I’ve read a lot about the “Path to 911″. I’ve read it’s factual. I’ve read it’s fiction. I’ve read comments from those who haven’t seen it (a la The Last Temptation of Christ), and those who are supposedly in the know.It seems like the networks who wouldn’t air the Reagan Story some months ago are very keen to air this, saying it’s “Based on facts”. Is this posturing? Is this blatant politics? Is that OK (after all, the networks are not government entities and should have freedom of expression)? Or is it just about the viewership?And, lastly, will you watch it? I won’t.
robguy:
Here’s my latest offering:
http://biblioblography.blogspot.com/2006/09/local-yokels-and-butterfly-wings.html
This from someone who scores horribly on IQ tests, I might add.
Spanders:
Yeah, please stick around. You do provide some balance around here.
Besides, who else is able to keep phreddy the phascist in line?
alexatheist:
This just struck me:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/10/22/opinion/polls/main965223.shtml
“Most Americans do not accept the theory of evolution. Instead, 51 percent of Americans say God created humans in their present form, and another three in 10 say that while humans evolved, God guided the process. Just 15 percent say humans evolved, and that God was not involved.”
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=544
“47 percent believe that Saddam Hussein helped plan and support the hijackers who attacked the U.S. on September 11, 2001 (up six percentage points from November).
44 percent actually believe that several of the hijackers who attacked the U.S. on September 11 were Iraqis (up significantly from 37% in November).
36 percent believe that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction when the U.S. invaded (down slightly from 38% in November)”
Sounds like most of America is a ‘fringe’ group, don’t it?
Face it: your baroque meritocracy’s seriously outta whack.
“Do you really think the reason they haven’t invaded Iran is because Spanders doesn’t think it’s a good idea?”
This is perhaps the most classic line I’ve read on this blog. Spanders–yooo da man. Please, please don’t leave us.
PS-Is it just me, or are others missing Karen? Kaaareeen, where are you? Time to come home for supper!
Spanders:
Alex:
Argument from authority, this Bowman has no structures related experience. As it appears, he has no engineering experience outside of graduate school.
Where is the evidence that non commercial aircraft hit the towers? Speculation gets you nowhere. I provided a compelling explanation that agrees with what happened on film.
If this administration is suspect, I’m sure dkos or WaPo or NYT would just love to jump on that story, but no responsible journalist would print something with such minimal “evidence”.
cry4turtles
Here I am!
Sorry I’ve been silent. My brain has been having technical difficulties. I’ve been looking on, but have not had as much time. And Saturday, I will be going on vacation for a week and will be w/o computer.
The mood has been rather hostile in here of late. I couldn’t even come up with any smart-assery about it.
I hope my faculties return soon.
Thanks for thinking of me!
I’ve read through a number of comments on “conspiracy theories” of 9-11. I, too, suspect that the towers did fall as a result of structural failure and that many people died due to poor design and the fact that they were sheep being told that there was nothing to fear.
On the other hand, I can agree partially with Alex that there were political agendas to advance. If you count me among the “conspiracy theorists” you’ll have to count me in the “let it happen on purpose” camp. I find it extremely suspicious that the planes were not simply shot down or that the plot was not foiled previous to its execution. It is my opinion that the intelligence information was very available and that it was not acted upon.
It could have been extremely grave incompetence. I know the old saying “never attribute to malice what is easily explained by incompetence.” I usually expect that to be the rule of thumb, except when political parties are poised to pass unethical laws like the “patriot” act, invade two muslim countries, and gets caught invading the privacy of millions of Americans in illegal wiretap schemes.
The controlled demolition theory does have some merit. High quality thermite can literally cut steel beams in a very short period of time, leading to the same effect. I do not believe any beurocracy could cover such a thing up – there are too many people that will not stand for such an act. It is not that hard to believe that shrub and co. could have had plenty of advance warning and ignored it, knowing that it would give them a foot in the door to invade Afghanistan and Iraq and that they could easily feign ignorance and by proxy appear incompetent later on.
I believe it is possible Bush himself would not have known and that a few people in his cabinet would bank on his apparent stupidity to deflect criticism and “conspiracy theories.” It’s all done now and if they’ve covered it up, they did a good enough job. All we can do now is pick up the pieces and be sure to oust their worthless asses.
AT:
I’m in the ‘they were incompetent’ camp. It’s no secret that the plans to invade Iraq were developed in 1989. Or that the Afghani pipeline was a gleam in someone’s eye years prior.
They just didn’t have an excuse to go in. Nor is it a secret that our ‘intelligence’ agencies are more interested in appearances & rivalry than in doing their job.
I think it was all about a bunch of semi-developed plans that just needed a spark to set the shrub-fire.
I attribute a lot of it to simple idiocy & complacency.
To wisconsinatheist:
I agree with you that it’s long overdue that we need to forget about debating about the 9/11 terrorist suicide attacks. We need to move on to other things here methinks. To debate this a whole lot more is futile or maybe purile – nothing much is accomplished unless some new facts are brought forth. The endless speculation just ties us up & expends our time. It would be “fun” to become an expert in some obscure facet of insignificance -sure. But that’s about all such debate is good for achieving.
atomictesting:
You also voice *my* opinions very well, concerning the numerous faults leading (and the failure to detect or prevent) the disasster of the 9/11 attacks.
A former member of Bush’s White House national security group (Larry somebody??) had stated that he COULD NOT get Pres. Bush to take his strident warnings about impending terrorist attacks seriously. This was PRIOR to the 9/11 attacks. One must speculate that Clinton was at least intelligent enough that he *would* have listened & taken SOME action.
Finally this National Security Adviser (he was maybe the head man) QUIT that White House team – which did not happen until long after the 9/11 was past.
This strikes me as quistessentially the sort of trait I’d figure GWB is capable of. From what I’ve read – GWB is *anything* except a “Thinker”. GWB’s wife stated at a dinner that GWB and Chenney were very similar – and that whenever George had a problem at his ranch, he “would just grab his chainsaw and cut it down”.
As was said by one research organization – GWB’s speeches and his verbal responses during press conferences and his off the cuff remarks have been closely analyzed. In that wasy an appraisal was done on MANY modern presidents. The result was that GWB was appraised as having an I.Q. of approximately 91 !
The I.Q. of Clinton was analyzed at 81 and the actual I.Q. test result of Jimmy Carter was made public and was about 74. This is why Carter is busy building houses for the poor people who need them & why GWB hates the poor and middle classes. Clinton will probably take on some Big humanitarian projects also – one would assume after the 2008 elections.
From what this National Security guy (who quit) states, GWB was apparently not able to understand his main priority SHOULD have been to STOP those terrorist attacks.
The INS authorities and the FBI were also too lax. In today’s world it is VERY hard to find anyone (in the U.S.) who REALLY takes his job seriously and tries to do an excellent job – - especially in a GOVT. job. Then we have these mentally-deprived people who are in office, and ALL he/they do is to EMULATE being a statesman or statesmen.
That was exactly what killed the Soviet Union also. They had quite a large bunch of political “racketeers” who were in important positions for control of that nation – which meant they were really *incompetent* to do the jobs they held.
You see this pretty clearly when you read the book “The Truth About Chernobyl” by a Soviet nuclear engineer who knows what he’s talking about.
Sorry I haven’t enough time to read all the posts here. I just get too busy & am unable to spend the time I ought to use – for reading these interesting posts. My appologies.
spanders don’t leave and karen enjoy that vacation.it was on the news that marines have given up hope on anbar province.don’t know if that is correct but if so that is a big chunk of iraqi real estate.also hear nato forces in daily combat with taliban.it is not looking good for us
ike warned us about military/industrial complex we should have listened.now its too late.
SPANDERS and Betelnut:
SPANDERS Please do *not* leave this blog! Your posts are impressive and quite informative too. We here will be much the poored if you leave! It’s clear you’ve an open mind & did not come here simply to skewer a lot of atheists. The flack you find that everyone gets here is NOTHING compared to some of the wilder blog sites. This one is a real *pleasure* becasue one can actually LEARN useful things here.
Betelnut:
Have a fine vacation! We hope you return to us soon. I always enjoy the things that the Book Readers like you have to tell about. I too have failed to get a laptop so far – and have it set up for wireless Internet use. My guess is that you will enjoy your vacation more if you get away from all those techno-toys anyway. Have a GOOD one!
Oh, here’s a pretty good post on the TV show:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rachel-sklar/path-to-911-tough-on-b_b_29305.html
reason: (reply & off topic)
Mighty good point you’ve made about the Military-Industrial Complex. ‘Ike’ was *quite* familiar with how the U.S. M-I Complex operated having been a 5 star general – so he *knew* the U.S. was being “taken for a ride” by those who advocated a bigger & stronger military capability.
The M-I Complex wanted American citizens to buy a LOT of military capability & some (including in the military) were anxious that we should USE that capability where they wanted us to.
After he’d stated that warning, we began to hear Ike Eisenhower being accused of being “communist” or a pinko! But if ever there was an example of a red-blooded American patriot it *was* Ike.
Some feel it was possible that because JFK had decided NOT to have our military aid in the invasion of Cuba, that JFK was assasinated. Then there was also the point that JFK was not *for* any increase in our military involvement in Vietnam. Then Kennedy died – maybe assassinated by his own super-patriot countrymen.
Right after JFK died it’s interesting to note that the U.S. involvement in Nam had *greatly* escalated under the OTHER jackazz Texas jerk – Lindon B. Johnson.
Of course it’s been stated MANY times that the Gulf Of Tonkin so-called “incident” in which North Vietnamese patrol boats were CLAIMED to have attacked a group of U.S. Navy ships there, was only a totally *falsified* claim. Using that QUESTIONABLE “Gulf of Tonkin” *incident* (which apparently did NOT even occur) the U.S. congress then voted to widen the war & allow attacks to be made on North Vietnam.
Now we have ANOTHER little “warlet” that wasn’t needed and which is screwing-up the Untied States to the max. For one thing, it appears the whole G.D. world now hates the U.S.A.
Thank you, Cowboy Bush. Somewhere in Texas a village is missing it’s idiot.