DAVE’S OPINIONA straw poll of Repuplican Activists prefer Mitt Romney, a man who literally wears underwear that he thinks protects him from evil, to be the most powerful man in the world.OK folks, I’m going out on a limb here and using a word I rarely use — stupid. Can you imagine it. Watching the State of the Union being given by a man wearing magic underwear. Korean, Afghani, Iranian, and Chinese leaders negotiating for peace, knowing full well that their American counterpart thinks the magic underwear protects him from evil. It’s stupid, people. It’s stupid to think your underwear is magic, and it’s stupid to think the world will respect him – or us — if we elect him to lead the world into the new millenium.Remember: When you think Mitt Romney, your’re thinking Magic Underwear!!!
The garment and the covenants made in conjunction with it are believed to be a spiritual “shield and protection” against the powers of evil (and sometimes against physical harm, according to some Latter-day Saints).
Sikhs have undergarments as one of their religious things too. There are bad haircuts, lucky charms and funny hats all over the religious map.
I wonder whether christianity didn’t gain popularity partly due to the fact that starting out as a persecuted cult it didn’t require open identification.
Anyway, magic long-johns don’t seem any worse than the rest of the nonsense.
Well, the magical underoos aren’t any sillier than any other religious vestments, but, man, they are pretty silly!
karen:
You & alex, tsk, tsk, what hedonists y’all are. Hehehehe.
Errr, ummm…I think he got it from me. Or caught it from me. I…did…it…first…at…least…on…this…blog.
Of course, I tend to be a bit more frugal than he is.
What shall be my penance, oh goddess of the godless?
DVanWechel: I certainly agree with you “Few things.. can influence a policy maker’s decisions more than their deeply held religious beliefs.”
And just like you “The more devout they profess to be, the less likely I am to vote for them.”
Public expressions of piety are usually inversely proportional to sincere religious devotion. The more a politician thumps the scriptures, the less likely it it s/he actually follows them.
All I was saying is that Romney’s Mormonism is insufficient to hold against him as a candidate, as should be any candidate’s religious affiliation. It’s the secular things they stand for that counts.
KA
He got that from you, did he!
Well.
You must be punished my dear.
I shall dwell abit on your penance, but rest assured, it will be hedonistic!
…………………………….!!!
karen:
I shall be waiting with masochistic glee…err, humble shame I mean…
Phreedm asked:
?phideaux…so do you consider yourself an atheist…?
When I left Mormonism, I spent about 3 years attending Christian churches and reading the Bible. The more I read the Bible, the more problems I noticed. I had developed good bologna detection skills to dump Mormonism and I couldn?t turn them off for Christianity. I began to intensely study world mythology. To make a long story short, yes, I?m an atheist. Sagan?s Demon Haunted World and Thomas Paine?s Age of Reason woke me from my religious slumber. I knew I lacked belief but I didn?t call myself an atheist until I read George Smith?s The Case Against God.
To GodFree&Glad:
About the Mormon Church trying to deliberately put a guy in the White House: I would doubt it. The Mormon Church very much wants successful prominent people in the public view because they are very obsessed with their public image and being missionaries. They do like legislators and judges in power that favor religious agendas. They have old teachings that tell of the end days when Mormonism will take over the world (as if). So, naturally members of the church see Mormon politicians as a gradual fulfillment of that teaching. Mormons have a hard time separating government and religion, as you can tell if you examine the politics of the state of Utah. The Mormon ?brethren? call the shots there.
To rna2dna:
Yes, Blood of the Prophets is a good read. The massacre you are referring to is called the Mountain Meadow Massacre. Much to the dismay of the Mormon Church, there is soon to be a movie out about that event. What most people don?t know is that during that time in the frontier days, Brigham Young, the Mormon prophet, added a vow in the temple telling people to avenge the death of Joseph Smith. It is very hard for the Mormon Church to insist some rebel members did the killing. In reality, they were just acting on the vow they made and BY knew it.
To Zac Hunter and Apple Christmas:
We do know Mitt has been to the Mormon temple. Once you go through, you wear the garment thereafter. He has church leadership positions high enough that it is a given he wears them. Now if he actually believes it is another question. It is a huge investment of time, money and effort to just play along if you don?t believe. He gives the party lines. I suspect he buys it for the most part.
Phideaux
Thanks for the very nice post. Wonderful insight!
PS: Interacting with trolls like Phreedy drags the discussion down to a predicatbly childish level.
“The massacre you are referring to is called the Mountain Meadow Massacre.”
Is this the one they blamed on either the Ute or the Paiute Indians? I can’t remember which ones. Nice folks-those Morons (I mean Mormons).
Celebrant Prince:
I completely agree.
cry4turtles asked:
“Is this the one they blamed on either the Ute or the Paiute Indians? I can’t remember which ones. Nice folks-those Morons (I mean Mormons).”
Yep, that’s the one. The Injuns done it, and maybe a couple bad apple Mormons who were “acting on their own.”
(That’s their story, but there is a lot more to it.)
It was the first and biggest 9/11 (1857) terrorist attack we had…faded by history.
To Noelle and Phideaux-
That is a good point that we can infer something about Mitt’s critical thinking skills. And, if Phideaux is right that he is sufficiently high enough in the institution that certain things are given, like wearing said magic underoos, that adds evidence to those inferences. I almost mentioned that as an afterthought.
Still, he also has a record of being a social liberal. Some people can miraculously separate their personal beliefs from the obligation laid out by the constitution and try to actually uphold civil liberties, even if they hate those they stand for. I try to give the benefit of the doubt until hard facts prove me wrong (I guess that makes me a political sucker).
Democracy is so messy. And there is often little balance between the tyranny of the majority and true utilitarian decisions. A good politician should try to balance his obligation to his constituents and any minorities that may be marginalized. Now, I am not saying I will wait until he is president to start observing, but I need more empirical data than the possibility that he wears funny undies to completely shun him on principle. (that said, I wouldn’t vote for him anyway just on political grounds. His party preference clearly demarcates an ideological divide and association I can’t back).
Phreedm-
The Tennessee Constitution is literally incoherent on that matter. It mandates two criterion that cannot be simultaneously enforced. The atheist disqualification clause is more a gesture, a slap in the face. Nice. But it also bans test oaths in Section 4 of Article I. Thats a bad thing when major documents are incoherent. This renders the rule unenforcible. Too bad.
Its also against federal law and was rendered unconstitutional by supreme court decisions as well as the First and Fourteenth amendment to the US constitution. Thankfully, the founders were better prepared to fight against discrimination than Tennesseans in 1870.
Thats what things like the bill of rights are for. They create a distinction between legitimate utilitarian decisions (the goal of democracy) and mob rule over the minority – tyranny of the majority. I would hate to see a change of events, amusing as it may be, where a majority of atheists somehow barred theists from holding office.
And no, in response to your other assertion, I don’t think we freak out over religious groups marginalizing us, they do it all the time. Instead we organize, rally, discuss and try to change the situation by standing for said constitutional rights. You’re a speed bump.
Zac Hunter,
Here’s one more example for you to consider. The Book of Mormon, the cornerstone scripture of the religion, teaches the Native Americans (some of them at least) are a tribe of Israel. The book claims American Indians were a branch of Jews who came across the Atlantic (who were able to speak ?reformed Egyptian?!).
Now of course there are apologetic Mormons who try to make it slippery and claim we don’t know “exactly” which Native Americans were actually the people called Lamanites in the BoM or if they are alive today. ?It COULD have happened,? they?ll say. They have mental gymnastics of Olympic quality to explain how the hokey history in the BoM “might” fit in to real history. You have to suspend modern knowledge of anthropology to believe the claims in the book.
So, given that the average Mormon claims he “knows” the BoM is “true,” would you want someone so religiously thwarted in their knowledge of world history to be the leader of the free world? I’m not sure how we can know how well Mitt can separate the mythology from reality. Believe me, Mitt cannot come out and say he does not believe in the BoM or he would be ostracized by his religion.
I think we can see from Dubya and current situations what happens when people have religious world views applied world problems. For example, they don’t learn from history because they view it through a religious filter. Religion gives people a sense of entitlement to The Truth. It is a very dangerous mentality, in my opinion.
I?m not just picking on Mitt. If there were a creationist fundy running for president you would have to question his ability to process information and make decisions. Religious beliefs don?t always stay in a vacuum bubble in the brain. They influence the decisions of the person.
mitt is a flip flopper thats the problem, anything to get a vote.why do so many people have to keep falling for the fake religious act of pols.
i cannot wait to see a candidate handle snakes and speak in tongues.
-Phideaux
If Mitt actually believes that stuff about the Indians, then I would say he might be unfit for office.
hey Phideaux,
I wanted to ask you this after reading your response to my wife (whose Jewish). Since “The book claims American Indians were a branch of Jews who came across the Atlantic” what do Mormons think of actual Jewish people? Is it basically the same crap that christians would say? Something about not following the “messiah” or losing their way or some crap like that? Just curious.
And just so you know, I really enjoy reading your posts. After reading what you had to say I literally spent HOURS looking up everything you had mentioned. So thanks for the edjamacation
does it irk anyone else when you see someone run for a different office when they haven’t completed the term of office they already hold.
reason: It does somewhat irk me when someone runs for a different office without completing the term of office they already hold. But what irks me more is when these office holders neglect their constituents and the completion of an agenda they were entrusted to. I favor removal of magic underwear or any obstacles getting in the way of office holders getting down to the nitty gritty of true public service. I admit supporting that which is “aux naturale” (sp?) I would require public servants to bare all including their souls if such a requirement would ensure our having public servants who are trustworthy diligent, respectable, and loyal to the public.
Hi Saladin in training,
Oddly, the Mormons have a different twist with their ideas about Jews. They honestly have a high opinion of the Jews and feel they are kin to Jews with just a little more ?truth.? In fact, they call non-Mormons ?gentiles.?
They give something called ?patriarchal blessings? to the members. In this individual private blessing, it is revealed to the recipient which tribe of Israel they belong to or which one they were adopted into.
I think the general idea is that Jews will see the light later when they are given a chance to know what Mormons know (gag).
Here?s the amusing thing. In the Mormon temples, there is a ritual done for each person which gives him the knowledge to be accepted into the highest degree of heaven (it involves being given a secret name, a few handshakes and code words- very Masonic). They do this ritual by proxy for dead people. I myself probably went through for up to 100 dead people over my lifetime. This is why Mormons do genealogy, to have new lists of names of dead people who need this ?work? done. The goal is to do this work for every person who ever lived as far as possible. Don?t ask me why they don?t just do one ritual on behalf of all the people who ever lived one time and be done with it. This project keeps the members busy and focused doing church work all the time.
(You?ll be happy to know the work has even been done for Hitler, along with a ?sealing? of Hitler to Eva for an eternal marriage. That way the work is done and God can decide from there.) Apparently God is very anal and will reject you if you don?t know the club words to get into the Celestial Kingdom.
Well, most people let the Mormons do their little hokey poky in the temple and ignore them, kind of like the crazy uncle is tolerated. No harm done. It is rather insulting to realize the Mormons have done this work for most of your dead relatives so the relative can ?choose? to be Mormon in heaven.
But the Jews don?t take this well! They get pissed and vocal and have made demands Mormons stop doing this work for the dead devoted Jews, many who died for their beliefs. The Mormons keep saying they won?t do temple work for Jews, but the truth is they don?t really have a mechanism to know who is Jewish so they keep doing it anyway. Besides, they honestly think the Jews will be grateful it was done anyway over the protests when they all get to heaven. Every once in a while there will be an article in the paper about some irritated Jewish people demanding the Mormons stop insulting them. My hat is off to them! I wish more religions and cultural groups would demand Mormons stop this disrespectful practice with their dead relatives? names also.
So, oddly, the Mormons think they are pals to the Jews and the Jews think the Mormons are disrespectful nuts.
However, over the years, Mormonism is maturing and adapting like any other religion. The young members barely know the real teachings of the early Mormon prophets. I know Mormons who are completely unaware Joseph Smith had several wives. Most do not know the history of the Mormons, let alone anything about the Jews. The young modern Mormon likely considers Jews like every other person who is not a Mormon: someone who does not have as much truth as them. Sigh.
Sorry this is so long. You have no idea how disgusted I am that 5 generations of my family believed this crap.
Phideaux the thing that pisses me off about these LDS’ is they come knocking at my door every year. I’ve called the cops, (they laughed) I’ve told them to put me on a DNC list, I’ve even threatened to show up at one of their meetings and give ‘em what for. Yet still they call. Because there might be new people living here, or “I might have have changed my mind” The tragic thing is there is no evidence whatsoever of a post-mortem existence for us humans on this planet so what they are doing is pure self-indulgent pointless superstition.
Hello All:
This is my first blog. I just found this site doing a google for “Magic Underware”. Bill Maher was poking fun at the issue last night and it made me curious.
Is there any reason that power brokers all seem to have this notion that they have to believe in God. It seems weird that smart people who can make world changing moves would be so stupid as to act as if they know things that cannot be proven and contradict science. Are there any prominent atheists in office or politics?
EvolutionRevolution,
Rep. Pete Stark (D-Calif.) is the only one that has opened the closet door. We can assume there are others but they apparently don’t think they will get enough support to make it politically viable for them to admit their intelligence, how unfortunate for everyone in the United States. I am envious of those that can claim an Atheist representative.
http://www.secular.org/news/pete_stark_070312.html
http://www.nysun.com/article/50312
thank you rna2dna. I appreciate the info.
You look like a f***ing Jew. (Ex-Juden?) Doesn’t your Tribe wear all sorts of strange garments? I mean, if this is a contest over what religion has the most bizarre appearance, the Yids have it hands-down. Runner-ups would be the Jigs, I suppose, with all their African BS (even though most couldn’t find Africa on a map). And of course, you atheists, who think of yourselves as so superior, so intellectual, so “in the know” . . . yet you all wear that same bizarre blanket of moral relativism that make you the Clowns of the Universe. Perhaps some Magic Unides might do you good. Who knows, it might have kept your Great Heroine, the hideously ugly Madeleine O’Hair from “losing her head.”