, with no sense of morality. If a person is sufficiently psychotic, a psychiatrist is way over his head estimating the damage he might do.
Perhaps all gunowners should be required also to undergo quarterly psychiatric evaluations, and if they show any signs of instability, they should be required to surrender their weapons. And their homes should be inspected to make sure that their weapons are “safely secured”.
A member of my family recently blew his face off with a legally owned gun. He was ex-military and the gun was used in his job at a corrections facility. He was not a sociopath, but was a disturbed young man who acted in a moment of anger and frustration. He may have still killed himself in some other way, but there is nothing quite as immediate as a gunshot between the eyes.
Somewhat off topic, but I thought I’d bring it up.
As if you needed another reason to hate Fred Phelps…
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/18/national/main2699800.shtml
Fred Phelp and his clan had better watch themselves if they do decide to protest at VT. The nerves are still too raw and he might just find himself getting hurt. Freedom of speech allows his hateful dispalys but in my opinion he has no ethical right to that sort of speech. Interesting that he received little national attention when he was picketing gay people’s funerals but within days of picketing the deaths of Iraq War soldiers legislation was introduced to limit when and where he could protest. Apparently gay lives in America are less worthy than those of fallen soldiers.
At least they’re trying to stop Phelps’ group from protesting. They really should make protesting at funerals punishable by a year in jail. I honestly can’t see a single reason why someone would feel the need to protest someone’s funeral, not even a serial killer’s funeral. Have a little respect, if not for the dead then at least for their families. My reasoning for not protesting a serial killer’s funeral is that you are only hurting their family, and that’s just cruel, especially considering what all they already have to deal with.
So, he was sent by gawd to punish the untrue christians, but then sent to hell for doing what gawd wanted him to do.
Sounds about par for the course.
Wackadoos. All of them.
I hope the funeral locations are kept secret and Phelps’ looney-toons are not able to get anywhere near the grieving families or the VT community.
Unfortunately, Karen, yes. It WAS the honor system. I’ve also found out from a Virginia concealed carry permit holder that ONLY THE FACULTY, STAFF, AND STUDENTS were prevented from carrying on campus. My sister and her husband are free to carry on any Virginia campus, except for the colleges they actually attend. At VT, it was an expellable offense by the school, but not a legal crime.
BTW, my sister? If you ask her why she always (yes, always) carries a gun, here’s her response…
“Have you ever been raped at gunpoint? I have. Once.”
Bones
With all due respect to your sister, i hope that if the need arises, her gun proves to be a protection for her and not a weapon against her. I understand her thought process. But having also been raped-and not at gunpoint-if I were to carry a gun, I think I would shoot first and ask questions later, possibly killing someone who may not have intended to rape me at all.
Alternately, I’m not sure that I wouldn’t rather die than ever be raped again. It would all depend on what state of dissociation the event would throw me into.
no offense taken, karen.
My sister has a 20-yr-old mentally handicapped son who lives with her. My biggest fear is that he’ll get a hold of one of their guns. Who knows what he’d do with it. Yeah, they keep them locked up, but they also kept all matches out of the house, and that didn’t stop him from starting a fire.
They also harp on me sometimes to own a gun, which I refuse to do.
I am for stricter rules on who can own a gun. For most law-abiding citizens, that shouldn’t be a problem. I have a hard time understanding why it is so offensive to them.
I think the all day class they require you to take to get a carry license in Tn. should be implemented in all High Schools, whether you decide to carry or even own a gun. It drives home the point that every day you do not have to use your gun against another human is a good day in your life. After the class you in no way ever want to use the gun in anger or for any reason other than a situation where you are forced to strongly consider killing a person. Such a situation occurred at VT Monday, and anyone who carried would have known what to do.
Most abuse of guns is by people who own guns but do not have a carry permit.
it appears in the Va.Tech case that if you are on a outpatient basis you are not put in the database for background checks.my understanding is
you can’t commit someone for having bad thoughts there has to be acts involved.
bj1693:
I like the you think. Well reasoned and logical.
Anyone have info/links showing the statistics of gun violence in right to carry locations vs. locations with gun bans?
bilge
http://wnd.com/images2/barbee15.jpg
Someday religion or belief will rightly be classified as a mental illness. Presently they are constitutionally protected forms of psychosis whereby one modifies one’s behavior despite evidence that such modification is needed or effective.
I have bipolar disorder.
I want people to respect me, and try to treat me fairly.
However, if there is a concern I may harm someone in one of my down moods, I would accept the idea I would not be allowed any guns.
And the body count should be lower if I am forced to use a meat cleaver.
Picture that guy in Virginia with a meat cleaver instead of a gun. Probably a much lower body count.
Gun control ideas are proposed for that purpose: to lower the body count.
Guns don’t kill people. They just let killers rack up higher body counts.
About conceal carry states. My home state, Kansas, my home on the gun range, is now a conceal carry state. So, in theory, I should feel a little safer. Because if such an incident happens in Kansas, there is a good chance a licensed person will be on hand to gun down the killer before the body count gets too high.
One problem. Every door in the state of Kansas has a no gun sign on it. So, the only way I could get any help is outdoors. And not even then. The licenses are worthless, because you are always going somewhere. And everywhere you go, there is the sign. The guns stay at home, or are left in cars. Or the licensed carriers carry guns into places, disregarding the signs. I do not know.
About religion contributing to killing.
I think a strong sense of a grand purpose in life helps people kill.
Christians have a grand purpose in life, so they go on a crusade, and kill.
Muslims have a grand purpose in life, so they embrace jihad, and kill.
Jews have the grandest purpose in life: defending themselves against jihad. They are doing it so well. They even killed people in Lebanon with white sulphur warhead rockets. White sulphur burns so hot, it burns the arms off the bodies. Burning, holocaust. The Jews are the new Nazis. With a grand purpose that helps them kill.
So, uhm….. If someone guns down any of the Phelps family, that would mean they weren’t “true Christians”? I mean, “God does not do that to his servants”.
Now, if we could only get a volunteer to test that theory. :p
st. lucifer,
As much as I hate Phelps and his group of hate-mongers, I enjoy having sex without an officer in the room even more. Not to mention peeing without everyone being able to see.
Has there ever been an incident in the US where a private citizen used a concealed weapon to stop a situation like this? I’m guessing not.
I think that if one or two of the students or teachers were armed, the results would likely have been worse, with bullets flying everywhere.
My impression is that most people who have a gun for self defense are more likely to use it as a threat only. For those who actually do figure out how to release the safety before getting shot first, the adrenalin will make them highly erratic and a danger to others.
Without a background of military or police training most people are going to be a liability in a shooting battle. Certainly the odds improve for an experienced hunter or paint ball afficionado, but it is still a kind of a Walter Mitty fantasy for gun lovers that they could be the hero.
Kind of like private pilots’ daydreams of landing a 747 when the pilots are incapacitated.
Of course, what do I know. The only hand gun I’ve ever seen was a pellet gun in a Canadian Tire store.
There really are no easy answers. We can’t lock up everyone who might become disturbed enough to do this. Even in a country where guns are much more restricted like Canada, they can still be obtained and used.
Roberts is a ghoul, ultimately trying to benefit from the pain of the bereaved. Then there’s Rush and the rest. Phelps is about as low as they come.
According to the newsm if the judge in Cho’s earlier hearing for mental fitness had had him commited, he never would have had access to those guns. But since the judge ordered him to attent an outpatient program, he could by a gun perfectly legally.
Here’s what I could find with a hasty search.
http://www.amazon.com/Guns-Save-Lives-Americans-Defending/dp/1559502266
Thank you DD Dropout