http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=12516Here’s an interesting article courtesy of Lord Omnivorous.
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=12516Here’s an interesting article courtesy of Lord Omnivorous.
Ryan was answering phreedm and he was quoting from the bible. One of the quotes that Ryan gave was Isaah Chapter 40 Verse 26.
In that verse Isaah is telling about the cleverness and mightness of God that makes Him able to put all the stars in their correct positions each night! The end of that verse finishes by saying:
“Because of His power and mighty
strength not one of them (stars)
is missing.”
(He always gets them in the correct
position)
This verse *actually* refers to the abysmal IGNORANCE of the guy Isaah – it does NOT show that “god” has any strength or any wonderful mental powers as Isaah foolishly thought. Isaah made the basic mistake of assuming that God “takes away the stars” every time the sun ‘rises’ and then has to *replace* those same stars every night! Thus this verse only shows the severe lack of knowledge about astronomy by Isaah – and of everyone else in those ancient days.
Far from being any impressive description of the power and the “supreme ability” of Gawd – this verse instead simply demonstrates how *worthless* the knowledge-level was of all the folks in Issah’s era.
Rather than *reinforcing* the belief in the impressiveness of Almighty Gawd’s power – this verse clearly illustrates the abject stupidity of Isaah. Issah *assumed* that a Gawd moved all things in the heavens.
Interestingly, it was many years after Isaah before it generally became accepted that for celestial bodies to move about in the heavens did *not* require angels to be pushing them.
That such idiotic things are still mentioned in modern day Bibles is *marvelous* indeed!
Bones-
My standard reply to “prayer”people is,” Nothing fails like prayer”.
Atheists United has a table on weekends at Venice Beach. When someone comes by and says “I will pray for you”, my friend, Henry Farber, replies, “I will think for you”.
Richard of Oxnard
Comment from: robguy387
GREAT STATEMENT…
Agreed. Simply because one has read the bible or even become a minister does not mean they understand the bible.
Perhaps you missed my point.
Let’s take atheism. At what point does one know everything about atheism. No wait. There’s nothing to know…
OK. Do you think Billy Graham claims to know all there is to know about the bible…?
Do you think someone called to be a servant (minister) would claim to be a scholar…?
And besides we are dealing with cyberspace. Anyone can claim to be anyone they want…
Comment from: robguy387
Comment from: robguy387
Wow. It didn’t take long to prove that statement…
phreddy:
I understand enough to know it’s a load of bollocks.
Then why do you insist on pestering us…? Is this the only rooftop you can find to shout from?
Isaiah 40:26
“Lift up your eyes on high, and see who has created these, who brings out their army by number. He calls them all by name. by the greatness of his might, and because he is strong in power, Not one is lacking.”
The verse actually shifted from a general overview to human beings.
Unless I misunderstood it.
phreedum
“At what point does one know everything about atheism.”
The only thing to know about atheism is that there are no gods-it’s not as if there are some complicated formulas or books to understand and study. Atheism is simplicity ittself.
Phreedum, you do understand that you yourself are an atheist, right? You don’t believe in zeus do you? or allah? or zoraster? so what sort of complicated journey of self reflection and philosophical study did you embark on before you abandoned your zeus belief? None you say? That is how simple jesus atheism is too.
You know, Theists are really starting to piss me off. Can all they do is discredit us? Jesus!
You were mentioning books useful in countering theist arguments…I’d recomend “The Blind Watchmaker” and “The Ancestor’s Tale” by Richard Dawkins. Both very good well thoughout information about evolution. “The Blind Watchmaker” is meant as an answer to many creationist arguments…plus it’s one of the books that made the late Douglas Adams realize his atheism.
And to tie this in with the Spiritual discussion…I challenge anyone to read ‘The Duckbill’s Tale’ in “The Ancestor’s Tale” and not be awestruck by how awe inspiring nature can be. I was floored when I read this passage.
AUGH!!! I cringe over all my bad spelling mistakes and poor syntax…I think my meaning is still intact though
phreedumbshit
That is the dumbest shit I have ever heard. Atheism is Logic and Reason. At what point does one know everything about atheism? Shit dude, you have NO concept of what Atheism is. Unfortunately, sadly, many Atheists here don?t either.
True phreedumshit?s god does not exist, nor Mohamed?s nor any of the other 1000?s or 10s of thousand?s of gods created by man. ALSO pretty conceited to say, ?Hey we as Atheists know the ABSOLUTE truth, when we really don?t. Perhaps this is what pisses off the majority of the country. Who are we to say, HEY!, since I do not see or experience it, it is a lie!
The gods are provable to be a lie. BUT the supernatural? Where is the proof that there is NO afterlife? Come on Atomic, RA and anyone else! Just because we have no proof of something, is not a reason to say something does not exist. We can prove phreedumbshits gods do not exist but can we prove that there is no such thing as an afterlife, or a life-force or something? These are not proven nor disproven scientifically and we can not form an opinion yet.
What is the supernatural? From ?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernatural?
The supernatural (Latin: super- “exceeding” + nature) refers to forces and phenomena which are are not observed in nature, and therefore beyond verifiable measurement. If a phenomenon can be demonstrated, it can no longer be considered supernatural. Because phenomena must be subjected to verifiable measurement and peer review to be considered as a scientific theory, science cannot approach the supernatural.
There have been many things accredited to the supernateral that science has now been able to explain. And to say we know everything is a bad thing. Science is constantly expanding and things that were one day supernateral may some day become natural. Gods will not.
billh:
Ummm…it’s KA now. ‘Absence of evidence doesn’t mean the evidence is absent’ – I don’t fly w/that.
& I don’t recall anyone on this site (for that matter, any atheist) ever saying that I/we know ‘everything’.
& trust you me, I’d probably have said the same thing a decade ago.
“There are more things in heaven & earth, Horatio, than is dreamt of in your philosophy.” – Hamlet.
The intricate, beautiful mysteries of this world precludes a shutdown of wonder.
I’m fairly certain everything does indeed have a scientific explanation.
Is there an afterlife? I doubt it. Not a 100% conclusively.
But as they say in Missouri:
“Show me.”
Is there an afterlife? I doubt it. Not a 100% conclusively.
But as they say in Missouri:
“Show me.” Exactly! Not 100% either way.
damn, screwed up the blockquotes. Hell with it, going to bed. Naw one more time.
Exactly! Not 100% either way.
There have been some that have indicated that the supernatural is an absolute joke.
I have heard that before, and it still gives me headaches.
Thats better, good night.
Comment from: billh
This is an honest statement even if it does contradict your other statements…
OK. How? Please prove God does not exist and I’ll stop believing…
EXACTLY!!! So if you can’t prove that there is no “life-force” then why claim atheism is true?
This statement is SOOOO rich and true and honest!!! If one admits there may be a “life-force” then how does one know this life-force is not a god?
It will be interesting to see the back peddling on this…
Morning Preedumb,
Shouldnt you be worshipping at your tax free club this fine morning
phreedumpshit:
There will be no backpedaling here.
Obviously you don’t know what the definition of an Athiest is.
From wikipedia:
Atheism, in its broadest sense, is a lack of belief in a deity or deities. The opposite of theism, this broad definition encompasses both people who assert that there are no gods and those who make no claim about whether gods exist or not. Narrower definitions of atheism typically include only those who assert the nonexistence of gods, excluding non-believing agnostics and other non-theists.
Although some atheists tend toward skepticism, and toward secular philosophies such as humanism, naturalism and materialism, there is no single system of philosophy which all atheists share, nor does atheism have institutionalized rituals or behaviors.
I do believe in life force as an energy but this does not mean in gods. Every god has been man made to make themselves feel more secure and to answer questions that science is now answering. Therefor no need for gods except for those too insecure in themselves.
And as far as ‘disprove your god’, whe don’t you prove that I am not your god! How are you going to do that! huh?
Oh, sorry, it was suppose to be phreedumbshit. Sorry for the misspelling
Comment from: billh
I said “atheism” not “atheist”.
And quoting Wikepedia? Hmmmm…
atheism
the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=atheism
But more to the point. You have just stated…
Previously you stated…
ALSO pretty conceited to say, ?Hey we as Atheists know the ABSOLUTE truth, when we really don?t.
Come on Atomic, RA and anyone else! Just because we have no proof of something, is not a reason to say something does not exist… but can we prove that there is no such thing as an afterlife, or a life-force or something?
So which is it? Are you absolutely sure your possible “life force” is not a god?
You can’t have it both ways…
yep. absolutely.
Ok, Phreedm,
You said you’d be willing to discuss any verse with me but you’re not sure why I would want you to.
I want you to explain the three versus i quoted just like I did for you.
Why? Because I would love to see someone try and justify killing a rape victim, and explain why god the bible thinks the earth is flat, and I’m curious if believing in witchs comes with your belief in god.
Also you said, think back to the topic of the tread.
I have thought about it and I understand your point. The tread was “science has delivered more awe than religion.” Religion has not DELIVERED more awe than science. It might make claims that it will once you die, but thats not the same thing. Thats not a bad thing, thats not an attack on religion or a reason not to believe. You don’t need to fight this idea. The best thing about Science and nature is that its here for all of us to share and enjoy. Religion is not for everyone. Some of us don’t want one and want to be able to talk with other people that feel the same way, just like how religious people go to churchs of their choosing to find people they agree with. You coming on this thread and constantely defending religion and attacking athiesm (even if its with the noble goal of saving us from eternal damnation) is just like an athiest going to church and interrupting and arguing with the whole congregation. That’s what you christians just don’t get. It’s depressing we can’t have the same freedom you have to share your thoughts and ideas of life with other people we agree with.
This was a great thread with a positive spin, and right from the start you tried to destroy it. Why don’t you just leave us alone. You’re not going to “save” anyone here. So in all due respect, go away.
(sorry for all the spelling and grammar)
I like “phreedumpshit” better. That’s what he does–he dumps shit for free!
Phreed For nearly seven years ago I was a ordained deacon at a local church after “going through the motions”. I found myself engaged in heated debate concerning and defending the inerrancy of the Bible. After coming to grips with the fact that I really wasn’t sure the Bible was inerrant, I began a self-study of the subject. In just one evening I found a dozen “problem passages”.
From that point on I realized that the bible could not be the word of a loving God.
The more I studied and read the works of Thomas Paine and Robert Ingersoll plus countless others,the more I was convinced that God is just a man made myth.
I wrote For nearly seven years ago That should read”for seven years”
That experience was more than 20 years ago
“I began a self-study of the subject. In just one evening I found a dozen “problem passages”.
From that point on I realized that the bible could not be the word of a loving God.”
JONBOY, I came to the truth in a somewhat reversed manner. When I was five I realized that there was no love in god, just jealousy and prejudice, etc., but then I spent the next 35 years trying to discredit my youthful insight. Perhaps one of the biggest crimes of religion is that it wastes so much damn time in one’s already brief lifespan.
So sad.
You go Jon Boy
I am enjoying reading all of your thoughts and am truly interested in what athiests think. I don’t need to hide the fact that I am a Christian, and I don’t feel insecure in saying it. However, I do notice a lot of hostility toward Christians and it makes me think there are a lot of angry people that have probably been hurt by Christians- in some respects I can see why. Some Christians are pretty arrogant and uncaring. But not all, so it’s not fair to lump them all into one group. It saddens to think about how people have been wronged by Christians, but I don’t pity anyone. We are all responsible for what we think and believe, and even if we don’t agree with each other we each have the right to say what we think and believe. I appreciate how you guys tackle such tough topics and if you don’t mind I just might read along a bit and learn from your rantings and ravings
But I don’t care to stay in a place I’m not welcome so if Christians aren’t welcome here just say the word. I can handle it! 
Later.
Comment from: Ryan [Member]
Ok, Phreedm,
Sure. You’ve got to quote actual scripture though…
Comment from: JONBOY [Member]
What denomination?
All are welcomed Marv…..and the only problem I have with Christians is that there beliefs clutter my public life…Thats all…..
Comment from: billh
You quoted earlier in this thread…
The Truth is you really don’t know. You claim to believe in a “life force” but then insist you’re “absolutely” sure it’s not a god.
You believe it’s “pretty conceited” of others on this board to claim to know the “Absolute truth” when “we” really don’t.
So help me out here…
If you(we) don’t know the “Absolute truth” then on what basis do you know your “life force” is not(absolute) a god?
Marv,
I can’t speak for the others but anyone is welcome to comment. What you have to be prepared for is spirited criticism of opinions based on no evidence. In this day and age it is difficult to arrive at an informed opinion due to the cornucopia of bogus authority.
A number of people here are fed up. Your characterization of many angry or hostile atheists will seem true on some days, yet on others a jocular mood takes over.
What irritates a considerable number of critical thinking people is having to read the same old arguments based on nothing more than a traditional FEELING that there must be a supernatural first cause.
There are two resident xians: Spanders, a judicious and sentient being who, while unable to give the sky god makes valuable contributions. And then there’s phreedm, a deluded nincompoop who when it comes to evidence puts the ‘ignor’ in ignoramus. We ought to avoid him but he/she says the most extravagant things.
It’s not really my place since I have only been here a short time but, welcome.
phreedump:
Don’t even know why I am responding to your questions, you are not really interested. But we as atheists must not come across as knowing the absolute truth or we will be as quilty as assholes like you. As far as knowing if a life force is a god or not… give me a break. You are asking the same question as “Is the orange sitting on my desk a god? Prove it isn’t?” Prove to me that the orange on my desk is not a god. ha. You need to prove that the life force is a god. Especially your god. You have absolutely zero proof. None. Nada. Zip. How many gods have been created by man? Many thousands. Does this say something? Where is your god when the world needs him, huh. When was the last prayer answered that can be proven to be answered by your god? I watched as all the millions of people prayed for Terry, not to have her life support pulled. Of course you will answer some crap such as, HE has a reason for not answering, or some other bs answer when the obvious is true. Grow up!
Phreedm you didn’t quote the actually scripture, so just look it up, im sure you have a bible in every pocket.
By the way jesus never existed.
No historian from his life time wrote about him, or any of the miricales that happened in his life time. All of the gospels were made up. Jesus is just a retelling of the Dianysies mythology. There is no Historical Jesus. And the books of the old testement were not divinely insprired, they made it into the bible by a popular vote of church officials. So don’t take it so literaly, its just fiction. Noahs flood didn’t happen. Adam and Eve never existed. You might as well give up, you picked the wrong religion. You lose, your not going to heaven. Why don’t you try buddism or something if you can’t cope with being alone in the universe.
You don’t have to be scared phreedm, it’s ok that there is no heaven.
billh
Did you peel and eat that orange on your desk?
I heard this voice, saying, “Mother! Why hast Thou forsaken me?” and later, “Forgive him, Mother, ne knows not what he does…squirt”
Have you sacrificed my only begotten orange?
billh…I’m only following your claims.
First you claimed you could “prove” God doesn’t exist. When asked for that proof you moved the target.
You challenged your bretheren about being conceited when they made such bold statements about the “afterlife” because no one knows for sure.
When asked about your statement you once again moved the target.
And to try and regain your composure you resort to character assassination…
And finally to once again try and change the discussion you then fall back on the “atheists” talking points…
Which by the way, if anyone was really interested in finding the Truth to your questions they’d succeed…
Don’t bother to respond anymore. Without a shadow of a doubt you’ve absolutely proven how bankrupt atheism is. This was priceless …
Comment from: Ryan
I didn’t quote actual scripture either…but I did give book, chapter and verse.
You on the other hand made 3 statements which you claimed to be scripture. They were not. So if you’re really interested in discussing Scripture meaning then by all means pick a verse…
Different subject all together…Try to stay on topic next time…
I’m surprised you give JONBOY the time of day. He plagiarizes his more intelligent sounding posts. Google part of his post up there, “you have accepted a book, adopted its precepts”, etc., and you will find it on a site called Biblical Errancy.
He’s been banned at Panda’s Thumb under the same nickname for doing the same thing there, consistently.
Would anyone like to take a guess at whether he was truly a minister?
Obviously Gleeson is showing is ignorance about the bible…he should of listened to his own opening statement…
you said
1 Corinthians 2:9
Hebrews 11:3
Isaiah 40:26
I said
Deuteronomy 22:23-24
Luke 4:5
Exodus 22:18
So whats your take on it?
can anyone tell me how to do block quotes, Im an old man that never got into technology. (don’t want to admit im 26 and work at a technology company, dont tell anyone)
Ryan
“
“
Do not use the “’s though.
opps, lets try that again.
“” your stuff “”
Do not use the ‘ ’s though.
crap!
Ok again.
“” your stuff “”
Ryan; Ka gave me this several weeks ago.
http://www.amptoons.com/blog/how-to-use-blockquotes/
damn! double crap.
OK!
less than sign blockquote greater than sign
your stuff to quote
less than sign /blockquote greater than sign
(blockquote) yourstuff (/blockquote)
Just replace the above
( with the shift comma
and
) with the shift period
I confuse myself sometimes.
phreedumbshit, you are useless to even talk to. You love to twist stuff out of the original meaning, to your own twisted logic, or I should say ilogical conclusions. Not worth talking with you, dickhead.
thanks Billh,
that made me a little dizzy though
My pleasure, welcome to the blockquote team.
Comment from: KB .
Exactly what I’ve said…