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	<title>Comments on: Reading the Bible Leads to Violence</title>
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	<link>http://atheists.org/blog/2007/04/02/reading_the_bible_leads_to_violence</link>
	<description>A Blog of Atheist Thought</description>
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		<title>By: DVanWechel</title>
		<link>http://atheists.org/blog/2007/04/02/reading_the_bible_leads_to_violence/comment-page-1#comment-56706</link>
		<dc:creator>DVanWechel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-56706</guid>
		<description>This kind of research seems flawed to me.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
How can the researches arrive at the conclusion that violent media (whether holy books, video games, movies, etc.) lead those that identify with the material to be more aggressive/violent without taking into account the histories of the subjects?&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Attributing aggressive behaviors to media seems awfully simplistic. It doesn&#039;t take into account social status (whether the individuals are wealthy or poor for example), education, upbringing, emotional intelligence, etc., etc., etc., ? all of which, it seems to me, would be factors in influencing/creating aggressive personalities and behaviors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This kind of research seems flawed to me.</p>
<p>How can the researches arrive at the conclusion that violent media (whether holy books, video games, movies, etc.) lead those that identify with the material to be more aggressive/violent without taking into account the histories of the subjects?</p>
<p>Attributing aggressive behaviors to media seems awfully simplistic. It doesn&#8217;t take into account social status (whether the individuals are wealthy or poor for example), education, upbringing, emotional intelligence, etc., etc., etc., ? all of which, it seems to me, would be factors in influencing/creating aggressive personalities and behaviors.</p>
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		<title>By: Celebrant Prince</title>
		<link>http://atheists.org/blog/2007/04/02/reading_the_bible_leads_to_violence/comment-page-1#comment-56708</link>
		<dc:creator>Celebrant Prince</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-56708</guid>
		<description>My son, 17, is a self-pronounced atheist.  He also watches and plays moderately violent video games, but doesn&#039;t go in much for the extremely graphically violent ones.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He understands that this is simply fantasy role-playing.  He doesn&#039;t identify with the characters beyond that.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He is a very sweet, loving, caring person who deplores actual violence.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
He also happens to deplore the violence depicted in the Bible, because he knows that the Bible isn&#039;t touted as fiction by the general public, but rather they believe it to be historical fact.  He knows that to act violently is wrong and hurtful.  He also knows that way too many people see certain acts of violence as right and helpful because they believe God says it is.  He is very sad for these people.  He also avoids them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My son, 17, is a self-pronounced atheist.  He also watches and plays moderately violent video games, but doesn&#8217;t go in much for the extremely graphically violent ones.</p>
<p>He understands that this is simply fantasy role-playing.  He doesn&#8217;t identify with the characters beyond that.</p>
<p>He is a very sweet, loving, caring person who deplores actual violence.</p>
<p>He also happens to deplore the violence depicted in the Bible, because he knows that the Bible isn&#8217;t touted as fiction by the general public, but rather they believe it to be historical fact.  He knows that to act violently is wrong and hurtful.  He also knows that way too many people see certain acts of violence as right and helpful because they believe God says it is.  He is very sad for these people.  He also avoids them.</p>
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		<title>By: FlyingWeasel</title>
		<link>http://atheists.org/blog/2007/04/02/reading_the_bible_leads_to_violence/comment-page-1#comment-56710</link>
		<dc:creator>FlyingWeasel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-56710</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;participants read a passage adapted from the King James Bible that described a woman&#039;s brutal murder and her husband&#039;s revenge on her attackers. Half the participants were told that the passage came from the Old Testament, half that it came from an ancient scroll found by archeologists. Half the participants from each of these groups read a version of the passage that included a sentence in which God commanded his followers to take arms against others&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I wonder what &quot;adapted&quot; means...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
of course... the whole bible was &quot;adapted&quot; into the kings english, from versions which had been &quot;adapted&quot; by hand from one generation to the next, from versions which were &quot;adapted&quot; into latin by monks...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I guess the important thing is what the students &lt;i&gt;beleived&lt;/i&gt; they were reading. ie: the word of god.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>participants read a passage adapted from the King James Bible that described a woman&#8217;s brutal murder and her husband&#8217;s revenge on her attackers. Half the participants were told that the passage came from the Old Testament, half that it came from an ancient scroll found by archeologists. Half the participants from each of these groups read a version of the passage that included a sentence in which God commanded his followers to take arms against others</p></blockquote>
<p>I wonder what &#8220;adapted&#8221; means&#8230;</p>
<p>of course&#8230; the whole bible was &#8220;adapted&#8221; into the kings english, from versions which had been &#8220;adapted&#8221; by hand from one generation to the next, from versions which were &#8220;adapted&#8221; into latin by monks&#8230;</p>
<p>I guess the important thing is what the students <i>beleived</i> they were reading. ie: the word of god.</p>
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		<title>By: st.lucifer</title>
		<link>http://atheists.org/blog/2007/04/02/reading_the_bible_leads_to_violence/comment-page-1#comment-56713</link>
		<dc:creator>st.lucifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-56713</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;Violent stories that teach moral lessons or that are balanced with descriptions of victims&#039; suffering or the aggressor&#039;s remorse can teach important lessons and have legitimate artistic merit. But taking a single violent episode out of its overall context, as we did in these studies, can produce a significant increase in aggression.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
But there is hardly any Biblical violent stories that balance it with descriptions of remorse or suffering. That is, unless the suffering is jewish (OT) or christian (NT).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8220;Violent stories that teach moral lessons or that are balanced with descriptions of victims&#8217; suffering or the aggressor&#8217;s remorse can teach important lessons and have legitimate artistic merit. But taking a single violent episode out of its overall context, as we did in these studies, can produce a significant increase in aggression.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>
But there is hardly any Biblical violent stories that balance it with descriptions of remorse or suffering. That is, unless the suffering is jewish (OT) or christian (NT).</p>
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		<title>By: cry4turtles</title>
		<link>http://atheists.org/blog/2007/04/02/reading_the_bible_leads_to_violence/comment-page-1#comment-56714</link>
		<dc:creator>cry4turtles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-56714</guid>
		<description>DVan, excellent points.  However, common sense keeps poking me in the shoulder and telling me that consistent exposure to violence, especially sanctioned violence without conseqenses, has to have some kind of desensitizing effect.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
For example, did you see the Chinese delegate that flinched when there was an explosion?  He was ready to hit the ditch!  The Middle Eastern delegates who were standing next to the Chinese fella never batted an eyelash.  My guess--they were used to it, and quite desensitized.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DVan, excellent points.  However, common sense keeps poking me in the shoulder and telling me that consistent exposure to violence, especially sanctioned violence without conseqenses, has to have some kind of desensitizing effect.</p>
<p>For example, did you see the Chinese delegate that flinched when there was an explosion?  He was ready to hit the ditch!  The Middle Eastern delegates who were standing next to the Chinese fella never batted an eyelash.  My guess&#8211;they were used to it, and quite desensitized.</p>
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		<title>By: DD Dropout</title>
		<link>http://atheists.org/blog/2007/04/02/reading_the_bible_leads_to_violence/comment-page-1#comment-56715</link>
		<dc:creator>DD Dropout</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-56715</guid>
		<description>This is a further exploration of Milgram&#039;s work to determine if people are more willing to cause pain to strangers if they are first told by an authority figure that it is deserved.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Just like Shrek said, we are like onions, made up of layers.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Most people are very squeamish about what lies under the skin of a human&#039;s body. We work very hard at not thinking about it and generally succeed, often for long stretches of time. That is, barring reminders from shows like House and the media of violence, and even then...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Likewise what we consider our self is the intellectual layer which spends much of its time pretending not to be   influenced by the emotional layers hidden away underneath.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Imagine if you were the one that had pushed the button and what sorts of coping mechanisms would need to be invoked to absolve the guilt. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Consider how the religious lie to themselves intellectually in order to hold onto their emotionally rewarding thoughts of an afterlife, etc. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Given that more than half of the people on the planet do this, it must be considered normative human behaviour and we are the exceptions, in this area at least.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I feel fortunate that I did not grow up in a conflict zone like Belfast or Beirut or Baghdad. I will never know, but just looking at the effects on all those people, the raw odds say that I would have hated and sought revenge, in spite of what I like to think about myself.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The sun is shining and I am going to hug someone close.&lt;br /&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a further exploration of Milgram&#8217;s work to determine if people are more willing to cause pain to strangers if they are first told by an authority figure that it is deserved.</p>
<p>Just like Shrek said, we are like onions, made up of layers.</p>
<p>Most people are very squeamish about what lies under the skin of a human&#8217;s body. We work very hard at not thinking about it and generally succeed, often for long stretches of time. That is, barring reminders from shows like House and the media of violence, and even then&#8230;</p>
<p>Likewise what we consider our self is the intellectual layer which spends much of its time pretending not to be   influenced by the emotional layers hidden away underneath.</p>
<p>Imagine if you were the one that had pushed the button and what sorts of coping mechanisms would need to be invoked to absolve the guilt. </p>
<p>Consider how the religious lie to themselves intellectually in order to hold onto their emotionally rewarding thoughts of an afterlife, etc. </p>
<p>Given that more than half of the people on the planet do this, it must be considered normative human behaviour and we are the exceptions, in this area at least.</p>
<p>I feel fortunate that I did not grow up in a conflict zone like Belfast or Beirut or Baghdad. I will never know, but just looking at the effects on all those people, the raw odds say that I would have hated and sought revenge, in spite of what I like to think about myself.</p>
<p>The sun is shining and I am going to hug someone close.</p>
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		<title>By: maddogstu</title>
		<link>http://atheists.org/blog/2007/04/02/reading_the_bible_leads_to_violence/comment-page-1#comment-56717</link>
		<dc:creator>maddogstu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-56717</guid>
		<description>Back when I was a believer, I bought into the love thy neighbor part, and violence w/r to religion seemed odd.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Some of the new video games are pretty damn realistic. I&#039;ve had a few flashbacks after playing BF2.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back when I was a believer, I bought into the love thy neighbor part, and violence w/r to religion seemed odd.</p>
<p>Some of the new video games are pretty damn realistic. I&#8217;ve had a few flashbacks after playing BF2.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://atheists.org/blog/2007/04/02/reading_the_bible_leads_to_violence/comment-page-1#comment-56719</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-56719</guid>
		<description>Ho hum...  more of the same tired arguments about Christianity and the Bible.  Once again, Bible passages have been taken completely out of context.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
The researchers actually could have saved a lot of time by simply studying Islam&#039;s effects on its adherents!  What more evidence would they need?  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ho hum&#8230;  more of the same tired arguments about Christianity and the Bible.  Once again, Bible passages have been taken completely out of context.</p>
<p>The researchers actually could have saved a lot of time by simply studying Islam&#8217;s effects on its adherents!  What more evidence would they need?</p>
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		<title>By: Apple_Christmas</title>
		<link>http://atheists.org/blog/2007/04/02/reading_the_bible_leads_to_violence/comment-page-1#comment-56720</link>
		<dc:creator>Apple_Christmas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-56720</guid>
		<description>Tim:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
forgive me for asking, since I&#039;m relatively new here and these questions may have been answered already...&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
But what exactly &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; the correct &quot;context&quot; of dashing babies against rocks, putting people to death for collecting sticks on the Sabbath, bears slaughtering children for making fun of an old man, etc... ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim:</p>
<p>forgive me for asking, since I&#8217;m relatively new here and these questions may have been answered already&#8230;</p>
<p>But what exactly <i>is</i> the correct &#8220;context&#8221; of dashing babies against rocks, putting people to death for collecting sticks on the Sabbath, bears slaughtering children for making fun of an old man, etc&#8230; ?</p>
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		<title>By: End Of Faith</title>
		<link>http://atheists.org/blog/2007/04/02/reading_the_bible_leads_to_violence/comment-page-1#comment-56721</link>
		<dc:creator>End Of Faith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-56721</guid>
		<description>Tim you say that bible verses are taken out of context when we make claims that the Bible is a very violent book.  This is a boldfaced lie and I think that you know it.  In Genesis God kills all living things (innocent babies included) from the planet except for a very select few and later kills everyone (babies included) in the towns of Sodom and Gomorrah except again for a select few.  In Exodus your evil God hardens Pharaohs heart who then kills all the male children and thus is a mass murderer of children by proxy.  Also in Exodus your disgusting God commands that all children who hit or curse their parents are required to be put to death as are those who work on the Sabbath.  Leviticus is too full of acts which must be punished by death as per directions from God such as adultery, male homosexuality, sex with animals, witchcraft, and prostitution.  Even the peace loving hippy-god Jesus commands his followers to hate their mothers and fathers before they can be his followers.  Tell me just how did I take any of this violence out of context?  God is very clear and very blac and white with his demands and commandemnts of his followers.  People like you are one of the reasons I respect the religious fundamentalists such as Fred Phelps because they at least truly believe the batshit crazy things that their god tells them to do.  He wants to kill gay people and adulterers and those who work on Sunday as commanded by his god but people like you gloss over the gore and sex to pick and choose those parts which are not at odds with  modernity and being sane.  Either you belive all of the insanity that passes for Christianity or you believe none of it.       </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim you say that bible verses are taken out of context when we make claims that the Bible is a very violent book.  This is a boldfaced lie and I think that you know it.  In Genesis God kills all living things (innocent babies included) from the planet except for a very select few and later kills everyone (babies included) in the towns of Sodom and Gomorrah except again for a select few.  In Exodus your evil God hardens Pharaohs heart who then kills all the male children and thus is a mass murderer of children by proxy.  Also in Exodus your disgusting God commands that all children who hit or curse their parents are required to be put to death as are those who work on the Sabbath.  Leviticus is too full of acts which must be punished by death as per directions from God such as adultery, male homosexuality, sex with animals, witchcraft, and prostitution.  Even the peace loving hippy-god Jesus commands his followers to hate their mothers and fathers before they can be his followers.  Tell me just how did I take any of this violence out of context?  God is very clear and very blac and white with his demands and commandemnts of his followers.  People like you are one of the reasons I respect the religious fundamentalists such as Fred Phelps because they at least truly believe the batshit crazy things that their god tells them to do.  He wants to kill gay people and adulterers and those who work on Sunday as commanded by his god but people like you gloss over the gore and sex to pick and choose those parts which are not at odds with  modernity and being sane.  Either you belive all of the insanity that passes for Christianity or you believe none of it.</p>
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