Well, actually they were already on the list, but here’s a great link to the Secular Islam Declaration of St. Petersburg. A very interesting (and heartening) read.http://secularislam.org/blog/post/SI_Blog/21/The-St-Petersburg-Declaration
Well, actually they were already on the list, but here’s a great link to the Secular Islam Declaration of St. Petersburg. A very interesting (and heartening) read.http://secularislam.org/blog/post/SI_Blog/21/The-St-Petersburg-Declaration
Secular and Muslim, both?
I don’t buy it.
This declaration makes me think that maybe, just maybe, there is hope for mankind yet. Now, if we could just get a similar statement from the radical right wing Christian element in this country (sigh).
I sent an e-mail to the delegates praising their vision and their bravery. Good on them.
Well, I tried to send them an e-mail. Got bounced back
OFF TOPIC
Sorry, but this had to be posted:
http://www.godTube.com
yes, it is what you think it is.
Oh indeed, it is. Eeeeeeewwwww!!!
Ha! The muslims beat the christians to something resembling to sanity.
Tarma, thanks for the information about the email, I will wait and try in a couple of days.
There’s also an Islamtube:
http://www.islamtube.com/
Seems like everyone’s getting their own ‘tube’ (squalid as that sounds).
Howzabout we get 1 of our own?
Well, these folks seem to be (back on) the right track.
Lest we forget history, we need to remember the rich secular history of Islam; their embrace of astronomy, mathematics, biology-based medicine, etc.
I could be wrong, but it wasn’t until the Crusades that Islam went fanatical. And who invaded who back then?
The first battery known to have existed was located in Iraq and dated at about 3000 years. It?s hard to believe that such a promising people regressed so far. Perhaps the more names they can add to their list, the closer they?ll come to decreasing the brutality of their religion.
Wouldn?t it be ironic if this movement takes hold and becomes the model for other religions to reform? We could finally have world peace!
Well, at least it would make for good fiction.
Comment from: Celebrant Prince
Who did invade who first…?
Comment from: cry4turtles
Can you explain this statement further…?
Okay, now listen carefully. A battery was discovered in the deserts of Iraq, you know, right smack in today’s war zone. It was dated to be 3000 years old. That means somebody made it 3000 years ago. Pretty amazing huh?
Can’t…eloborate…any…further…
must…go…to…bed…
There’s a bit of info on this in the latest Podcast from the Center for Inquiry.
http://pointofinquiry.org
It is followed by an awesome interview with a former radical muslim who was at one point a member of an al-qaeda affiliated terror group.
He is reformed, and while still considers himself a believing muslim, he pulls no punches in laying the blame directly where it needs to be.
While these guys aren’t flat-out renouncing their blood thirsty imaginary friends, it’s astep in the right direction.
I appreciate the sentiment of the declaration but the following paragraph needs work if they want to appear the least bit realistic.
“We find traditions of liberty, rationality, and tolerance in the rich histories of pre-Islamic and Islamic societies. These values do not belong to the West or the East; they are the common moral heritage of humankind.”
Liberty, rationality and tolerance? Common?
On this planet?
It’s way past due for Islam to have a Reformation and an Enlightenment. Some brave souls are speaking out. The Declaration of St Petersburg and a book I’ve read by Irshad Manji titled _The Trouble with Islam Today_ give me hope for Humanity.
Secular everywhere and everything sounds good about now.
Phreedm-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_Battery
Its a plating device that uses the same principles as a modern battery. I don’t think it was used as a power source.
—————————–
I hope the Secular Islam thing gains some traction. I also wish the Universal Declaration of Human Rights was a little more visible in the media.
Jackass brayed:[Can you explain this statement further...?]
Soytenly, Phreedummy. I believe the battle is right in your Buybull(shit), in the Old Testament….ya know….the jewy parts?
King of All Assclowns inquired:[Who did invade who first...?]
You know damn well you can find out using the Googles on The Internets, asshole.
come on guys this is bs, of course they are playing nice.let them become a majority and you will see a different side this is true for all religions they favor civil rights when in the minority but not when they are majority.
what do you think they say when no non muslims are around.we are fools to trust these people.
I think it’s a step in the right direction and I honestly fear for them. Questioning Islam has a long way to go but I’m glad it’s shifting.
I emailed them support to promote tolerance.
Phreedm is a dumbas,
Can you please refrain from insults?
I serously doubt that ANY organized religion will ever truly be supportive of those secular values promulgated in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. They might pay some lip service to this document, but their goals are at odds with its principles; and if they had the power to do so, they would quickly institute a theocracy that would deprive us atheists of our freedom, personal liberties, and independent thought in short order.
Religion and the religious will never be a boon or ally to us non-believers. They will only appear to side with us when it suits their purpose.
I suspected these people had to exist. One can only hope they can build a large following.
While I am skeptical about the ability of any religion to embrace human values, truth or justice, it is a step toward the right direction. Much better than a suicide bombing.
I would support them for that, for the same reason i support trade with china. Where the is common ground, there is business. Where business goes, information follows. The change from the radical to reasonable will take time, maybe generations. Not all will agree even given the information. It should be our goal to give that information freely and show it’s strengths. It is all we can do while allowing for freedom of choice.
Who invaded who?
Well, lessee…
The fighting for the most part took place in “the Holy Land”, where today is what we know as Israel, Lebanon, Iraq, etc.
The Crusades lasted for approximately 250 years. It was comprised of seven major campaigns.
Europeans, such as Italians, Englanders, Spaniards, etc., mounted armies to take the fight to the enemy. The enemy that wasn’t in Italy, England, Spain, etc.
The Europeans took their armies into the countries of the Muslims, and waged war against them.
The xtians invaded the Muslims. Are we clear?
prheedm don’t do history…
um….I hate to side with phreedm, but the Muslims were the first to invade the Christians.
“In the 8th century, nearly all the Iberian peninsula was quickly conquered (711?718) by mainly Berber Muslims (see Moors) from North Africa.”
and
“The Crusades were a series of military conflicts of a religious character waged by Christians from 1095-1291, usually sanctioned by the Pope in the name of Christendom,[1] with the goal of recapturing Jerusalem and the sacred “Holy Land” from Muslim rule….”
(both quotes from Wikipedia)
Celebrant,
Not so fast. You obviously are no student of history! pixel is right, it was the Muslims whose legendary brutality, particularly in Spain, finally forced the Christian nations to act.
Christian Europe first drove the Muslim hordes out of Europe proper before they finally got to the Holy Land.
etc. etc. etc
What’s interesting is studying the political and military strategy of the Muslims, particularly at the height of their power and influence.
It’s chilling, really because they talk and act the same way today as they did 700 years ago! When the Muslims conquered a city or country they gave you a choice: convert to Islam or be put to death. Sound familiar?
Gee, I wonder what Ann Coulter would choose.
She’d probably screw her way to the top of the shitmound.
“It?s hard to believe that such a promising people regressed so far.”
The people who live in Iraq today, or even a thousand years ago, are not the same people who lived in the region 3,000 years ago.
There was the Arab-Islamic conquest after 700 CE. The same is true for Egypt. The people there now have nothing to do with the people who built the pyramides.
Charles Martel defeated the Arabs at the battle of Tours-Poitiers in 732 CE.
I wish this group well, but they have a tough row to hoe.
http://islam-watch.org/others/Death_Fatwa_Taslima.htm
“In a news conference a couple of days ago the President of All India Muslim Personal Board Maulana Tauqeer Raza Khan said that if the Government of India doesn?t restrict Taslima Nasreen from entering India then he was announcing a 5 lakhs (approx US$11,363) reward for any faithful Muslim who would behead Taslima.
Taslima Nasreen is a woman who grew up in Bangladesh and became a rationalist and who has criticized religion in her writings. She wrote various newspaper articles that dared to criticize Islam as part of the force behind the oppression of women in her native land as well as a later novel called Lajja (Shame) that highlighted the plight of the countries minority Hindus who faced pogroms and mistreatment particularly in the wake of the Babri demolition in neighboring India.”
It seems that ignorance, stupidity, and misogyny are the primary requirements to becoming an imam or other muslim leader. The dumber and more assholy you are, the higher you rise in the hierarchy. Sounds like the Bush administration.
I mean these guys base their whole life on one small book which wasn’t even written by its supposed inspirerer.
Greetings,
I took the time to read the vaunted Koran last winter. It was a “tough slog.” It seemed that there is a reference to hell and “garments of fire” on every other page. The Koran is an insult to humanity. The only good news is that the Koran is a lot shorter than the Babble.
However, the way I understand it, Islam is not only based upon the stupid, ignorant suras of Mo(Larry, Curly) hammed, but also on the Haditha which is a collection of traditions of Mo(hey Mo) hammed. I am trying to learn more about this stupid and very dangerous religion that is long overdue for an age of enlightenment.