American Atheists Action AlertOctober 29, 2006 Defend International Free Speech, Right toQuestion and Criticize Religious Ideologies!http://www.atheists.org/action/alert-29-oct-2006.php Across the world, religious groups and their supporters are attempting to muzzle any remarks which criticize, question or “mock” their beliefs. They cite a number of disingenuous rationales — everything from combating “hate speech” to the claim that we must “respect” religious opinions. The Romanian Humanists (http://www.humanism.ro/ ) are asking for international support in their campaign to stop the latest effort by government and religious authorities to muzzle criticism of religion. That country’s Chamber of Deputies may soon adopt a rule that stipulates: “Any form, means, act or action of religious defamation and enmity, as well as any public offense against religious symbols, shall be prohibited in Romania.” An information release from the Romanian Humanists warns: “Should this article be adopted by the Chamber of Deputies, it would impose serious limitations on the fundamental liberties of the human being of freedom of speech and freedom of conscience. Books, works of art, movies, plays, concerts and rock groups could then be easily banned. To all those who treasure the freedom, the critical intellect, and religious tolerance of values which have become dominant in Europe after centuries of religious conflict and persecution, this new censorship is unacceptable.” To defend free speech, the Romanian Humanists have launched a campaign known as “Solidarity for Freedom of Conscience.” They are asking for international support, and request that e-mail be sent to :freedomofconscience@gmail.com Among the US supporters of the campaign is Dr. Fred Whitehead, Vice President of the International Committee to Protect Freethinkers (fredwh@swbell.net). He has sent the following statement: “I fully support the current protest the proposed law in Romania, which would prohibit any defamation of religion or public offense against religious symbols. This runs directly contrary to norms of freedom of press, speech and conscience, widely adopted in all civilized countries.” SPEAK OUT NOW! American Atheists urges you to join this international campaign! Express your support of the Romanian Humanists against this attempt to muzzle freedom of expression and inquiry. Send your messages to freedomofconscience@gmail.com, or visit our Action Alert page which includes an easy-to-use form at http://www.atheists.org/action/alert-29-oct-2006.php (AMERICAN ATHEISTS is a nationwide movement that defends civil rights for Atheists; works for the total separation of church and state; and addresses issues of First Amendment public policy.)
Won2have,
I have made the mistake of going back to read some of those posts I missed, wherein I have discovered that I have been referred to by name. It is therefore incumbent upon me to reply.
First of all, I am not acting and, while I know you only from the readings, I can safely say that you are indeed uninformed, ill informed and misinformed. Stupidity is a slippery little animal and if you will pardon the seeming contradiction, I have met quite a few brilliant people who enthusiastically embrace stupidity when they cannot find answers to questions about purpose and existence. Perhaps you are one of these stupid people.
My rancor and tempered hatred of your beliefs should be of some small comfort to you if you believe the following:
Matthew 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
So, any of my vitriol-soaked opinions about you or your fellows ought to serve to improve your chances of a Pearly-Gate-Pass. Rejoice!
I have to defend Dawkins even though HeatheNZ already has ? he is a hero of mine. The important phrase in this quote is ?look as if? so he is not saying that it was designed. There is a popular quote from Darwin that is like this ?To suppose that the eye with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree.? Darwin goes on to say why it is not absurd ?Yet reason tells me, that if numerous gradations from a perfect and complex eye to one very imperfect and simple, each grade being useful to its possessor, can be shown to exist; if further, the eye does vary ever so slightly, and the variations be inherited, which is certainly the case; and if any variation or modification in the organ be ever useful to an animal under changing conditions of life, then the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection, though insuperable by our imagination, can hardly be considered real. How a nerve comes to be sensitive to light, hardly concerns us more than how life itself first originated; but I may remark that several facts make me suspect that any sensitive nerve may be rendered sensitive to light, and likewise to those coarser vibrations of the air which produce sound.?
Sorry that is quite a long quote.
I think this is built on the assumption of denying god. I personally have not decided that I would rather there was no god because I want to be my own authority or similar instead it is that I don?t think there is a god.
I love how most of you guys think you have cornered the market on absolute truth and won’t even give pause to the idea that you could be wrong.Oh come on now ? we have not changed your mind any more that you have changed ours (so far) and we are not accusing you of this kind of arrogance. You maintain faith and we maintain a lack thereof. No-one is claiming absolute truth.
It seems like HeatheNZ is well informed on ID (I only know the basics) so I for one would be interested to see the debate you propose if HeatheNZ is willing to take up the torch from our side. Of course I understand if you would rather not ? you are already putting a lot of effort into this discussion.
I have no problem admitting that i totally came into this blog randomly and am no where near prepared to defend, anything really. The reason i have not really camped out on researching a certain defense is that i am talking to like 5 different people with different ideas that i’d have to spend day and night on to make even a dent. therefore, i chose to bring up ideas i thought worth getting your thoughts on and defenses for so i could see how you go at the arguement.
It is an exhausting process mentally and physically. It exhausts my emotions and time and i am trying, so please be patient. I start to write and forget what you guys even have said…sorry i am a poor apologist. i’ll read whatever i have time to and can find to see your side.
This however is not really the suffering that matthew was talking about…i don’t think. and if it is thank god for it. better this than a brutal death on a cross. I fall back on the writer of Hebrews, “it is impossible to please god without faith.” We are at am impass. i am a moron and you have no faith. so i goto heaven an see what i could have learned and done better and you spend eternity separated from the presence of god, gnashing of teeth and all. I do not mean to be trite, well sorta, but this is all a bit much for me at midnight.
I am gonna go read and research ID and evolution. I feel like even if i could give evidence that god exists you’d still not believe, but maybe i am wrong. until i am more educated goodnight – this could take awhile, don’t hold your breath.
Good luck with the research. Feel free to come back and share with us what you find. Nice talking to you.
won2have,
Atheism is an offshoot of skepticism and critical thinking. If you could supply evidence I would change my mind.
Thanks guys talk to you later.
Here’s a thought, until i get back.
If you could live in any other time, and be any person in that time, where would you go and who would you be there?
things that make you go Hmmmm…?