http://thebibleletter.com/Thanks Freakgirl!This is a great idea to stop Wal-Mart from peddling hate-filled violent smutt to our children. This is far more dangerous than any other book or video game because people have been known to kill — by the thousands — based on what this book tells them to do. Oh yeah….
Wal-Mart is free to sell (or not sell) whatever it chooses. I’m not interested in attempting to pressure a corporation into removing things I might deem offensive (like the bible).
I realize there are many Christians that try to force corporations into abiding by their particular moral code – I wouldn’t want to be associated with that kind of individual.
As much as I despise Wal-Mart, and the bible, it?s their business if they wish to continue to pander to their religious patrons by selling such hate-filled bullsh%#.
In protest, I prefer to simply not shop there.
I agree with DVanWechel. I can’t stand Wally, but I wouldn’t make them not sell something like the bibble. I just don’t shop there.
I thought the whole happy holidays thing was dumb too. We all thought that was dumb. How is this any different?
Same goes for me. They are free to sell the fantasy if they want to. Just don’t shop there.
I think, and don’t quote me on this, that this letter is to show the irony of Wal-Mart’s censorship of products like Jon Stewart’s “America” or music that they deem inappropriate. Being such a huge force in the market, it’s difficult not to be subject to the moral whims of the owners. Coming from NJ, I couldn’t understand why people wouldn’t just shop somewhere else. Driving through rural north carolina and realizing they’re the only game in town for some of these people it dawned on me how much control they actually have when they have the de facto monopoly of a small town. I have never, and probably will never set foot in one of their stores. Oddly though, they started selling emergency contraception. I guess it was too much money to pass up.
I have only been in a Wal-Mart once or twice in my life, and absolutely refuse to shop there or at Sam’s Club. To me, it’s simply not worth the $ savings to see the damage done to local businesses when Wal-Mart moves in. I make a point to frequent smaller shops, in the hopes that my meager dollars will help them.
Yes, I am willing to pay more. One day (I hope), as a whole, we’ll really realize that there are so many more important things than money, and sometimes it isn’t worth it to save a buck.
Wal-Mart practices it’s own brand of censorship. Are you surprised? Look at their main customers. Many, many poor and uneducated people just eat right into the hands of the Waltons. These are the same ones your con-man local pastor targets. Do you know if you tithe, god will improve your fortunes?
Plus, next time you’re in a wal-mart, look around at how NASTY the store is.
I don?t shop at Wal-Mart because I?d rather other stores continue to exist. However, as stated by others, I don?t really care what they sell.
Spanders,
Maybe money. I actually think they were pressured into selling it. I read that Wal-Mart was planning on not stocking emergency contraception at first as it might ?offend? some customers, but several groups became quite upset and threatened to protest. As it should be.
I am sure Rick Pierson would sign this petition. Rick Pierson knows a lot more about the Bible than most Christians.
Today I received a copy of an e-mail from Donald Wildmon, Founder and Chairman of the American Family Association. He’s angry that Wal-Mart “has asked for and received
permission to join the National Gay & Les-bian Chamber of Commerce,” and he emphasizes that the “NGLCC is a leading promoter of homosexual marriage.”
The anti-Bible petition to Wal-Mart actually agrees with Donald Wildmon’s paradigm, in which the Bible discriminates against homosexuals, take it or leave it.
Another paradigm, supported by many Christians as well as atheists, suggests that the Bible is a product of past cultures, and people might gain by understanding those cultures and disagreeing with them in accord with our present understandings of the world.
I have always made the choice not to shop there, but I know from experience traveling in 46 of the contiguous states, that for many people there really aren’t many options.
Regardless, I would never EVER attempt to stop the sale of a book. Even if it was the most brainwashing, evil, fallacious thing in print (which I really think is Cosmo magazine). Its downright unamerican. I even own a copy of the bible, i am sure many other atheists do to. Why stop Wal-mart from selling them? Thats an absurd notion. All wal-mart cares about is a profit anyway…to them it is just another product.
I would rather see some boycott of bibles in hotel rooms. That actually offends me. I don’t ever see a koran or a torah…just gideons bible. I have taken to the habit of replacing gideons bibles with “What is a Freethinker” pamphlets from the FFRF (yes I really do do that). Individual proaction to me is much more reasonable than an unconstitutional petition agains’t a retailers right to sell a book.
Well, I know this smacks of hipocracy, mainly because it is. However, the thought here is to make Wal-Mart come to terms with its own censorship issues. Music and books are an art form, and to be appreciated by the beholder. But to ban some books for obscenity reasons, and not other books that are clearly more obscene, well, that’s just un-American.
We won’t succeed in making WM take the Bible off the shelves. The objective here is to make people think why the shelves are censored in the first place.
Signing a petition like this is too much like censorship in my opinion.
I dislike the fact that Walmart censors music and won’t buy Cd’s there because of it.
But I shop at Walmart all the time because of price and convenience. This is a free market society last I checked, and if the mom-and-pops can’t compete, they need to update or reinvent themselves to respond to the challenge.
Since a lot of you have only been to Walmart once, or never, let me tell you something about my trip there today. Normally I’m not off during a weekday but I was today, and I couldn’t believe how many older citizens, all riding around in powered carts, were doing their shopping by themselves! No one helping them, no real assistance, completely independent! Maybe a one stop shopping experience at reasonable prices, (Seniors being on fixed incomes and all), isn’t a bad thing for them.
Just my opinion.
Thats a good point. But drumming up a lot of clap trap by trying – even symbolically – to ban the bible seems a little misguided to me. Maybe its the only way. But I just don’t believe in the notion that if they do it, its ok if we do it to prove a point. Ends. Means. etc.
Dave,
“But to ban some books for obscenity reasons, and not other books that are clearly more obscene, well, that’s just un-American.”
I disagree ? at least in this case. This isn’t the government deciding a book is not appropriate for its citizens and banning it. This is a company who has decided not to carry a particular product. I’m not sure why (it appears) some of those posting on this thread don’t realize a company choosing to not carry certain products is NOT censorship.
Regardless, there is a distinct contradiction in what they choose to sell and not to sell. But that contradiction is good for business and Wal-Mart is well aware of it. They understand their patrons, and realize banning a “liberal” book such as John Stewart’s, and selling a book most of their patrons claim to live their life by, is good business.
Spanders wrote:
Dave wrote:
(nods) First, I think you are both likely right, but I still don?t think this is necessarily a good way of making the point. I can?t seem to access the actual petition (my computer appears to be censoring it), but does it say anything along the lines of, by selling the Bible and yet not selling other politically charged and/or risqu? materials, Wal-Mart itself is being hypocritical? or is it just a petition to remove the bible for being full of hate and obscenity? The latter is likely to be misinterpreted by the general masses as hypocrisy on the part of the signers rather than a humorous jab at Wal-Mart?s policies.
I would think that anyone who would pick up the material that Wal Mart doesn’t stock would not shop in Wal Mart in the first place. I myself have never stepped foot into one and probably never will. IMHO they are free to stock whatever they want. As a matter of fact looking at what Wal Mart stocks and doesn’t stock is a good indication of where America stands on a lot of issues. Obviously we still have a long way to go.
As an American corporation, Mal-Wart is free to sell their cheap plastic Chinese crap to fat Midwesterners so I must decline signing the petition. As we all know, this company is all about profit and in spite of a well orchestrated boycott by xians to not sell the DVD “Brokebak Mountain” Mal-Wart stood by their decision to stock this mnovie and they made a lot of money off of it. Shop Target instead which is pro gay and supports many progressive organisations and causes.
Sometimes satire is the only way to get the point across. Please re-read Davids post carefully.
Face it, WalMart is a huge national chain that caters to the lowest common denominator thus making billions of dollars a year.
Satire rarely works when dealing with the either the lowest common denominator OR people who only care about the bottom line.
They wouldn’t sell Bibles if the Bibles didn’t sell.
I get the point of the petition (or whatever it is) but since the targets of the satire (the people who shop at WalMart and/or WalMart itself) will either find it incredibly offensive or not understand the satire, I think “the point” will be lost by many. A boycott of WalMart makes more sense since it is not attacking the Bible which just p*sses people off.
I’ve shopped at WalMart numerous times and, personally, I find the fact that they seem to only sell “Full Screen” DVD editions of movies very offensive. That’s reason enough to boycott their asses!
I agree with David.
I signed the petition. I love Jon’s book “America” and yet I understand why it may be banned from Wal-Mart, but to allow the bible? They better make up their mind!
I think we’ve got quite a few miles to go before doing something like this.
We got a ‘war on xmas’, a war on easter, it’s 1 thing to make people think, another to start stomping on toes.
I worked at a Toys ‘R us a while back, & there were kiddie-fied bibles there.
Besides, that’d add to O’Reilly’s rantings & ratings.
I think it’s a bad idea at this point. We need more friends right now, not more enemies.
I’m not against it, I just think we need to pick better battles. Finish what’s on our plates right now.
I would sign a petition against Walmart’s strong arm tactics against booksellers and the Cd suppliers to change content. But never against their right to sell the Bible.
Yikes…I think some have gone off the deep end on this one…
Someone should do a little search through history to understand how Walmart began. They actually filled the gap when the Big Box stores pulled out or rural America. Now they are the favorite target of the left. (Well at least tied with Big Oil).
****** OFF TOPIC *******
Remember the hate that filled these pages a few months ago over Plame and Wilson? Libby and Rove?
Remember how so many felt duped by them…? Of course they’re guilty.
Dave even bought into the lie about Rove being indicted before the weekend was over…
Well, well, well…
Where’s the outrage now? How’s it feel to be lied to and used?
Talk about letting your hate blind you to the Truth…
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/02/washington/02leak.html?ei=5065&en=1939cd793ece790a&ex=1157774400&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print
Phreed,
Yo dude, it still means that the lying cowardly sacks of horse manure in the WH are still full of it. Never crossed your mind that this administration, which has shown time and time again to be petty, would lash out to someone outing them for the idiots that they are. And afterwards pushing a peon forward to cover their tracks. Yeah, that couldn’t possible happen. Pleazzze, I do hope someday you’ll grow up and find a brain.
But then what could one expect from those bunch of yellow-bellies, that you fawn over, who put the party before the country, put the party before truth, put their own wallet filling opportunities before being there for the citizens of their country.
I hope you feel lots safer with them being in charge because the rest of the world, and more and more of the USA, certainly doesn’t. You know why?
Because of them the world has become a more dangerous place and because the draconian measures they’ve taken haven’t done anything except acknowledging defeat to the terrorists.
I hope you were feeling proud about the fact that your heroes have negogiated and paid of those kidnappers of those Fox reporters. Once more the administration has shown to be liars and cowards. Yup, sure something to be proud of.
—–
To the rest of the posters here I apologize. I just needed to vent.
I feel that it would be wrong to sign it because of censorship. But there are two sides of this sword. The Walmarts that I go to sell NO adult magazines. If they do not sell those because it offends some religious folks, then they should not sell the bible.
Of course, Wal_Mart has the right to sell what ever it wants. But Wal-Mart not only is a part of our culture, but they also control a large share of the retail market. Unfortunately, they have the power to shape what consumers can buy, regardless of where you shop.
Here is a short list of previously banned items:
Magazines: Maxim, Stuff and FHM citing complaints over racy contents. They also refused to sell Penthouse, Playboy, Playgirl, Sept 2001 InStyle issue(semi-n*ked Kate Hudson) and the SI Swinsuit edition.
CDs: ones that carry warning labels about explicit lyrics. Instead, the store sells sanitized versions of albums, with some songs omitted or covers redrawn to pass muster with the chain’s buyers, according to the NY Times.
also banned: Sheryl Crow’s “Self-Titled” and John Mellencamp’s “Happy Go Lucky”
Books: “America (The Book)” a fake textbook written by Jon Stewart, the host of The Daily Show. The reason: because it contains a fake photo of the members of the U.S. Supreme Court in the nude. Also George Carlin’s “When Will Jesus Bring the Pork Chops?” due to the paraody of the last supper on the cover.
They also stopped selling handguns, but rifles and shotguns are still available at every day low prices.
Interestingly enough, Wal-Mart does sell beer, rum, vodka, whiskey and other assorted liquors.
Also, the insurance the company offers to its employees does NOT cover birth control in any shape or form, and only this past year did they begin to cover routine childhood immunizations.
I signed the petition. It makes a statement, if nothing else. Wal Mart should be aware of how consumers feel about what it may chose, or not, to carry.
Ah, the ills of Wal Mart. I’m so glad to see that many on here boycott Wal Mart. However, boycotting alone is not going to fix what’s wrong with Wal Mart and the other megacorporations that have adopted similar policies in the name of “free market competiton”.
Might I expound? As a former union organizer and supporter of organizations like Wake Up Wal Mart, I feel I have a bit more insight than most (especially Pheedouchebag).
The censorship Wal Mart practices is hypocritical, but it’s only the tip of the iceberg. I appreciate the motivation behind the petition and I’ll gladly sign it, but in the end it is an act of futility unless the other issues are addressed along with it.
First of all, the dominance of Wal Mart’s market share is proof positive that lasseiz faire/free market principles are inherently flawed and corrupt. Wal mart operates as a monopoly (Sherman Antitrust Act, anyone?) in many small towns across America, and their policies are intentionally geared to destroy existing small busineses, property values and prevailing wages where they open new facilities.
Those elements combined directly leads to a reduction in the standard of living in those aforementioned communities.
Now, let’s talk about what Wal mart’s political activities. In my home state of Misery (MO), Wal Mart is funding an organization called “All Children Matter”, whose main issue is the championing of school vouchers to be used to help fund parochial schools, which of course is part and parcel of the desire of religious zealots and neocons to destroy quality public education in America.
And we all know that this has been going on for a few decades now, since the days when the founder of American Atheists, Madalyn Murray-O’Hair, won the battle to have prayer banned from public schools.
Now, this begs the question “what would motivate this megocorporation do to such a thing?” For starters, a pious population is a more subjugated population, one that will not realize or care that their constitutional rights are being destroyed, especially in regards to the 1st Amendment. Sure, this applies the seperation of Church and State, but it also applies to workers’ rights. The reason wee have labor unions to begin with stems from a Supreme Court decision from the 1870’s that said unions were legal because workers have the frredom of speech, freedom to assemble and the right to petition grievances.
Wal Mart is scared to death of their workers being able to have their constitutional rights enforced in the workplace, which is imposible unless you have a collective bargaining agreement in place.
Which lead us to the illegal union busting tactics that Wal Mart has employed for decades. They illegally fire workers for expressing pro-union sentiments, illegally instruct their managers to use unti union tactics, and have closed entire stores and departments if the employees gain a pro union majority.
So, for Wal Mart to invest in a Political Action Committee like “All Children Matter” is like an insurance policy that helps them maintain a subsevient workforce and consumer base because of the higher possibility that these people will not develop critical thinking skills.
They simply think they’re blessed to have a job that pays poverty level wages without decent health care benefits.
Meanwhile, the Wal Mart heirs are billionaires, built on the backs of exploiting the christian community they disingenously trumpet.
I would define the whole thing as neo-feudalism…
Well, I don’t think this is a great idea:
http://biblioblography.blogspot.com/2006/09/whaling-on-walmart-high-cost-of-low.html
At least, not right now.
From remy: “Sometimes satire is the only way to get the point across. Please re-read Davids post carefully.”
I watch the Daily Show and the Colbert Report. Funny stuff. The anti-Bible petition to Wal-Mart is just whiny.
What’s the point I’m supposed to get? Wal-Mart management, like most of our parents’ generation, has a low tolerance for expletives, nudity and gratuitous violence, and they draw lines of acceptability like everyone else, including free-speech liberals. Would I prefer that the Daily Show not get bleeped like a pinball machine, and that the war-mongering Bush administration get their civilian-murdering asses impeached? You bet. But this petition isn’t going to do it. It won’t make the Republican apocalyptic army think, it doesn’t make me laugh, it’s nothing that hasn’t been projected ad nauseum to deaf ears for years.
Whiny liberals, whiny atheists. Hmm… maybe it’s easy.
As a general rule, I too don’t shop at WalMart or Sam’s Club. I get all of my groceries from Winn Dixie down the street, and fill my car up somehwere else.
One reason I don’t like WalMart is because it tends to drive the smaller guys – including some national chains – out of business (Microsoft does this too, but probably to an even larger degree).
I also don’t like the censoring that WalMart does. When I was downloading music a while ago from WalMart’s site, several of the artists I liked were not available, because Walmart deemed them “inappropriate”.
If WalMart is going to restrict what music groups they will carry because their music is “inappropriate”, then why should WalMart carry a book that is filled with incest, rape, murder, slaughter, deceit, blood sacrifices, etc. and that commands us to kill gays, people who work on Sunday, kids who don’t honor their mother or father, as well as telling us to hate our parents and children?
I’ll sign it.
PS: I like your monicker.
I was signer number 1,771.
You do know who Gerald Joyce is right, DNAunion? Well, personally, he has helped me reject the idea of the Judeo-Christian God intervening in nature. He has demonstrated the efficacy of Darwinian evolution to create novelity in evolving systems. Well, Joyce doesn’t deserve a Nobel Prize for this because there is better evidence for the fact evolution occuressuch as genetic homology, but he has made some groundbreaking contributions in the field of nucleic acid catalysis and evolution. So from reading his work, he has helped me come to the conclusion that an intelligent designer is superfluous and counter-intuitive. I am only a teenager, but I do hope that one day
I will be able to work with him.
Well, I could tell you one more thing Joyce: He would make a better God than the Judeo-Christian God. At least he is not an egomaniac who is jealous (see Exodus 34:14), nor does he demand people to murder entire villages at his own whim. Laconically, Joyce is not an asshole, unlike the Judeo-Christian God.
Want to get in to contact via e-mail. I have been lurking around here and you are quite insightful.
Hmm… there is always some controversy around the Grand Theft Auto games, but the Bible is just as vile.
Whoa! This has to be a joke. You seem to have some sort of misunderstanding about what the conversation is.
We’re not trying to replace gods with men. We don’t think gods exist. Personally, I don’t think we should entertain any ideas about deification, because that is the seed of totalitarianism.
If this GeraldJoyce thing is just snark, then you got me. If not, you need some psychiatric help.
Well, I know he has done a lot of experimentation on nucleic-acid catalysis as relating to the origin of life, and a while ago he created a continuously evolving system of nucleic acids (at the time, researchers had to manually intervene after each round of replication to setup the next round). You obviously already know this from your later statements.
I don’t know anything about his views on religion.
My e-mail is rpierson@sw.rr.com
I can’t keep up constant conversations: as you probably noticed, I haven’t posted here in several weeks. (I work fulltime during the day, and this semester am taking microbiology and tutoring college algebra and organic chemistry at night. I also post at another atheist site that has a science-specific forum.)
Yup, you’re right it is a joke. My point is that practically anyone would make a better God than the Judeo-Christian God. The Judeo-Christian God reminds me of Grand Moff Tarkin.
Well, for all practical purposes, I am an atheist (so Joyce is not God), but I am somewhat agnostic towards the existence of a deistic God, but we have enough knowledge to rule out the existence of the gods of many “revealed” religions.
Well, Joyce’s research allowed me to slice the idea of God intervening in biology with Ockham’s razor. So, thank you, Professor Joyce.
“The Judeo-Christian God reminds me of Grand Moff Tarkin”
Hehe, that’s awesome on so many levels. What does that make JC? Thrawn?
Yup, you’re right it is a joke. My point is that practically anyone would make a better God than the Judeo-Christian God. The Judeo-Christian God reminds me of Grand Moff Tarkin.
Just checking to make sure this wasn’t some new doomsday cult. I’m an artist (screenprinter, really) and don’t follow science like I really should. I dabble in it, but nowhere near some on here are into.
Um, can we get back to Wal Mart, please?
I agree with Esperdome. Wal-Mart has the right to carry or not carry whatever products it wants to, and if we don’t like it, we can take our business elsewhere. In areas where Wal-Mart is nearly the only retailer around, then it becomes an issue of convenience: Is boycotting Wal-Mart worth driving the extra miles to get to a different retailer? It depends on how far the individual is willing to take it.
Wal-Mart, like all other businesses, bases their product decisions around their target market. If they determine that most of their patrons like an item, they will carry it. If they find enough of their market is offended by something, they won’t stock it. The difference here is, Wal-Mart has determined that most of its target market is Christian. I don’t see where that’s hypocricy. Christians don’t find the Bible offensive (although I think any reasonable person should), and they do find products such as Playboy and explicit CDs offensive. Wal-Mart is simply following what their customers want (or what the majority of their customers want), doing what’s best for the bottom line, just like any other business. I can’t fault them for that. I shop there now because I can’t afford to shop elsewhere. If I find a better product for cheaper, somewhere else, then that’s where I’ll go to get it. That’s Capitalism.
Hey Dagny, save the date… our halloween party in raleigh is coming up november 4. More details to follow…
Spanders, Why November? Halloween is in October. I have some vacation time to use at work, so I will do my best to get up there
spanders
Doggone it!
I already have 2 proior engagements on Nov. 4!!!
i shop at walmart all the time to say
only poor an uneducated people shop there is not correct.mom an pop stores are gone in many areas.and for
senior citizens walmart is a good deal.so what if they sell the bible
you are not forced to buy it.
Go and shop at WalMart if you like. This is still America, barely.
All WalMart has done is make products cheaper to the US consumer. Horray for WalMart. But. At what price?
Almost 100% of what they sell is Chinese made by the cheapest labor foce in the world. They have even put the Mexicans out of business. Indirectly and in some cases directly they are responsible for tens of thoudans, if nor more, of Americans loosing their jobs. I was an internationsl cargo pilot for many years and I can tell you what we import form there and what we export to there. We export virtually NOTHING! All you supply siders with argue that it is just business. Well, let me tell you something. At some point critical mass will be reached and there won’t be enough people in this country left to buy the homes, the cars and the refirgerators. Then who do we blame? Will the Chinese buy our stuff as we will become a third world econimic power and work for slave wages as we used to many years ago. Out jobs are being stolen by slave labor and a governemnt that gets FREE medical care and FREE retirement for liv=fe with zero monetary input from them. Not even money to social security. They have it made so they don’t care what happends to us. Their big business handlers, and I include both parties in this, have see to it that we truly have the “Best government money can by.” We are the laughing stock of the world. You should read what they say about us in Europe. At least they make some effort to peotect their worker’s their economies. Only a very few at WalMart even get medical benifits, just like millions of us who are in the same boat. The corts are allowing airlines to eliminate their pension benefits and the rest of us will eventually follow, assuming you even have a pension to look forward to. It’s only a matter of time folks. We live in a dangerous violent society here in the US, we always have. Someday when this ctical mass is reached I sure hope I’m not alive to see it. It will make the civil war look like walk in the park. Class warfare at it’s worst and I see no one who even has the balls to talk about it. We can thank the fat cats at the WalMarts of this world for the result. Just kepp buying those chep Chinese clothes folks. Just don’t be suprised at the eventual resulsts.
As a family on a budget, we shop at Wal-Mart. I don’t have to boycott the entire store, I just don’t buy things I disagree with. If Wal-Mart has to stop selling the bible, then the company should stop selling mystery and romance novels. They should also stop selling movies with a rating higher than G. Music should also be banned from the store’s sales.
Wal-Mart is not the only retail company that sells that book. Motels/hotels keep bibles in the rooms. The area I live in has public billboards advertising the National Bible Association. —Did you know that there was a National Bible Association? I didn’t until I saw the billboard.
In the end, this is a “free” country and companies can sell pretty much anything to anybody.
I love you Freakgirl and I don’t even know you. And I like your other posts as well. Your petition is the most excellent and educated petition I have ever seen and signed! I posted a petition that I sent to Wal*Mart a few years ago asking them to, “Please stop selling guns, ammunition, and camoflouge clothing.” Why? Self-proclaimed hunters at a hunting club were shooting their rifles, pistols, and shotguns over our heads to get their kicks! They all went to the same church in this corrupt small town in Louisiana and all of these hunters knew that I did not attend their church. I was considered an “outcast and lost” if you do not attend church in this town with these hunting buddies. I am going to frame your petition and place it on my wall where I can view it everyday! It’s the Best! Wal*Mart promotes a lot of religious material that I find offensive every time I venture through the magazine isle of their store. Someday the religious material will not be there at Wal*Mart. Again, Freakgirl your petition is excellent.