So last night I was watching the boob tube, getting my nightly hour of T&A when I started watching a commercial featuring Jennifer Anniston doing a PDA for St Jude’s Childrens Hospital. Sitting on a couch with her was an adorable like girl who only had a couple of strands of hair left on her mostly bald held holding a homemade cheap cloth doll. The little girl tells us she is going through chemo with her little dolly.This commercial then got me to start thinking. I really wish I lived in a civilized moral society where sick little girls did not have to go on television and beg for medical care. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if oil executives like those at Exxon-Mobil, Enron, and the White House had to go on tv and beg for money while all the poor little children got homes, food, clothing, education and most of all medical care when they needed it?Too bad we have to live in this totally degenerate, immoral and uncivilized Christian nation. Peter Nuhn
So tell me…are the ringing of church bells on the hour a violation of your Sep of Church and State?
HMDK:
Wish I could do the clown laugh right about now.
Brhhh!
Actually, I wince in sympatico w/ya, pal ‘o mine
So tell me…are the ringing of church bells on the hour a violation of your Sep of Church and State?
No of course not, it’s just annoying.
How would you feel if your neighbourhood had a mosque with daily calls to prayer five times a day over a loudspeaker in Arabic?
FDR once said that it is a sad human failing when a full pocketbook moans louder than an empty stomach. No doubt the same pocketbook can moan louder than a little girl with her dollie. As for what is degenerate, immoral, and uncivilized I feel that it isn’t so much what we have (or have been given) regarding our role in society but what we do or have done with our individual role. In a sense we are all actors and life is a stage. As beauty is skin deep (and in the eyes of the beholder) so too are things we consider ugly, degenerate, immoral, or uncivilized. If what we want is an extreme makeover than a perpetual rant in front of a mirror probably won’t do. We have to mean it and take action to get us where we want to go. Sometimes that might mean leaving certain folks behind but if we get ourselves together enough after awhile others might want to mimmick our behavior and what we might even become faddish. Behavior (good or bad) is learned. Sometimes unlearning may require going back to square x and starting over. Thats just how life is and what we have.
For those capitalists in our midst who are so much in favor of the current system, here is a couple of things to think about.
First, if socialized medicine or that care provided by the U.S. Government is so incompetent, ineffectual and wasteful, please explain to me why so many men and women go into the arm forces where they receive all that incompetent and ineffectually wasteful medical care.
Second, when the Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court got an earache, where did he go for medical care? Did he go to his personal physician in a PPO or to an HMO? No, he went to Walter Reed Army Hospital and demanded that I pay for his medical care. Now of course I did not complain about being given the bill for William Rehnquist’s medical care, but I certainly did complain about not being able to get the same socialized incompetent and ineffectually wasteful medical care as the President of the United States and the Chief Justice of SCOTUS. Can I get the same medical care as Dubya is provided with our tax dollars? Okay with you all?
One more thing, I guess I will have to start using the word “Sarcasm” after sentences like
Monika,
I spent most of my time down the South East Coast growing up in a small town called Tathra (you can find it on Google earth). I did my 5 years of higher education in Canberra and worked for a company in Melbourne for a year before being transferred over here. I still work for said company today so at least I still have some ties to Australia other than family ones. I’ve been away for neigh on 7 years now so maybe the system has taken a turn for the worse under little Johnny.
Phreed, we have a church that plays it’s “bells” all the time on the block beside me. The only think annoying about it is that they need to update the music a little. How about playing some AC/DC or Motorhead for a change, really rock the community. Hell’s Bells would be apt don’t you think?
cry4turtles:
You mean the one that says, ?I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone.??…
No, but it probably costs considerably more than $255 an hour to cover the malpractice insurance premiums the facility must carry in order to operate as well as the costs incurred by the uninsured that the facility is required by law to treat in emergencies, as well as a whole slew of other ?unseen? costs for the facility. But clearly, a ?shamelessly ignorant, prototypical, religious, bigot? can?t be expected to know anything more about the entire economic picture of the medical industry than those espousing a far more ?compassionate? way of running things.
Comment from: anadrol
Ha Ha…now that would be an interesting change…
Comment from: Peter [Member] ?
Ah…so I gather you’re in favor of Socia1ism rather then Capitalism.
Both systems are are based on one of the 7 sins of man.
Capitalism on greed…
Socia1ism on envy…..
from your post…it’s obvious you’re envious.
phreedm,
While I can see where you are coming from (I don’t agree though) I think Peter just wants the best system for our nation.
I think we need to change our system a bit to avoid misuse of funds…and a few other changes since our system is imperfect.
the good thing is we have fifty states that can try different systems.capitalist
or social-ist.we don’t have to wait for the federal gov’t to act.
Amazing…the big difference is the fact that capitalism allows anyone to succeed if they want to…
IMO those who desire a socia1istic form of government are either hungry for power or too lazy to apply themselves…
phreedm you don’t really believe that everyone can suceed do you.take a good look around. this country is overflowing with people who engage in self destruction.
phreddy:
Ahem…Peter already qualified that he was being sarcastic.
Ummm…weren’t folks bitchin’ about socialized MEDICINE? Not quite the same thing, phlintstone.
Okay, I think that you have totally missed the point of the commercial…
St. Jude is a non-profit organization that assists families of children that have cancer and are having problems covering the cost of treatments. Frankly, I’m glad that they go and try to drum up money, because that way I know that if any of my kids ever happen to get this horrible disease, I have a place to take them.
Also, it is a Christian organization. I don’t see any athiest organizations out there, at least advertised ones, that do things like this for the community. It seems that all the athiests do is complain about all the things that Christians don’t do. Did you happen to know that more Christians gave money to the victims of the tsunami several years ago than most countries did?
Frankly, I will pray for all of you. Mainly because, one day, you will know for sure who is right. If the athiests are right, well then what a fool I have been. But, if you’re wrong…
ladykammel:
Try here:
http://www.plan-international.org/wherewework/asia/tsunami04/
Next time, do a little research before you come out swinging.
Jeez loweez, you got all that from 1 post? Quick study, are you?
Wrong. We usually ‘complain’ about all the thing xtians DO do.
& where exactly are those figures? Can you back that up?
Pascal’s wager, & an argument from force.
Real nice, lady. Happy holidays to you too.
Comment from: Krystalline Apostate
Ah…understanding what you’ve read. The question was what “atheist” group serves. You’re link merely points to an international organization. NO WHERE does it claim to be an atheist organization.
So I ask again…where is the “atheist” organization who serves?
“it probably costs considerably more than $255 an hour to cover the malpractice insurance premiums the facility must carry in order to operate as well as the costs incurred by the uninsured that the facility is required by law to treat in emergencies, as well as a whole slew of other ?unseen? costs for the facility.”
Sorry to burst your bubble jcc, but you’re wrong. I was a contracted provider. That means I paid (and still do) for my own malpractice insurance, health ins., car ins., etc. This was a therapy clinic open 9-5. No one ever came in for emergency physical, occupational, or speech therapy.
In fact, from what I’ve seen these last 8 years, unless you’re in a subsidized program (like early intervention in PA, or on welfare [more subsidy], UNINSURED PEOPLE DO NOT RECEIVE THERAPY. Who could afford to pay for it at $300+ an hour? One would think that UPMC would be cognizant of this and keep costs affordable to the zillions of uninsured Americans, but then they wouldn’t be able to r_ape the insurance companies.
Now, why is it that Americans can’t afford to pay for their own health insurance?
Well, seeing as how ‘atheism’ is nothing more than disbelief, it would be difficult to justify charity under ‘atheism’ alone.
Our sense of charity is based on our common humanity, which is where groups like The Council For Secular Humanism and American Humanist Association come into play. And yes, they do charitable and relief-effort work. Our local group, Humanists Of Greater Portland, does much of the same charitable work that your typical church would, but without religious or even atheistic proselytizing. Certainly small potatoes when compared to The Salvation Army, but I’m sure you’ve noticed that there are more believers than non-believers in this country.
http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=main&page=SHARE
http://www.portlandhumanists.org/wedo.htm
Next time, do a little research before you come out swinging.
Okay, first of all I wasn’t, as you say, swinging at anyone. I was merely stating an opinion that I have come to from observations that I have made in my personal life. Perhaps, since this is a blog, you should have taken that into context before YOU got so defensive. And, by the way, you didn’t answer my question about “advertised athiest organizations”.
Jeez loweez, you got all that from 1 post? Quick study, are you?
Wrong. We usually ‘complain’ about all the thing xtians DO do.
And, what we don’t do. You complain that we don’t do anything for non-Christians. But, you’re absolutely right. You complain that we are dominating government, and “forcing” your children to pray. Incidently, this country was founded on religious freedom. We are the only country in the world that I’m aware of where every religion is practiced, and no one is really persecuted for it. Well, Christians are constantly under attack from everyone, for one reason or another.
& where exactly are those figures? Can you back that up?
As a matter of fact, I can. The Lutheran church alone gave $9.7 million, and those were the figures as of February 2006. If you would like to see for yourself, please visit here:
http://www.lcms.org/graphics/assets/media/Lutheran%20Witness/Feb05.pdf
Although, I’m sure that you’ll attempt to debunk those figures because of the source, but that’s your choice.
So, back to my original point, are athiests upset that Christians don’t provide health care to everyone, or are they upset that Christians do more to help the less-fortunate than they do?
ladykamnell,
Wow – what a confused post you have graced us with.
I’m not aware of but one or two ‘advertised atheist organizations’. I have no idea of a comprable good works percapita comparison to the myriad of xian organizations – and I bet you don’t either.
Then you need to get out more. Almost all western countries have multiple religions active within their boundries, and practice their various faiths unmolested by their fellow citizens.
Well, for a start, you are posing a false dichotomy.
Health care should not be controlled or administered on a religious basis. In other words health care should be provided by a secular govt to all citizens (IMO).
Two billion organized xians should be able to help the less-fortunate a lot more effectively than they do (although many of the less-fortunate ARE Xians) yet they really do a poor job of it. In general they seem more interested in saving souls than saving lives. In feeding dogma to the hungry rather than food.
Sure some xian orgs do a lot of good work – but they could do a lot better.
And since when did ‘doing good works’ become a pissing contest?
Okay, but look at some of the things that your compatriots are saying. Anthony and Bones are both blaming Christians for the lack of health care for the poor.
And I misstated myself in my last post. I meant to say that we are one of the only countries in the world. But, which countries are you speaking of? Canada? Mexico? Australia? What do you consider a “Western country”? If I knew, I could discuss this further with you.
And frankly, good works don’t amount to anything for a Christian to go to Heaven. So, doing good works is not a “pissing contest” in my book. Once again, I think that you are missing my point. I was merely answering some of the other posters who were saying that the Christians of the world don’t care about others that are less fortunate. As far as your argument that Christians should do more, it seems that you are contradicting your “good works becoming a pissing contest” argument.
Do you go out every Christmas and Thanksgiving giving food baskets and toys to needy families and children? Without any hope of anything in return? THAT, Heathe, is my point. You say Christians could do more. So could you, I think. Before you start complaining that we should do more, why don’t you stop preaching to the choir and start practicing what you preach.
Do not blame corporations for the poor girls condition. Corporations are in business to make money and many give millions to charity. You could possibly make an argument that without religion, medical science would be much more advanced as many people in science have been killed or arrested over the years when their views have been in contradiction with the views of the church. We could accomplish much more without name calling and bad mouthing this great country of ours. Most atheist are patriotic and caring people, however many so called Christians assume that atheist are evil and anti American. We need to work together to help all of those in need, and not bad mouth this nation because several citizens claim to be Christian.
ladykammel:
As to getting ‘defensive’, this (the ‘atheist don’t do as much as xtians’ canard) is constantly thrown at us, despite our size in this country (we are somewhere in the 4-6% range).
When you’re outnumbered, it’s highly unlikely you can do as much as the majority. I gave you a link about the tsunami of last year, BTW.
Acutally, I never said any of that. Nor do I agree.
Yes to the former, no to the latter.
I’m aware of the religious freedom issue, but that’s not the only thing we’re founded on.
Were you aware that there are a # of states where custody is granted contingent on the parents’ beliefs? Also, there’s quite a few states that require an xtian oath to take office?
I guess that’s 1 of the downsides of being the majority.
Sorry, not too sympathetic.
& where exactly are those figures? Can you back that up? (I’m talking about the USA here)
Why on earth would I? I got a problem w/religion, not w/facts.
Are you addressing me, or everyone? I for 1 don’t blame xtians for EVERYTHING – this is a secular subject (as far as I’m concerned).
As to this:
This is a variant of the ‘tu quoque’ fallacy – but still, somewhat valid to some extent.
Let me ask you this: if an atheist came to your door, or you passed an atheist booth that was taking donations for the poor/catastrophe-stricken, would YOU throw a coupla $ in? Or would you scoot right over to say, the Salvation Army, or some xtian agency?