Yesterday was the first time in a very long time that I attended two religious services in one day. Whoopy.First, my wife’s cousin was bar-mitzvahed yesterday morning and he did great (I think) — the stereotypical performance of a practiced but nervous 13-year-old boy. This event took over two hours (my daughter nearly cried), during which time we, the visitors, friends, and family were implored to praise, submit to and blindly follow their god several times.A friend of mine from Grad School got married in the afternoon — a 40-minute service that included speaking parts for the audience. Every audience comment was religious in nature (“we will pray for you”, etc), and they asked us all to hold hands in prayer. My arms stayed folded.Both services inferred no visitors or outsiders, even though the very nature of these events nearly require it.Yes, we are talking about religious services in a house of worship, but you’d think that between two services that are frequented by visitors, that the visitors might be mentioned…once.
I?m Australian and it sounds like it is a bit easier here ? we have lots of civil celebrants that will come to your choice of venue for your ceremony.
My husband and I got married at a restored historical estate in the Adelaide hills. We wrote our own vows and so left out all the god-stuff. It was quite hard to find poetry and vows with no religious connotations but fortunately there was the internet. What would we do without Google? My father still gave me away and we had readings (of poetry) from a bridesmaid and the best man.
I terms of other religious ceremonies I generally do the silent participation thing out of respect. I don?t pray but I stand quietly etc. It does not come up very often in my life. I was very surprised that there was some religious content at my grandfather?s funeral recently. My mother organised it and she is agnostic as far as I can tell if not actually atheist (my Dad is atheist but Mum does not speak about religion). I think she did it that way because it was because it is the expected thing. I did not question it because it was a difficult time for Mum. I think I even mumbled amen which is unusual for me.
Once at a friend?s wedding the groom (my friend) was not particularly religious while the bride was very catholic. His side of the church where his family and friends were seated was mostly silent or those that were trying to participate were messing up the responses!!
brodie:
Scary!!
I guess I was extremely lucky in not being exposed to very much religion growing up. Although my parents believed in god, they never went to church, and we didn’t discuss religion. They did send me to a nearby Sunday School for a few weeks/months when I was quite young, maybe about 6 yrs. old. Didn’t understand any of it and was quite bothered by the fact that somebody named jesus wanted me for a sunbeam
Mostly just kept a low profile about the whole subject growing up. My mother did get extremely mad when, as a teenager, I finally got up the courage to say to her that I didn’t believe in god. She did a good job of making me feel like I was an evil person, so I understand the feeling guilty part. Took me years to get over it, and I sure never brought the subject up with her again. I’m glad I wasn’t sent to a xtian school, though – I either would have succumbed to the brainwashing or more likely gotten into a lot of trouble!
Tarma,
Lucky for me I’m too much of a smartass to have been too affected by the xtian school. I did get into a lot of trouble, especially when I started asking questions. I mean, how could I not ask a question when the bible story involes a talking donkey. Or as I said it, a talking ass.
But back on topic, has anyone ever been to a non-religious funeral? Every one I’ve been to have been presided over by some kind of religious figure. Just curious what one would be like.
brodie asked:
been to just one. my wife’s former roommate, a 45 year old cancer victim. the entire service was hosted by a TV show host (she worked for the station) and was totally upbeat and a celebration of her life including funny stories about her. a joyful experience.
all the rest have been the religious stodgy kind.
brodie
My mom’s funeral was sort of not religious. Not completely. But I was in charge of the arrangements, so it was more secular than anything. I did her eulogy, and made a memory book for everyone to look at, which was thoroughly enjoyed, especially by her sisters. If I remember correctly, someone from the funeral home gave some brief religious utterance, because Mom and her family were all believers, but I tuned it out. I was kind of numb through it all. Afterwards, a large group of us went out to eat and told our favorite stories about Mom and caught up with one another, as we hadn’t visited in some time.
To gilraen regarding Naughtyniko:
You?re correct about churchgoers thinking that I was ?searching.? Many invited me to come back and one suggested I try their bible study group. Also suggested was that, even though I thought I was just being inquisitive, god was leading me to him, unknown to me. He work in mysterious ways, you see.
Naughtyniko.
To island57 regarding Naughtyniko:
As for the town discovering I?m a heretic, most know it already. I wear tee shirts in town that advertise who and what I am. Also, I have had hundreds of letters to the editor published that proclaim the same. It helps that I?m retired and have no business, career, social groups, or family ties that might be jeopardized. Ah, freedom.
Naughtyniko
How does one present text from a previously posted comment in a shaded box in a replying comment so as to make better sense?
Naughtyniko.
You just use the blockquote. Before the quote you put the word blockquote in brackets. Then at the end you do the same thing but you put / in front of the word blockquote. I hope that helps.
Here’s an example of blockquotes:
http://www.amptoons.com/blog/how-to-use-blockquotes/
I’ve written about this before, but this seems to be the appropriate thread to reiterate. My dearest friend Sharon was a secular person. She loved horses, Harleys, beer, getting high, and was a mega-hot bartender. To the pain of an entire community, she lost a 9-year battle with breast cancer at age 35. There were hundreds of people at her funeral, standing room only in a packed house.
After briefly mentioning Sharon, a very large group of bikers, horse-aholics, and bar-regulars sat in a crowded parlor and was subjected to a minister (or whatever the fuck this jerk was called) ranting that we were sinners and needed to find christ. We all just kinda looked at each other wondering where the honor of our beautiful and dearly-loved friend was.
I’m a VERY passive person, but I felt punching this idiot in his offensive mouth. It was not what Sharon would’ve wanted. He hishonored and disrespected her so that he could preach to a room full of people who, most would know from a quick glance, were NOT THERE FOR A SERMON. I’ll never forget what this excuse for a human did to Sharon, and I’ll never forgive.
Fuck him!!!!!!!
PS Sorry about the anger venting.
cry4turtles,
Anger understood. I remeber being in church, when I wasn’t sleeping, and hearing the pastor say that funerals were good opportunities to convert people. Basically because they were vulnerable and willing to listen. I thought that was completely wrong. To use someone’s grief to your advantage is disgusting. But hey, that’s religion for ya.
cry4turtles
I remember your story about Sharon.
How extremely rude of the “minister” to hijack the ceremony she would have wanted, turning it into a mockery of what she had believed in life, the beliefs of her funeral attendees notwithstanding.
Given the packed capacity of the room, it would have been fitting if someone had lifted the minister up and the crowd had simply “moshed” him out the door.
I’m sorry for the loss of your dear friend at so young an age.
When my only daughter decided to get married,her “husband to be” was forced by his family (lutherans)to get married in their church.
At that time both my daughter and her boyfriend were astrophysicists
majors at M.I.T.
When we arrived at the church I was informed that because of my non- belief,I could not walk with my daughter in church or be present at the alter.
During the actual ceremony the preacher gave a 20 minute sermon on how useless science was and all we need to know was in the bible!!
How I kept my composure I will never
know.However at the reception I gave my speech and let them have it.
All those M.I.T students and my family members gave me a standing ovation,which did not make me very popular with my son in law’s family.
Tough s**t!!!!!!!!!!
JONBOY
Glad you had your chance at a comeuppance. Good for you! I’m giving you a standing ovation too!
brodie and Krystaline Apostate:
Naughtyniko
I just got married this weekend, in MD. My husband and I are both atheists. We found a great garden to have the ceremony in, and a Unitarian minister to perform it. He pretty much just let us write the whole thing from top to bottom. Not one mention of god. The closest thing we had to a prayer was the old apache blessing which is really neutral.
I think my dad was so unhappy about not mentioning the sky daddy that in his toast he must have said “God bless this and god bless that…” a dozen times. But the rest of it was heartfelt and I didn’t let it ruin an otherwise great time. I even got lots of compliments from our VERY catholic families about how nice the ceremony was.
karen
Thanks,as for my daughter and son in law,both have their Phds and work at
U.of.A and are raising a freethinking
son.
Karen “How can we demand respect for our views, if we don’t do that much for others?”
Because I have no respect for the god delusion and I make no apologies for it. The naturalistic worldview that we share is supported by testable facts and observations which is why our point of view is the only one that deserves respect.
My brother passed away suddenly a couple of years ago and there were hundreds of people at his service. Not one mention of the sky daddy. He was as much an atheist as most everyone on this board. The speakers talked about my brothers qualites and his work at the food bank. And, not one prayer or any of that silly shit.
The next day we dumped his ashes in the ocean. No church involvemnt at all.
Thank you for your responses. I think this may be the only forum where my pain is fully understood. Even though I haven’t a clue what most of you even look like, your friendship has added an extraordinary depth to my character and life.
Gracias
cry4turtles,
I’m sorry to hear this nut ruined everything. I hope I never have to go through with that.
JONBOY,
Holy crap, well tough shit is right! They will just have to deal with it. You did a great job, good for you.
Even though my friends know me as a “fire breathing” atheist, I do occasionally go to functions at churches, primarily because I care about the people involved. Recently, I went to a christianing, of all ridiculous things, for one of my cousin’s new babies. It was fun to stand there and look around and just marvel at how people who are normally so smart, literate, and modern could believe in all that shit. I even did the “call and response” bit of the service, totally with a tongue in my cheek mentally. But I love my cousins and aunt and uncle and wanted to see them, so I went.
I also went to a funeral which was a very traditional Episcopalian service. No eulogies–just strict liturgy. Very dry, let me tell you. I was tremendously bored but then, I caught a glimpse of my friend (her husband had died) and she just looked so terribly devastated that I forgot the tediousness of the ceremony and instead thought about her husband and her loss.
During the most recent family wedding (of another cousin), I was sitting with my Mom and Dad in the church and at one point the minister was going on about God and I sort of glanced over at my Mom. She gave me the most hilarious eyeroll, that I just about lost it. We both just sort of snickered quietly and then quickly straightened up. My Dad and I have been known to gossip after weddings about the “god content.” Like, “Well, not too bad, only one prayer and a couple mentions of Jesus,” and so forth. It is good to have allies in these cases.
I don’t think it is a bad thing to attend these functions (weddings, funerals, etc.) or, in any way, is it saying you “approve” of religion. These services are for and about people–people I love and care about. I can ignore the religous bullshit if the people are important enough to me.
That said, I personally would not want a religous wedding, funeral, or any such nonsense. It is all about choice.
Cry4turtles:
I’ve said it before and I’ll reiterate it now: what happened at your friend’s funeral (although sad and wrong) should serve as a warning to all us that we need to take action on our lives even AFTER we’re dead to keep the freaks out of our coffins. I seriously suggest that everyone has a will drawn (there are kits available today at very low cost for the do-it-yourselvers) and include the disposition of the funeral in there as well as any illness. I keep thinking how I would turn over in my grave, over and over again for all eternity (and, YES!, I would be that one person to come back & hunt the world) if: (1) I have some kind of religious ritual shit performed at my funeral; (2) I am buried in this country; and (3) I am buried at all! Hopefully, those close to me know me know well enough (and I hope) they won’t allow that to happen; however, I am taking action while I still can and specifically outsting religion from my life in case of an illness and at death. (Yes, when I delivered my daughter, I specifically told during registration that I was an Atheist, however, they choose not to write that in the admission papers and, lo and behold, who comes calling on me by a pedophiliac, sick f*** Catholic priest! – Yikes!!!). Gotta go wash my hands now, BYE!
“The only good thing to come out of religion was the music”
I just married off my daughter a few weeks ago and the groom’s parents are the psuedo-religious type. The church was an old church that had been long abandoned by its older contituency and replaced by a hip young minister with a young hip crowd. But Jebuz was in the air I tell ya! When asked what church I went to I advised them “Of society’s current pantheon of god’s … none find favor in my eyes”. I never got asked again. One of the bridesmaids did however hit on me later … her dad of course was the minister.