160 Responses to “Late blog on Late Abortions”

1. reluctantatheist says:

   May 1, 2007 at 6:27 pm

   EAC:

   I too went through that kind of depression. What kept me from doing it was that I didn’t want anyone to have to clean up something like that.

   Exactly my point.

   I think that a more sensitive approach needs to be taken when discussing it. I’m just so sick of people always condemning suicides as selfish and cowards.

   I can go along w/that, w/reservations.
   That’ll work w/some folks, but not all. Some people will likely get snapped out of the idea by the blunt statement. Not all.

   Besides, it’s been proven for years that it is caused by a lack of norepinephrine and saratonin in the brain, not “demonic possession” or any of that crap.

   Really? I saw a commercial that stated, “We don’t know what causes depression, but here’s a pill for it!” (para) That was recently, BTW.
   I’d like to see some stats for that (curious, is all).
2. evilatheistconquerer says:

   May 1, 2007 at 7:11 pm

   KA,
   “That’ll work w/some folks, but not all. Some people will likely get snapped out of the idea by the blunt statement. Not all.”

   Yes, and those people most likely were using suicide attempts as a cry for help, not because they had an actual desire to end their lives. Their situation shouldn’t be downplayed either though because if help isn’t gotten, their condition could worsen. People who actually commit suicide or make serious attempts to commit suicide are tested and later found to have abnormal levels of serotonin.
   http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/38/12/26-a

   “I saw a commercial that stated, “We don’t know what causes depression, but here’s a pill for it!”"

   Actually, not all people who commit/attempt suicide have clinical depression.
   http://www.suicidereferencelibrary.com/test4~id~1397.php

   Here’s some more info on depression.
   http://www.emedicine.com/EMERG/topic129.htm
3. evilatheistconquerer says:

   May 1, 2007 at 7:13 pm

   Oh, and don’t be surprised if I don’t respond for a while. I have a couple of long ass papers to write before the sun comes up.
4. reluctantatheist says:

   May 2, 2007 at 12:38 pm

   Well, jcc? Cat got your tongue?
   You’ll ignore, mention mos. later (I should say, assert) that my points were ‘lame’ post ex facto.
   Standard stuff.
   Disappointing.
5. jcc says:

   May 2, 2007 at 2:03 pm

   Krystalline Apostate:

   Well, jcc? Cat got your tongue?

   Actually, I’m far more interested to see what karen was going to reply than spinning my wheels with you arguing points about ?theoretical? physics that cannot be proved.
   

   Disappointing.

   Ditto.
6. reluctantatheist says:

   May 2, 2007 at 2:22 pm

   jcc:

   Actually, I’m far more interested to see what karen was going to reply than spinning my wheels with you arguing points about ?theoretical? physics that cannot be proved.

   I’ll take that as a concession.
7. karen says:

   May 2, 2007 at 3:59 pm

   jcc
   I’ll get working on my response. Grandkids were here yesterday. Then I was out; now I’m sick. Lots of catching up to do.
8. jcc says:

   May 2, 2007 at 4:55 pm

   karen:

   Take your time.
9. karen says:

   May 2, 2007 at 5:41 pm

   Find me anyone who will argue that the night sky isn?t beautiful.

   How about a blind persoon? And then there’s HZ. Honestly, there may be plenty of people who are unimpressed by it.

   This appreciation is something I believe evolved.

   How? Based on what? It seems to me it?s a belief that you?ve required of yourself for no other purpose than to deny the existence of God. You?ve said yourself that you?ve yet to do any in-depth research on all the competing theories. Without doing such, you?ve chosen to believe based on your feelings, not evidences for, or against.

   Think about the earliest man, evolution style, not Adam and Eve style. He spent all his time fixated on survival. Finding shelter, his next meal, keeping from being something else’s meal. Contemplating the night sky was probably on his “to do” list. It’s just a guess on my part, but I think it’s a reasonable one.
   It has nothing to do with convincing myself that there’s no god. I have researched the biblical story, but not ID. I’ve read a little about ID, and it seems to be just a cover for “goddidit”, without naming one.
   Since the last electroshock treatments, I have great difficulty reading and remembering anything of any length. But I may look around for a lay friendly book, or peruse it online. Odds are, I won’t recall much of what I read, if I don’t talk about it.

   Possibly, but I think it?s more of a case of him never really ever having any true hardships in his life (to him the worst thing that ever happened to him was joining the Navy at the end of WWII). He?s always had all the material things he?s ever needed or wanted, therefore there?s never been any need for him to explore the deeper things in life.

   I keep trying to cut your dad a break and you keep slicing the bread as thin as possible. I guess you’re just being honest about him. Well, your mom’s death and his loss of memory and health problems due to drinking are wake-up calls for him, then. Guess what, Dad? Life ain’t just smooth sailing. I suggest you let him handle it in his own way, sounds like it’s time he had a challenge.

   He believes there is a God, but because he hasn?t made the effort to understand that belief, he hasn?t acquired the faith in God necessary to comfort him. If ?believe and you will believe? were axiomatic then my Dad would not be in the shape he?s in.

   Perhaps your dad is doing what a lot of christians do, and that is pay lip service. Or perhaps he is finding out that there is really nothing there to believe in.

   God gives us challenges to develop our character and faith in Him with?not to see if we can pass His tests.

   Like Job? How do you know he doesn’t have millions of little side bets with the devil going on all the time to make the game more interesting?

   Intellectually, I regard suicide as cowardice, and if I succumbed to it, then ultimately, I would be a coward and my faith would, instead, actually be despair.

   I think you’d have to look at each individual case to determine courage or cowardice. I can think of cases where each would apply.

   On the other hand, I do firmly believe that God does not give us more than we can handle.

   Then why so many theistic suicides?
   He obviously does not give enough reason to support faith not turning to despair.

   If they were to become chronic I would have to rely on my faith that somehow God would, if I ask, see me through it. After all, I?ve made it though 30 years of episodic clusters by praying for Him to get me through them.

   How is he helping you through them now? You say you pray through every minute of every episode. Do you take medication for them? Or do you rely only on him getting you through?

   I think my intelligence is a gift from God that is being used for one of the many purposes God created me for.

   That’s not what I asked. I asked if you didn’t think you were intelligent enough to participate in this conversation on your own.

   As I?ve said before, Christianity is not intuitive. It?s not something that, given enough time; one can arrive at on one?s own.

   Well, I’ve been operating on a misperception then. I thought you said we were imbued with morality(the christian variety) and god and jesus and the spirit at birth-or was it at inception. My mistake.

   It has to be told to us by others (i.e. the Bible).

   Yeah, cos it was MADE UP.
   What you perceived as secrets were the misunderstandings and lack of knowledge of those you were depending on.
   No, it was their not being able to admit that they couldn’t explain the unexplainable, or reveal a lie.

   Like I said, I?d much rather have challenges in my life than be guaranteed an equal outcome.

   There is an equal outcome; we all die.

   And God only ?denounces? the homosexual behavior, not the individual. He loves us just as we are, but too much to want us to remain that way. We?re all in process.

   “I love you just the way you are. Now change or you I won’t play with you when you die.”

   I disagree. Keeping God in the equation is quite difficult because it forces us to acknowledge that we cannot control every aspect of our lives; that we are not the final authority in our lives and that we are ultimately responsible for all we do?not our genetics.

   WE don’t control everything. Some of life is left up to chance. If r4d’s neighbors had left 5 minutes later or earlier that day, they may not have been hit by the flatbed truck.
   Your way, there’s no way to avoid it. God had a flatbed coming for them.

   but ones like learning to play every kind of musical instrument, or building a house that I get to design.

   Ok, but THEN what? This is forever and ever and ever dude. Boring.

   How could it not be to your benefit?

   Dunno. It’s an irrationality I’m working on.

   there was a new little girl in class who is quite a bit shorter than everyone else and, unfortunately, most of the kids immediately started teasing her about it. Is that good or evil?

   It’s neither good nor evil. It’s mean; part of being a kid. I’ll bet ya the majority of the kids were christians too, weren’t they? (Just taking a wild guess that you’re not sending your kids to an atheist school.)Not paying much attention about doing unto others, eh?

   Your parents didn?t create the sperm and egg cells their bodies produced that became you; they just made it possible for them to come together.

   My parents’ bodies created the sperm and egg, etc.

   Then get ready, ?cause like that movie (that was also true for any James L. Brooks movie) says?this is ?As Good as it Gets?

   Time to quote SpongBob: “I’m ready! I’m Ready! I’m ready, eddy, eddy!”

   Let me know when you decide it?s ?moral? to take an ax to your neighbor?s head.
   OK, unless the head belongs to you. That would take the level of surprise out of it and sort of defeat the purpose.

   ?you?ll always need forgiveness because you?ll never be able to not sin.

   And when I wrong someone, I’ll ask for forgiveness. But all the myriad of things you and your god consder to be sins are not on my list and I
   won’t worry about them.

   What experiences have we no other way of explaining?

   The spiritual ones.

   Ok, we’re getting stuck in this emotional/spiritual semantic argument here. If you’re going to insist on spiritual, then it can’t be explained, cos it doesn’t exist, but emotionally, it’s neurons firing and reactions to stimuli, etc.
10. karen says:

    May 2, 2007 at 6:15 pm

    jcc

    Gack! The typos and screwed up blockquotes!
    I think you can navigate around most of them, but let me fix this one so it’s clear:
    Contemplating the night sky was probably NOT on his “to do” list.