In the newest vote for theocracy, Congress passed the PERA. This means that when the government breaks the law and pushes religion, the challengers cannot get reimbursements for their legal fees, even if they win. Of course, the converse is not true. Purely illegal and easily passed. Now we wait until we can challenge it at the Supreme Court level. Think they’ll be fair? I don’t.I’m pissed. This is pure crap, and it’s happening right before our eyes. Our rights were lessened today, and the Christians think it’s a good thing. So much for doing unto others…
Has anyone ever thought of what a planet would be like if everyone did not believe in a god? I can say for me, if I did not believe in a god, I would be killing everyone that did me wrong. I would be about as evil as anyone could get.
I grew up in a christian family, my dad was a preacher. I did not believe in a god until I was 13. From about 8 until then, I took anything I wanted and lied to everyone. I thought church was a joke. Like going to the Moose Lodge.
Ho many millions are out there like me that a belief in a god I have to answer to when I die keeps me in check? Look how violence is getting out of control with the generations of kids that growing up in schools without prayer.
I used to not believe in a god or a devil. I used to laugh and call christians fags and spit on the ground at the thought of a god. I can say this fore sure 100%. No person can ever convince me that there is no god. I have seen to many things over the years that totaly convince me there is a god.
I am 40 and I do not attend any church regularly. Maybe 4 or 5 times a year when ever I feel like it. I did not post this to cause anyone to get angry but to just get a point of view across that I don’t hear discussed on either side.
Man’s nature is more bad in general than good, a faith in a god works as a check and balance ofr those of us who it is best that we believe in a god for the sake of the other people we are around.
Seeinit
If you don’t see or hear this discussed, then you aren’t paying attention.
It does not take a god belief to be a moral person. It makes me wonder about your upbringing to think you got away with acting like you did from 8 to 13. Were there no consequences for your actions then?
Humans have empathy, for fellow humans and other creatures. The “Do unto others principle” was around long before it became associated with any religion.
I feel sorry for you, that you don’t have an inner moral compass to guide you without a fear of retribution from some deity. You’re also the scary kind of Christian, who can do anything she/he likes and then just ask forgiveness for it.
On what do you base your statement that
“Man’s nature is more bad in general than good”?
Good and bad are relative and subjective terms.
Just in case anyone was wondering, this is how I believe. Every Atheists has the right regardless of job, race or sex to go to work with a shirt that says “There is no God” or “I believe christians are just not realistic in their faith” just as a christian should be able to wear a cross and a budist can wear a yin yang symbol.
I believe in supporting the freedom of expression but not at the expense at tax dollars.
I also believe that tax funded education should only teach reading, writing and mathmatics. No religion beliefs at all including creationism or evolution should be tax funded. Only the basics of science should be taught in tax funded schools. one does not have to think man came from a pool of goo or from the dust of the earth to disect and eye or study how polution effects our environment.
Evolution should be offered in the public schools in classes privatley funded taught by volenteers or payed teachers from private fund donations and it should be an elective science class. Creationism shoudl also be offered right next door in its own class through private funding and it also be an elective science class.
This would settle alot of the problems. Let the kids choose the class they want or their parents and let private funding pay for it, not tax dollars. If there is no private funding for either class in a certian school. Then those kids can spend that time in the library with interactive CD or DVD material provided by the private funding.
Kids are learning violence like killing and rape just fine from video games. They seem to get an A on that and they leanr it from games and DVD movies. I am sure they can leanr just as good about evolution and creationism the same way.
We teach them about the arts and how they come from monkeys but yet they can not pass the ACT or PSAT to get in to college because they can not do math or language arts. This tells us our tax dollars are being wasted on the public schools.
Employers set the standard by who they will hire. They tend to want people who can read and write and do math and care less about where humans come from.
)If you don’t see or hear this discussed, then you aren’t paying attention.) All I hear is both sides wanting to rule instead of finding common ground.
(It does not take a god belief to be a moral person. It makes me wonder about your upbringing to think you got away with acting like you did from 8 to 13. Were there no consequences for your actions then?) I was alway punished when caught, but I was awesome at what I did and so I rarely got caught.
(Humans have empathy, for fellow humans and other creatures. The “Do unto others principle” was around long before it became associated with any religion.) Religion should not be a reason to reject the 10 commandments, just leave them where they are and say you only endorse 6 or 7 of them.
(I feel sorry for you, that you don’t have an inner moral compass to guide you without a fear of retribution from some deity.) My faith in a god is my moral compass (You’re also the scary kind of Christian, who can do anything she/he likes and then just ask forgiveness for it.) It does not work like that. Hebrews chapter 10 says “If you continut to willfully sin after you recieve the knowlege of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for your sins. For me being a follower of the bible teachings means to choose to do what is good for others instead of myself when tempted to do wrong.
(On what do you base your statement that
“Man’s nature is more bad in general than good”?
Good and bad are relative and subjective terms.) A preast raping boys is not relative. A polatition stealing funds is not relative. Telling someone they can not express their faith because I am offended by the idea of it is not relative. Using tax dollars on projects or edutaion that decreases the standard of living is wrong. How somthing taste is relative but if it is stealing, lying, murder, rape and the such, that is evil. It is when those in power abuse it for their own gain that I base my statement on and both parties are guilty of it.
seeinit
You are sort of on the right track, but there are some problems with your plan.
Evolution is science, a valid elective class. ID is not science, but could be discussed in a comparative religions elective.
As noted previously,in another thread, in ID, once you say, “God did it,” what else is there to teach?
We don’t come from monkeys; we have a common ancestor.
seeinit
I don’t see what this has to do with do unto others and empathy. The 10 c’s do not rely on empathy, they rely on a fear of punishment.
So…you don’t sin, willfully, at all? That would mean that any time you commit any transgression, it was because you had no control over your own free will to do so. You never break any of the commandments and live a true Christ-like existence?
If not, you’re screwed. No heaven for you, ala Hebrews.
Your examples are specific, not general. Man’s nature, in general, is geared toward survival. That is neither bad nor good.
Evolution is a theory. I have a Theory that there is a god. Theory is not fact. Evolution is not proven. You only believe or have faith that it is.
Evolutin is religion because it is a faith that it is true.
Science is Fact, evolution is not fact. If you want to say that evolution is science, so is creationism. Creationism is what our scientist do today. Science creates both technology and life. Our scientists are doing today what athiests say could not be done in the 18th and 19th century.
As far as the statement about “God did it” that is truely relative. I dreamed about my wife for 2 months before I met her. When I was 13 I said, “If there is a God, lets make a deal. I will not have sex untill i get married if you help me marry the person you want me to marry. If you created everything in 7 days, she will agree to marry me in seven days. My mother must agree in our marriage and this girl must love you more than she loves me.
when I was 19 I started dreaming about this girl. For 2 months almost every night. I knew almost everything about her. One day I turned and looked at the door employees come in. I knew somehonw this girl was gojng to come through the door. She did. It was a thursday morning. I asked her out saturday. I praposed to her the following thursday and she accepted. without asking my mom after a dinner with her 2 days later, my mother called me over to her car and said, “I think she woud make a wonderful wife for you”, even though I had only met her and told my mom this. Melinda though she grew up over an hour away in another county was raised in the same church ar my family religion. We got married 20 years ago Oct 23rd.
I say God did that for me. God did it but I am responsable for mainting the marriage just like a farmer maintains his farm. God did it but I not am supposed to respect what he did for me.. That is a true story, I did not make that up to make my point.
sorry for the jumbled spelling, I am in a hurry to pick her up from work. But i was saying that I am now supposed to respect what he did for me.. what he did for us. I think people do not understand God. He did not make man to rule over but to have a friend. I do not live in fear of him punishing me but he is my compass, the bible points me in the right direction when I face problems. Why should it matter if I use the bible for that or call my concience God and you say yours is your inner voice. If we do not hurt others in a common agreed evil way. We should respect each other.
mxracer652:
I’m not like nudity=bad. I’m just pissed because all those Christians that say that nudity’s horrible and all this other stuff and then they become hypocrites and force kids to watch it in school.
While skimming through these posts I saw something about Communion wine (however you spell it.)
In one of my classes we’ve had huge discussions about the exercise clause and how it allows peeople to believe what they want, but if it breaks a law then they cannot act on it. The subject of communion was brought up and how it serves alcohol to teens and children under 21. Even this Christian girl was asking our teacher why the churches don’t get in trouble for breaking the law. Our teacher was dumbfounded so I turned around and said, “Because every politician knows that they have to support Christianity or they won’t win their elections, and then they must continue to support Christianity to become re-elected. So basically, our government is under the power of all your little churches and can’t do anything to stop them from breaking a law here and there, or come election time, they lose.” And when she shut up, other kids started arguing with each other and it was this huge religious argument.
It was great.
seeinit:
That is the most retarded thing I have ever heard. You married her after 7 fucking days?! And of course your mother said that; good moms support their kids no matter what. And at the end you seemed pretty quick to defend your little story there…
BTW: Jerking off counts as sex in the eyes of your Lord, so I bet you broke the end of your little deal.
Oops, I meant tp say, “I bet you broke your end of that little deal.”
Sorry guys, that whole thing just pissed me off.
seeinit
OK. Sorry, but we’re not going to go into the whole scientific theory vs run -of -the-mill theory debate. At least I’m not. That issue has been discussed ad nauseum on this and other blogs. You obviously don’t understand the difference.
As for your quaint story about asking for and meeting your wife, nice set of coincidences, with a little self-fulfilling prophecy built in.
What evidence do you have that god had anything to do with it?
I told my stuffed bunny rabbit that I wanted to get married, and I did. And it was long after my mom threw my bunny in the trash.
of course I broke the deal, thats what is so good about it. Even though I did not keep my end of the deal, it still happend. The bible teaches that though man chosses to do wrong, god keeps his end of the deal.
As far as self fulfiling, how did i have dreams about her for two months before she moved to my town? How did she come to work at my job, in a city of 1 million. How was it that this girl grew up in the same religion as me? How is it that my mom knew that she would make a good wife for me when I did not ask her anything about it, ever? Why would someone agree to marry someone just after she met them? How is it she and I are still best friends and still married 20 years later? I was asked a question and gave my answer and that is the truth.
I believe that a person can not become a true follower of the bible unless it is ment to be. I have seen friends grow up in church and hate it so just because a kid is so called brainwashed to believe in a god, does not mean they will. Just like friends I have that grew up and never heard of jesus or God until they come to America and now they read the bible every day.
Lets look at it from an evolution point of view or genetics which is common ground. Homosexuals are gentically made to be such, as science says, so is most drunks and drug attics. Now they thing fat people too. If those of us are genetically made to be able to see others in our dreams or heal through thought and some are genetically made to believe in a god of some sort. It is a losing cause to try to change us. Statistics show that the majority believe in a god of some sort so genetics are ruling and to fight it is to fight a loosing battle…
Either way, neither side will win, so finding common ground is the best way, not lashing out at someone because things happen that cant be explained by both sides. If I brain washed my kids then so do those who believe there is no god.
What I taught my kids about a god does not matter. What matters is that my daughter graduated highschool this year with already a year and a half of college. My two sons recieved awards last year for Honor Roll and perfect attendance. They respect their teachers and have the respect of their fellow students. I have never been called to school for them skipping, fighting or disrespecting other students or faculty.
We live in one of the poorest neighborhoods in our city. Our house cost us 15k(without govenment help)and we live about 7 blocks from the projects(low income appartments). Even though I did not finish school, my kids are. My kids are not a product of their environment as studies show they should have.
It is not If someone says they believe in a god, it is how they live and repsect others. Lashing out at someone because they believe differently is not a good way to treat someone. Treating people that believe in a god like that will only make things worst.
People that have a nature they can not control turn to a religion or god to help them deal with it. Forcing that type of person into their old nature is dangerous.
Funny how I was telling the truth and it braught out a nasty response. I was just stating my own experience and got attacked. Why was there no attemp at explaining the dreams or events that happened I had no control over. Why is it just always a lashing we mush take when we did nothing to hurt anyone else.
I am sorry for upsetting anyone here, I thought is was open dialog. Have a nice day and I am sorry again.
BTW we do not wear crosses or carry a bible in public as this is the way we raised our kids. One does not need a cross or bible to show they believe in a god but to do what is best for the other person though our nature begs us to do different.
We do not return violence for violence. We try to stay neutral but when asked we will answer with what we believe. Thank you for giving me time here.
seeinit
I did not attack you. And I do not see how I was nasty. What I said about my bunny is absolutely true.
The point is, you would have probably met your wife even without having made the request of god at 13.
The self-fulfilling parts come in where you had 7 days to ask her to marry you and for her to accept. Lots of people act that rashly. Most don’t do it to make a deal with god come to fruition. What if you had waited till the 8th day? What if she had made you wait till then to hear her answer? Would that have nullified it? Your mom accepted her, without knowing much about her. Some people just click. I thought the same about my son’s wife before he even thought about marrying her, but didn’t say anything to that effect. No god involved.
It’s coincidence that she ended up in your city, at your job. If not there, you may have met her somewhere else, at a later time. I see no significance at all that she is of the same religious sect.
As for your dreams, I can’t explain them. You’d have to provide more information about them anyway. Did you record them at the time? Is there any way to verify that what you might say now that you dreamed then-20 years ago-actually what you dreamed, or some romanticizing of what you thought you dreamed?
You attribute things to god, but have no proof that god had anything to do with it. Then you promote belief in that god based on your feelings that god has intervened in your life, with the inference or outright statement that god will intervene in others’ lives. This simply is not verifyable and can lead to tragedy. It is better to be self-reliant, than to hang your hopes on a dream.
You contradict yourself. What did you just say in quoting the Hebrews passage? Willfull sinning results in no reward.
Yes they are. Their environment is not just their physical surroundings. It is also the atmospjere YOU bring to those surroundings. So obviously YOU are doing well to compensate for what they are dealing with not far outside their door. You are equipping them with the tools they need to be self-confident enough to make good choices for themselves.
wilful sinning is if I plan to masterbate tomarrow. The bible says that there is sin which leads unto death and sin wich leads not unto death..
Sinning at a moment of weakness is not the same as planned sin.
There are things I left out of the original story because it would take a book to tell the story like my dreams after the day we met.
The night before I praposed I dreamed at breakfast she told me she was born in this city but moved away when she was 6 and that he father used ot take her to a park with cement animals.
In the dream I took her to the park but when she saw the animals she said “can we go to the other end of the park where there are no animals?” and as I drove she said “right here is fine” I followerd her to one of 3 picnic tables in the dream. Table # 2.
The next morning, I got her up for work but she called out. She fixed breakfast without me asking and when we were eating she said about being born here and about her dad and the park.
I knew the park because I played there when I was a kid too, there was 3 parks but I knew from the dream the one it was. I drove there and just as in the dream she said lets go to the other end of the park. Because it was sort of scaring me that things had become that vivid, I walked past her as she went to the tables. I stoped at the first table but she waled past me to the second table.
I went to her and she said “you seem to know me and know what I have been thinking for the last 5 days. Do you know what I am thinking? I said yes because though I could not hear her thoughts at that moment, in the dream I heard her praying to god, “IF this is the husband I have been waiting for, let him say his vows to me, righ here right now.”
When I said I know what you are thinking, she asked “What am I thinking?” I started saying my vows to her and she started crying and fell into my arms just as it was in the dream.
I have no other explination for those events as it was God. I kept a diary for a long time but I would never let anyone read it because of other things in it. Things to unbeleavable for people to read. I do not try to use this to convince people to try to serve god. I either want people to serve him because thye want to or dont. I do not like it when I hear someone say “I am trying Jesus out to see if it works for me.” like her is a pair of pants or shirt. They cause people like me more problems then they are worth.
Those are the type of people the bible speaks of when it states that people hate him and dispise him because of people like that.”
anyways, you can break a deal inadvertantly without meaning it in a moment of anger or passion. It is completely different if someone plans on lying tomarrow or cheating on their wife on Mondday ad lunch.
I do not try to expect anythig from God. When I made the deal, I was not running around trying to find a wife, I do not tell people that God is for them, I do not know who will serve god and who will not.
I tell people that when I was 13, I decided to believe in god and if my life had turned out to be a distater and every time I tried to do what is right it went wrong, I would love him for the rest of my life and accept what ever came to me in life.
I hate it when I hear preachers on TV tell people they can have riches and good health if they send money. They are liars, riches are not for everyone and perfect health is not for everyone. Just as everyone on earth can not be a doctor, everyone can not be rich. Common sence tells us that. I am consoled inside that if there is a god, those liars will get their reward for steeling old peoples money.
If there is not a god,.. well I think we can agree that what goes around comes around and they will get theirs, even if its a horrible death or desease,
seeinit
Ah, the old weakness loophole.
Called out? ???
It sounds suspiciously like you two were living in (gasp) sin before you even proposed!
Maybe she was talking in her sleep and you absorbed this info subliminally.
Since you were familiar with the park, it is normal that it would occur in your dream. I can’t expalin away the coincidence of what happened and what was said. I just don’t attribute thinkgs I can’t explain to “God did it”. I leave it open for some future explanation.
For instance, I have had out of body experiences. Some people think those are spiritual, godly events. But now , scientists are saying that it can be explained neurologically.
From time immemorial we have attributed the unexplained to gods. And so far, pretty much all has been explained naturally.
It seems to me illogical to make the god leap, when the evidence generally points to nature, even if we can’t as yet see how. Eventually it will become clear.
But if you need to believe god did it, go right ahead. Just do it without interfering in the rights of others. And, a word of caution, don’t bet your life on it.
we were not living together. We were on a late date and so she slept in my room and I stayed in my bothers room. (against his advice, he said I should go for it).
she had to go to work the next morning (that was what she called out from)
I also had a dream my brother Ray died and a week later I recieved a call that they found him dead in his bed. They told me he had been dead about a week. I also had a dream a man told me Joseph was going to die. I told my sister and she laughed at me and said I was mistaken. My dad died 3 months later from a stroke. Even though everyone called him Joe, his name was Joseph.
btx my bother lived on the other side of the state and my dad lived in the next county.
last year I had a dream, my dad and brother told me to pack for a trip. I woke up and told my wife. Two days later my nephew called and said the family raised the money for someone to fly out to California and help our sister Missy. She had broke down with he 2 little girls.
It seams the night I had the dream, Missy called our Mom and told her the situation. I come from a family of 12, 6 boys and 6 girls. They had spent 2 days trying to find somson to fly out there but they did not want to call me bacause I do not associate with them. My nephew spent 2 days telling them to call me. I have always said I would never fly because I get sick in high situations and always had a fealing I would die in a plane crash. It was only because of the dream I flew out there and drove them back to Florida.
They could not get the 7 year old on a plane to fly here becsue she fears dieing in a plane crash. I do not know why I have dreams like that. I guess because I beleave ther is a god I atribute it to him. I only know I was nothing like the person I am now.
Seeinit:
SHUT UP.
No one cares about your bullshit stories. Even if they’re true you might be partly psychic or something like that, not God did it.
Seeinit:
So you had ‘prophetic’ dreams: so what? At what point did a jackrabbit w/a horse’s head go walking by? What’s next, you’ll do a tarot reading over the whole blog?
My advice is to stop smoking pot, & tell your ego the whole universe ISN’T watching your every little move.
Stoner allegory is the worst.