There I so much I hate about funerals. They never seem to do justice to the departed. It is at once mundane to the practitioners and intense for the customers.Today’s was no different. Now, I’m not saying the funeral was bad per se, I’m saying that the departed person was not celebrated enough, and recieved a rather cookie-cutter service.It was a religious Jewish service, which means it was short (nice). Lots of talk about the wonderful god we all need to praise constantly and without question. No talk about how a loving god needed to take a great person and make her suffer for three years from cancer, finally to lose the battle and leave her 5 and 7 year-old girls mommyless. I realized that a lot of the stuff in the religious service may have been added to take up time — to speak for people for whom there is little to say. The unfortunate thing is that when there is much to say, there is too little time, and the important details of a person’s life can get muted by the mythology.
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Your story is a prime example why we, as atheists, need to outline our wishes for our funerals and make these known to our families. Personally a happy party celebrating my life is the way I want my service to be.
Therein the reason why I don’t want a funeral. Once I kick the bucket, burn me and send my ashes home in a Ziploc bag!
“Embrace your inner fish”
David,
Was there any kind of get-together at your friend’s house? If the deceased isn’t honored enough at the funeral, maybe her friends and family can have their own rememberance celebration at home. I’d actually prefer something like that to a traditional funeral.
Cremate me and do whatever with the ashes. I won’t care anymore.
I like the party idea. Gotta get that one into the will.
I have always imagined a party with people talking about all the good times they shared with me. A festive atmosphere, lively music, and save the tears for later.
Funerals are to publicized….they should be reserved to immediate family members and or close friends…..Every time I pass a grave site, I feel like rearranging all the head stones….crap…might as well build a enormous pyramid…
If my daughter becomes an orthopedic doc….then I wish for my bones to be displayed in a glass case hanging around at her work….if not….toss me in a backyard fire…..
I recently met lively 85-year man who, much like me, had his wishes of no relion, no funeral & cremation included in his will. Because of his age, he feels he doesn’t have too much longer to go so he summoned all his friens & relatives & threw a “von voyage” party for himself. How’s that for cool? He said he wanted to enjoy his funeral while he was still alive!
“Freya ? goddess of love. If you can?t lay ‘em, slay ‘em!”
Personally I have (if only informally) requested that my body be donated to science. I kind of like the idea of various medical students slicing and dicing my vestigial remains. Plus it saves my family the burden of funeral and undertaker expenses (I think).
A poetry reading at the resource center where I work produced a number of very Christian pieces about parental death. That meant a lot of “the angels have called him back” sentiments without many details about the deceased as actual people. I’m not inclined to critique anyone there — it’s enough that they’re willing to share their creative attempts. It was interesting, though, to see what emotion they attached to such generic Christian tropes — aware that they were negotiating deep feelings about their loved ones, but oblivious to the fact that they were memorializing Christian imagery rather than the deceased.
Maybe people want to make sense of death by mythologizing it, albeit poorly. It makes me think of stupid action-movie trailers — “One man, living in a world of….” It’s an emotional stroking, but intellectually vapid. It’s religion.
My mom decided years ago (before she converted to atheism a couple years ago) that she wanted her funeral to have music she liked, so she has kept a running list ever since. It includes Donna Summer, Billy Joel, Ray Charles, etc. We will be rocking.
My daughter (now age 6) was intrigued 3 years ago when we first visited a museum where they have a skeleton sitting on a bench in one of the “please touch” rooms. She decided then and there that that’s what she wants to do when she dies. Now she regularly tells people, “when you die, you can be buried, be burned up, or sit on a bench in a museum, and that’s what I’m going to do.”
The worst funeral I ever went to was a couple years ago for a great-uncle of mine. The minister mentioned my uncle’s name once at the beginning, and spent the rest of the service making pronouncement that began, “This person….” It was so insulting!
I’ll go along with the other writer who said donate my body to science, and then burn up the remains. I hate to be cold – the idea of being buried makes me shiver – ha ha!
Dina
I’ve always struggled with people praising god in church after god has taken their loved one back home.
Consider it. God took this person home = God had a hand in killing this person. And then we praise him? WTF? “Thanks, god, for taking my mommy away. That was a loving thing to do, and I really appreciate it because I know you won’t give me anything more than I can handle.”
Can you imagine praising someone on earth who had a hand in killing your loved one? “Oh, please, judge, don’t put him in jail. He killed my mommy, PRAISE BE TO HIM.” It just doesn’t make sense.
I think of this because my BF is not doing too well, and his mom told me not to be sad because “god is calling him”. We have planned his “life celebration”, and he’s given me complete power of attorney. We HAVE to do this, you see, because his family is not inclined to follow HIS wishes when he dies. We’ll be celebrating him at his favorite watering hole. Just a gathering of friends to tell stories and share our sadness. And that’s more for us (me) than him. His ashes will be scattered from the back of a motorcycle in the mountains of colorado. It would be really nice if I could do this minus the fight with his mother. She’ll try to take over. She’s already reminded me once that we’re not married, which is why I had to have a POA. Sad, really, but I guess to her god is more important than her son.
I really do try to be respectful of his mom & sister’s wishes, but then I wonder why because it’s clear they don’t respect his. His mom had a freaking priest come by the other day. Maybe it’s just me, but I thought it was an insulting slap in the face.
For myself, I’ll donate my body to science. I’ve had health problems, and a weird family history, so hopefully, they’ll learn something from me.
/sorry for rambling on…..
I’ve looked into donating my body to science too. Did you know they have a weight limit? 185 lbs. The school of medicine closest to me does that anyway.
But they will cremate what’s left of you when they’re done with you and send the remains back to whomever you’ve dictated.
I would want people to gather and party, as Alex does. (I’ve been mentally concocting the music list for a long time.) Not in a funeral home. Perhaps in my home. And when they leave, they can all take something with them; that’ll leave less for my kids to have to take care of.
HNZ and Karen,
When I was in high school and taking an advanced biology class we visited a local medical school’s anatomy lab. It was like something from a nightmare or Frankenstein movie and even though I would be dead and unable to feel anything what I saw there still disturbs me today. Ugh! I know that is a silly reaction and I am always promoting science but donating my body to have done to it what I saw in there just isn’t for me no matter how selfish that sounds. I still have flashbacks about that place.
I don’t mean to be disrespectuful, it is not my intent to triviliaze the solemn subject of death or to be politically incorrect and I apologize ahead of time if I offend someone (the Jesus Freaks excluded). However, I just can’t resist sharing George Carlin’s views on death. Here we go!
“When I die I don’t want to be buried, but I don’t want to be cremated either. I want to be blown up. Put me on a pile of explosives and blow me up. Or throw my body from a helicopter. That would be fun. One stipulation: wherever I land, you have to leave me there. Even if it’s the mayor’s lawn. Just let me lie there. But keep the dogs away.”
And here is George’s truism on the subject:
“It’s a perverse fact that in death you grow more popular. As soon as you’re out of everyone’s way, your approval curve moves sharply upward. You get more flowers when you die that you got your whole life. All your flowers arrive at once. Too late.”
“Live simply so that others may live.”
Alex
I understand your queasiness, since you saw the goings-on at a medical lab at an impressionable age.
I have a few misgivings about people possibly having a few laughs at the expense of my dead body, but other than that, I can think of no better use for my dead body than research and practice. I realize I might have an arm over here and a leg over there and my torso somewhere else. How much worse is it than having an autopsy done, really? Top of your skull cut off, your face peeled back, a big Y cut in your chest.
Even if I’m laughed over, I won’t notice, and better that a beginning surgeon makes mistakes on me than a live patient.
I’ve already dictated that no matter how or when I die my body is to be donated to science. The ashes that are returned are to be spread in the gardens at Graceland. I’ve had many arguements with my own (religious) mother about this, and that’s why I had it stipulated in my will that she is to have no say whatsoever in my care/death/funeral/etc. The problem with religious family members is that they think what they are doing (i.e. church services)is helpful to your soul, while it’s really only disrespectful to the memory of the deceased.
The last funeral I attended was for my best friend and her parents, all three had died in a car crash. The only thing I remember from the service was the preacher talking about how it was “god’s will” that these three healthy & young people “be with him”. Even though they left two younger sons behind. Just holding my tounge through the service was about more than I could stand.
hmmm…well if I die poor I guess i will donate my body to science and then have the ashes scattered no headstones or any of that nonsense. However if I`m wealthy i’ll try that cryogenics thing; Wake me when they cured that nastly little disease called aging.
I personally feel burials are a waste of good realestate, cremation seems to pose less of a burden
Heathen, Karen, & others,
Years ago I knew a woman who wanted to donate her body to science and she had made formal arrangements to have that done – It cost HER money!!! I don’t know if this is true where you live – but look into it before you make that decision – your family may have to pay to have your body donated!
Bones,
I’m sorry to hear that your BF is not doing well.
It makes me sick to hear that “God never gives us more than we can bear.” I read an article once where someone had lost her mother to cancer, and someone said that quote to her. She started crying and said, “You mean, if I were a weaker person, my mother would still be alive??”
Whenever someone uses that quote on me, I always tell them that that is the reason I try to remain weak and helpless!
Funerals are just a formalized way of saying good-bye. The important thing is how the person is remembered. My father died 17 years ago, but his memory remains alive in me and the things I say and do.
I do wish there were atheist funerals.
Or maybe they exist today.
I dated a Chinese-American woman many years ago. One of her uncles passed away. No one in her family was Christian, but they had to find a Protestant minister to do the funeral because there were no Confucianist clergymen around.
It would be a good idea to maintain an accurate mailing list of important friends and relatives, and to have a draft notice of your memorial service ready to go. The closest thing most of us will have to immortality is the bittersweet pleasure taken by our loved ones in recounting all of the bone-headed things we did while alive.
When my Athiest brother died (three years ago today, as a matter of coincidnece) we had hundreds of people turn out for his serivce. We had 6 or 7 speakers ( I was one of them) and finally the local food bank named the holiday fundraiser after my brother.
Then, 200 of us went to the Chinese restraunt and had a banquet. Not one mention of Jeebus. For a funeral, it was pretty cool.
i won’t bash religion on this if it helps someone get through their sorrow so be it.at dads funeral the pastor talked about their friendship.
and the importance of letting the people you love know it while your alive.myself i’d like a sendoff to the sounds of blue danuabe or maybe the ode to joy.
alex i thought only the kids from reform school were sent to see bodies cutup.
I have followed this thread so far with interest ; although I have not been to all that many funerals I now have two very firm convictions about them .
a) To anyone planning somebody else’s – I guess necessarily at pretty short notice – I would say “Imagine the person you are honouring sitting quietly at the back of the church/hall/room ; would he/she enjoy it … or at least approve of it ?”
b) Anything can get included , be it at the person’s request or (if someone else is organising) as long as there is a link to the person .
There is a Penguin book “Poems and Readings for Funerals” ed. Julia Watson published 2004 which has about 75 shortish pieces – a very few from the Bible , the expected Donne , Auden etc. but also Noel Coward and AA Milne [the last one in the section relating to children]- very highly recommended
“alex i thought only the kids from reform school were sent to see bodies cutup.”
You are thinking of prison. The teachers took all the brightest and most advanced biology students from several area high schools to this anatomy lab as a reward for getting high marks. Maybe it was my age (17 or 18) but it was just the most gruesome thing imaginable and the smell of preservative solution stayed on my clothes after being washed. Ugh! The weird thing is that I dont really think of myself as a queasy person but the sight of brains in jars, decpaitated heads, and open corpses with intestines and assorted viscera spilling onto tables made a strong impression on me and being an atheist I knew that these people were gone and that an entire life had been reduced to the nightmare splayed out on a table before me.
All this talk about what people want at thier funerals–what a bunch of selfish control freaks! If you want to dictate…throw a party while your still alive! Funerals are not for the dead, they are to help the living survive the loss of a loved one.
Religion seems to comfort people during these times, for a lot of us it doesn’t make any sense. But then it doesn’t have too..it’s about grief and the pain of losing a loved one. The quiet beauty of a church–the candles, the songs… a peaceful place to gather. It certainly doesn’t have to be in a church, but most people do and that’s what people belong to a church for—a place to marry and die.
And while an atheist most likely doesn’t belong to a church..their parents and siblings might, and if it brings them comfort then I’ll certainly not be spiteful about it.
Oh, Diane!
Boo hoo…
“All this talk about what people want at thier funerals–what a bunch of selfish control freaks!” Selfish because someone wants to be respected in death and wants to be treated and buried in consistency with the way they lived their lives instead of letting you Jesus Freaks run the show with your hypocrisy and voodoo? My, my, my…aren’t you a self-righteous controlling Jesus Freak???
“Funerals are not for the dead, they are to help the living survive the loss of a loved one.” But, but, but, Diane, if the sole of that person is with the good lard in heaven, eating ice cream, masturbating and stuff and it is only a matter of time before the loved ones and the stiff are reunited again thanks to the lard’s impotence, love and all that shit and they only live for the day they die, why do they need to be helped? Besides, what you are proposing is “Ah, forget the dead, let this be all about ME!” So, I propose, we put YOU in the coffin then and say, party on, mon!!!
“The quiet beauty of a church–the candles, the songs… a peaceful place to gather. It certainly doesn’t have to be in a church, but most people do and that’s what people belong to a church for—a place to marry and die.” Oh, yes, the quiet beauty of a church–the priest molesting little boys, no pants, no condoms…a place of utter corruption indeed. It certainly doesn’t have to be in a church, but it could also be during a Boy Scouts camping trip or in school…
Why don’t you go back and crawl under the church pew that you came out of for air, Diane? Oh, I have some news for you, GAWD IS DEAD!!!
“The last person that pissed me off got turned into a frog. You, however, won?t be that lucky!”
Diane i think you misunderstand us.we do want an effective way for loved ones to grieve.this is about respect for the dead.families have turned on each other over how to bury a loved one so its best to let people know while you can speak.by all means if someone wants a religious service that wish should be honored.
Reason— I understand about respecting the dead, and how families can get into serious quarrels over burials. Unfortunately I”ve seen it happen three times–twice over religion and once over cremation.
From those experiences I now view funerals as for the loved ones to grieve. And certainly a person has every right to inform their loved ones of how they would like to be honored in their death. I would advise making it clear to everyone though! Not just those who readily agree with you and then leave them to deal with your family! Because once you’re gone..you’re gone, and the living need to compromise if they come up against the strong wishes of a parent or sibling. That’s just how I feel.
darvinluvsu—That was quite a tirade! Go cry me a river baby because I’m an atheist through and through!
But you just go ahead and call me names. I touched a nerve because I said that funerals were for the living–their way to deal w/ the grief of losing a loved one. Well..sorry that upset you but that’s the way I feel. Oh and by-the-by “gawd” is not dead–you can’t kill something that was never there to bein with!
diane i too see funerals as a chance for the living to grieve.i think the lost of a child is the most heartbreaking.believer or nonbeliever
that has got to kill a parent inside.
Diane:
Emotion is what I’m all about and nothing will ever change that because that’s what I am!
There’s nothing selfish or controlling about planning for one’s funeral and expeting to have one wishes respected in death. If that were the rationale, then, why have a will? Isn’t that also a sign of selfishness and control?
Regarding my tirade, guilty as charged! Jesus Freaks will do that to you!
As for you being an Atheist, well, if you say so but you could have fooled me!!!
As a side note, when I was growing up, we had a large number of Haitians in the country. Apparently, in their culture, they cry when a baby is born because that being is no forced to go thru a life of pain but celebrate when someone dies because that person is finally resting and won’t hurt anymore. I was only very fond of that philosophy; however, after being in this inhospitable society for 26 years, my only concern is getting my remains home so that I can finally rest in peace. I know at some level, even in death, I will never be able to rest in peace in this country!
“Mr. Rogers is taking over the world. Welcome to the neighborhood!”
As a practical matter it’s probably not a good idea to put your burial wishes in your will. Most of the time, people don’t deal with the will until after the burial and it could look tacky pulling the will out while the ‘body’s still warm.’
Additionally, you may not want all of your funeral planners to see how much money you left to cousin Maude.
It’s probably a better idea to record your funeral/burial wishes in a seperate document that can be easily located when you expire. If you really want to be formal and official, you could sign and notarize it as well.
I meant ’separate’ – sorry.
“i think the loss of a child is the most heartbreaking. believer or nonbeliever”
Reason– that expresses exactly how I feel. Parents aren’t suppposed to outlive their children, it’s not usually the way of things. So out of respect for the parents I’d give them lots of leadway. Fighting with a mother who lost her child isn’t honoring anyone, it just creates that much more pain for the living.
darwinluvsu— Because I said how quiet and peaceful a church can be to a grieving family, that makes me a religous person? That’s interesting.
And there’s nothing wrong with wanting your wishes respected in death. But for me, when it comes to a greiving mother who just lost her child, the deceased’s “wants” might have to be compromised to deal with the Family left to grieve. Oh, and a will is great, but I wouldn’t put your wants in death in it. Although it can be kept separate from your will but in your executors care. That might be the best way. But I hope you make your wishes known to everyone and don’t leave someone else to deal with your Family who may not see things the way you do.
And I understand about wanting to be buried in your home country. My friend’s grandmother left Ireland but her family didn’t have the money to have her sent there to be buried. They didn’t have any family left over there either. I don’t know your situation, but if you can’t make it back there–even in death, maybe you can have something buried w/ you from home for whenever that time comes.
When my young daughter wanted to be buried when she died. She had decided she was a theist, so I went looking for someone to lead a funeral. I ended up at the Unitarian Church. I told him I was atheist, but he conducted a theist funeral using the term Josea (or some such). He didn’t know anything about my daughter, except some disorganized details I had told him at a brief meeting and ended up talking about HIS daughter, instead of mine. It was absolutely the worse funeral I have ever been to. I wish we (atheists) could form some sort of closely knit society where we meet regularly, have support groups, socializations, even Wednesday night potlucks. My Christian friends thought the best thing they could say to me was that she was with Jesus, now. Some liked to say her “spirit” was with me. All I could say was that I felt she was at peace, finally.
WendSong:
There are such groups, you just have to look for them. I live in the ATL area and belong to one that meets on a regular basis, including social outings on Friday nights.
Also, I was born and raised in a Communist/Atheist country and funerals were always conducted at the deceased’s home (doesn’t get more secular than that!). Once the body is transported to the cementary for burial, a close friend or relative of the deceased says a eulogy which basically recaps the person’s life – no mention ever of a gawd or any voodoo, just a sad celebration of that individual’s life and accomplishment. To me, it doesn’t get any better than that! I recently realized, however, that the headstones usually have a cross but no mention of make believe whatsoever so I think the cross has just evolved into some kind of symbol of death, peace or whatever without any religious meaning whatsoever.
“I love poetry, long walks on the beach and poking dead things with a stick.”
Diane:
Personally, when I think of church, peace is not the word that comes to mind. For me it’s opression, darkness, illness of the being, creapiness but NOT peace! Therefore, when someone draws peace out of church, I know something is afoul there.
I can’t be buried with anything from my country, it’s much more deeper than that. I HAVE to be buried in my country – there is no substitute for that! Of course, if I could plan my life and death, I would do it in such a way that I die there and know exactly how things will be done: no religion, no church, no Jesus freaks, no crosses, no tug of war for my “soul” just family and friends and I’d be buried next to my grandparents and the others who have passed before me.
I haven’t worked out the details of how I would accomplish that since even my ashes couldn’t be shipped because of the filthy politics of this country but I’ll figure something out. I have faith!!! LOL
hillbillyapostate:
“People” knowing the contents of my Will is completly irrelevant and of no concern to me (particularly after I’m dead). Whatever I have all goes to my 2 children – there is no other family or heirs. I’m naming my best friend as the Executrix and, although she is Catholic herself, she knows fully well where I stand, what my wishes are and I know she will respect that. Furthermore, she will be co-owner of the safety deposit box so she can have instant access to Will without having to go thru the probate process.
“The magic is in you!”
I’ve already told my mother– if I die during her lifetime, I want to be cremated and I want her to scatter my ashes in Hawaii. No particular reasoning there, except that at least she’ll get a vacation out of it.
I really do think that when the time comes when it makes sense for me to have a will, that I’ll do something like that. Grieving is one thing– wallowing quite another.
But, of course, I’ll be dead and gone and won’t know one way or the other. So whatever.
darwinluvsu one day you will show your children cuba.fidel passing will give united states chance to change without losing face.
Reason:
“fidel passing will give united states chance to change without losing face.” As a matter of fact that is my worst fear…once Americans get back in there, shit, I might as well stay here!
“Feminism: the radical notion that women are people.”
cuba has reached a level of development i believe they could handle major U.S. investment.the key diff.from the past is level of education.
Reason:
No country can handle US “investments” which simply mean complete destruction of a country’s way of life, mores and cultures. No, that’s not what I want for my country! My plan is to go back when it’s time and fight “the US invasion” with all my might. Nobody deserves what I have seen, lived and experienced here!
“God forgive America.”
The only ‘good’ funeral I’ve ever attended was for a friend who died in a private plane crash. About two weeks prior to her death she and her husband and I and mine met for dinner. The talk that evening turned to religion.
My husband and I both expressed our godlessness and my friend confessed her like opinion. Her husband was less sure, but harbored a good many doubts himself.
Two weeks later she was dead, not yet thirty-five years old.
The decision her husband made regarding her funeral was commendable. A prominent businnesman in a community of only some 25,000 people, he had much to lose by not going along with the “gone home to Jesus,” “gone to a better place” kind of belief. Yet he didn’t opt for a traditional funeral in spite of the talk that would surely follow and possibly affect him financially.
Their twelve-year old son chose to go to the piano and play The Way We Were, which was very popular at that time. A number of friends then spoke, recalling things they loved about her. I specifically remember a statement about the way she enjoyed life, never worrying about what the wind might do to her hair. Perhaps that sounds like a rather trite statement to make at a funeral, but it so described her. Another had written a poem and read it.
At the end of the service a minister did say a prayer. I feel sure this was a concession to her parents and her husband’s parents.
Following the service most of us went to the couple’s home where the wine flowed and we raised a glass to my friend and celebrated her life for another hour or two.
Sad? Of course, how could it not have been? Even so, I believe we all felt the service was a tribute to her. And although she’d probably never given much thought to what kind of funeral she would have wanted, I’m very sure she would have approved.
A few months before my husband and I had attended the funeral of his very elderly grandmother. She probably believed, but neither or us had ever heard anything very religious from her. We know for a fact that she had not been in church for quite a long time. And yes, she was able even then.
However, to hear the minister speak of her you might have concluded she wore a path to the church door daily. Following his ever-so brief mention of the deceased he launched into an extended hell and brimfire scare-sermon intended to set the rest of us on the road to heaven.
Such a difference!