Atheists file lawsuit over Day of FaithThey say the city wrongfully spent taxpayer money.By JEFF BRUMLEY, The Times-UnionJacksonville spent at least $101,000 to plan and host its Aug. 12 Day of Faith anti-violence rally and now faces legal action from a national atheists’ organization that wants the money returned to city taxpayers.Mayor John Peyton promoted A Day of Faith: Arming Our Prayer Warriors as a way to mobilize the local faith and nonprofit communities to help combat the city’s growing homicide count, which stands at 103 for the year. There had been 96 homicides by the day the event was held.The city estimated that 6,000 attended the two-hour rally at the Jacksonville Veterans Memorial Arena. It featured a lineup of elected, civic and religious leaders who urged residents to pray and volunteer for mentoring and other programs they say could address the social factors behind murder and other forms of violence.But some people and organizations complained about the rally, saying it was overtly religious in nature and represented an example of government promotion of faith.American Atheists Inc. filed a motion in federal court in Jacksonville to stop the event. The judge rejected it, saying it was filed too late. Since then the organization said in court it will sue on behalf of taxpayers to recover the funds spent and to prevent the city from holding such an event again, said Edwin Kagin, national legal counsel for the New Jersey-based group.According to documents provided Friday by Cindy Laquidara, the city’s chief deputy general counsel, City Hall spent $9,180 on advertising, $6,856 for DVD and flier production and mailing, and $80,268 for expenses such as T-shirts for volunteers, an event logo, printing, bus service, events staff and video production. The latter amount includes $20,854 for venue charges.Another $5,097 was spent on staff time dedicated to the event.Laquidara said it’s possible additional expenses were incurred but have not been turned in to the mayor’s and legal counsel’s offices.The American Civil Liberties Union of Greater Jacksonville, meanwhile, has filed records requests with the city seeking information on who was invited to the rally and its funding.Chapter President Ken Hurley said he’s received some of the requested documents and that he has forwarded them to ACLU attorneys for review. But he said it is far too early to predict whether the organization will also file a lawsuit.”You can’t expect that but you can’t rule it out, either,” Hurley said.Kagin said American Atheists is taking action against the city because the Day of Faith was a prayer service financed by taxpayers.”The city has no business being in the religion business,” he said.A Day of Faith: Arming Our Prayer Warriors featured short sermons by several Christian ministers, prayers and religious music. One Muslim and one Jewish leader also participated.Peyton and other city officials have consistently downplayed the religious angle of the event and argued that all residents were invited to attend. The mayor has also noted that secular nonprofit agencies were heavily involved in the effort.The Rev. Mark Griffin, pastor of Wayman Chapel AME in Jacksonville, disagreed with those who characterize the rally as a religious revival.”I think it was money well spent and I don’t think it was inappropriate at all,” Griffin said Friday. He said the event’s focus was on preventing homicides, not on promoting any one faith over another.”There were people of all faiths there and there were people of no faith there – no one was being screened at the door,” Griffin said.jeff.brumley@jacksonville.com, (904) 359-4310
Betelnut,
I agree that race is better described as a social construct than some sort of genetic category.
From what I understand, the way the ?genetic variance? stuff is generally stated is that there is greater genetic variance within any ?race? itself than there is between a person of one race and some other person of some other race. So, you, a white female would be more genetically similar to many other (not all) blacks than you would be many other (not all) whites. It?s not ?caused? by anything specific? it?s just evidence of how terribly similar people are genetically speaking. As you say? we are all Africans from waaaay back.
I?ll have to check them out. Thanks for the heads up!
Mxracer,
(nods) Agreed. Definitely, agreed.
Rob,
Yes, please leave ?numbers? in quotation marks because using numbers to truly investigate something and making grand leaps from cherry picked, randomly applied facts to ridiculous assumptions are two very different things.
You showed that the crime rate in DC is higher than in VT and NH. Then you decided that this meant that the African American population was the cause of such. You have shown no causal relationship. None!
I?d invite you to wander around Vermont (local attractions include: black bears, maple syrup, and the Green Mountains!) and then wander around DC (local attractions include: free museums, impossible traffic, and speeding politicians hitting road barriers at 2 am). They are very different places. Most notably, the population density of Vermont in 2000 was 65.83 people per square mile, the population density of New Hampshire was 137.8 people per square mile, and the population density of Washington, DC was 9,316.4 people per square mile. Pretty darn different, eh? I?d imagine the population density has something to do with the higher crime rate? but who knows. Maybe it?s the dearth of maple syrup.
Just picking random numbers from random geographic locations and deciding that this ONE FACTOR that you?ve decided to isolate is the cause for the difference in crime rates is a ridiculous manipulation of statistics. Don?t do it.
I checked out the page you linked to and several other pages on the site. Entirely aside from the fact that much of it made my skin crawl, I?m going to have to question the scientific and academic merit of your site based on? well? it?s lack of scientific and academic sources or anything else along those lines. The web site itself existing is certainly not evidence. I could create a web site contained the statement, ?The spawn of the Jolly Green giant are the only truly intelligent people on the earth! And this is substantially true!? Wouldn?t make it true, even if I used the word substantially.
So, what?s left. The Bell Curve. In addition to the various links posted by others, Reason magazine criticized the methods the researchers who wrote The Bell Curve used to control for socioeconomic factors: http://www.reason.com/9503/dept.bk.HECKMAN.text.shtml While you like to type that its methodology has remained unchallenged, this is not the case (see above link or other ppls link or do a google search or whatever). IQ scores. Based on a recent post, you even apparently accepted that IQ scores can be manipulated and thus aren?t the hard and fast measures of personal brilliance. As an additional note, my career is built largely out of raising students scores on various aptitude tests. Statistics. Well, your statistics suck. Already addressed. So, what?s left?
Ohh… I really messed up the blockquotes up there. Anyone with magical fixing powers want to fix them for me? (smiles hopefully) I just need a / in the second tag in my second set of blockquote tags.
aviaa:
I fixed it for ya, darlin’. Bill’s in the mail.
robguy387:
Well, actually, I brought up the fact that I do badly on tests to prove a point. Obviously, I’m a least a little above average in intelligence. I appreciate all the medical advice, thanks, but likelihood is, I’m not going to take 1.
I do a fairly intense 1 1/2 hrs. of Tai Chi 6 days a week. Been doin’ it 2 yrs now. It blows power walking right out the window. Am familiar w/most of the medicinary advice you gave (though the fruit thing is a little out there).
Now, let’s take the evolutionary path on this ‘race’ crap.
Humanity originated in Africa. Some Neanderthals migrated up to Europe, some stayed in Africa. Centuries later, the African ancestors, known as Cro-Magnon, migrated northwards. The 40 points of speciation occurred because the southern hominids had a high fish diet.
Now: who was ‘superior’? The Cro-Magnons wiped out the Neanderthals.
Hmmm…mebbee I should eat more fish?
KA,
Thanks much!
The ?Bill? you refer to is a smart, talented young lad who shall fix any future random problems (such as blockquote issues) rather than a paper with numbers scribbled on it, correct? If it?s the second, I don?t want it. I could very much use the first, though.
If you do, be sure to eat smaller ones and less of the predatory, larger varieties. Also, try and obtain fish that have been raised in fish farms rather than open water. If you eat the wrong ones (tuna, shark, swordfish, and many others), you will have mercury build up in your tissues and it will make you dumber.
AT:
The only fish I really like is catfish (yeah, a scavenger/bottomfeeder, I know).
aviaa:
Well, I had to slip Bill a mickey: seems he’s not partial to being mailed. I did remember to put airholes in the package, though.
KA,
Good. We wouldn?t want a repeat of the LAST time you tried to mail me an assistant. (grumbles about people- and militaries- who try to ship humans in airtight containers)
back in the good old days we didn’t
have alot of crime in the south because we would kill troublemakers quickly.someone wrote they respected dr.king the fact is king was scum who
cheated on his wife we should have taken care of him sooner.that money should have been used to give the police a bonus.
*** OFF TOPIC ***
Mercury Poisoning
“atomic testing” is “right on” about the fact that eating the wrong kind of fish too often will give you mercury poisoning. The older fish in the ocean have high amounts of methyl mercury. This gets more and more concentrated in their flesh as they continue eating the other fish.
I was taking a lot of fish oil capsules for years and I was getting VERY ‘dumb’ as the result. It got to the point I could NOT remember what I was supposed to be doing. I needed to make a list in order to remember what I needed to do: A, B, C, D . . . .
Finally it was diagnosed I was poisoned by mercury. The
“quickie” treatment for this takes about 4 months and it absorbed some of the “fast” mercury pool in that time. But to get out the “slow” mercury pool will require about 2 more years of treatment with lots of DMSA and alpha lipoic acid.
Do NOT make the mistake I did and buy the cheapo kinds of fish oil capsules. We got ours at a Sam’s Club and that was a damn big mistake.
Mercury is so poisonous that one of the Scandinavian countries PAYS the cost of having all its citizens amalgam fillings removed and replaced with the non-toxic kind.
Germany is now said to have also *outlawed* the use of mercury tooth fillings.
Information I’ve seen says that the compounds of mercury are the second most toxic compunds that exist – right behind the compounds of plutonium.
Dr. David Williams says that eating sardines is very healthful. I believe he recommends eating sardines about twice per week.
Fish should contain ALL of the mineral elements we need, because Man has not been able to extract those minerals as was already done by agri-business – as they farmed-away a lot of essential compounds from our soil.
robguy387 that was interesting.it is a disgrace the way we use the oceans
as a garbage dump.
Thanks Aviaa for explaining “genetic variance” a million times better than I ever could! I’ve read quite a bit about evolution etc, but I can have a hard time remembering specifics sometimes (the curse of the book worm, I suppose). Perhaps I should eat more ginko/fish, etc!
Yes, I recommend Skeptic Magazine to everyone on this thread. As I said originally, even that magazine sometimes has articles that I don’t quite buy into (like the recent articles about morality and religion), but it is always quite interesting.
Betelnut,
Your explanation was already quite good? I just wanted to add in the ?why? part on which you were speculating. Rereading, I might have come off as trying to ?improve? what you said. Wasn?t my goal, I promise.
I have the same problem? random facts replace random other facts and I find myself trying to remember what is related to what else. I have friends who can quote books from memory. Not me! I don?t mind it though. I feel if I read a lot, I may not read as carefully (and thus not remember it all). However, if I get the general gist of the subject, I can always go back and find the exact phrase or concept I?m looking for later.
Wait .. you don’t have to put up with prosletizing neighbors. Just tell them you belong to the Church of the Bovine Scatology. This is the only church you will ever need.
Found at at http://www.theborg.info, the Church takes no prisoners — it hates muslems and christions alike. Searching for something you can believe in? You can find it there. I am the grand POOBAH, but you can jsut call me Heinie.