88| – Wrong again and again and again. The Neo-Cons predicted that the apocalypse would occur yesterday and yet the sun rose again this morning. Jerusalem did not go up in a mushroom crowd. Neither did Washington, DC. I know because I live in the Washington metropolitan area. Oh well, I’m certain this will not deter them from their prediction of the end of the world again next week.BTE
> I think he’s slowsky
I think I even talked to you when I was here.
I posted in June of this year.
Slowsky:
Good reason to be. The religious folk are trying to accelerate it.
From Mpoxsx: “I’m not at all suprised by the apocalypse not coming today. If there was a God he would want to catch us off-gaurd.”
Reminds me of a spoof bumpersticker: “Jesus is coming — everyone look busy!”
As for the term “Neo-Con” — I thought that was political, not religious — someone who likes war, dislikes the poor and wants to privatize all government services for the sake of his stock portfolio. Someone like Dick Cheney, who couldn’t care less about the end of times because he’s been facing it with each heart operation.
I don’t believe it was the “neo-cons” who came up with the prophecy.
Ahmadinejad believes HE is the one who will usher in the end of the world.
So, while we’re all laughing, tell me. How are we going to deal with this mad man?
Articles refered to in this thread tend to lessen the idea that Iran is a REAL threat. Does anyone believe Iran will NOT have the potential to create a mushroom cloud in the near future?
Facts are facts. Laugh if you want to, but these are very critical times…
So I’m curious. How would the most enlighted members of the American society deal with this mad man…?
“Don’t take life to seriously…you’ll live longer. And at the risk of “ruffling a few feathers”…Humor is one of lifes gifts…it’s amazing how many “so called grownups” haven’t discovered that simple truth.” — phreedm 1/31/06
Take your own advice and lighten up…
Iran can’t even enrich enough uranium to the minimum 20% U-235 to operate a reactor, let alone the 85% U-235 to yield an explosive. They’re decades away.
Iran can’t even enrich enough uranium to the minimum 20% U-235 to operate a reactor, let alone the 85% U-235 to yield an explosive. They’re decades away.
Of course, by then, the world markets will respond to provide a safer, cleaner way to deal with Iran
Whoops, windows lock up, perhaps housekeeping can take care of that?
Here’s how I would take care of that “mad man” Phreedm…
…I would force him to partake in a blog where you are the only poster…that aught to do it.
I wanted to stop back and thank everyone for the kind words. Today is the day, we should find out exactly what is going on. It’s been quite the nasty roller-coaster ride! The unknown is the scariest part. They hadn’t been able to do a good biopsy due to other health issues but finally got it done yesterday.
So, he’s in an adventist hospital because it has the best cancer center under insurance. To arvadaatheist, he was at Littleton, but was moved to Porter ICU on Monday night. The tumor is interfering with his blood flow, breathing & heart function, so they want to watch him closely.
I did discover that all we needed to do was SPEAK UP re: religious beliefs (or lack of), and have had no problems since. It does bother me to see all this “god” shit all over the hospital, but that’s kinda the least of our worries.
I guess I’d describe him best as an agnostic. Doesn’t exactly “not” believe in god, but hates religion. His sister and my sister added him to their prayer circles. I tried to tactfully explain that while prayer may make them feel better mentally, POSITIVE THINKING is what will help him both physically and mentally. Under other circumstances, I’d discuss this with them…right now I don’t have the energy.
I am doing pretty good staying positive, though I’ve had a few “moments” here and there. JP, thanks for the meditation site – i will check it out. I’ve been using some meditation and it does help clear my head.
Again, thanks for the positive thoughts. I knew this was the one place where no one would pray for us!
Bones
mxracer652
We should learn from history. North Korea began the same way, if I am not mistaken. It will not take them 10 years and they will have enough neighbors to help them out to get by any week embargo that is put on them. I do not want to pass on to my child anymore headaches cause we were too much of pussies to stand up to these lunatics. The longer we let them continue, the stronger they will get.
And put it on the calendar, I agreed with phreedummy on this one. But he is still a jerk.
Phreedm
Well, my thinking is as follows. Let’s for a moment put ourselves in the shoes of Mr Ahmadinejad or some hypothetical Iranian average citizen.
They are in a volatile area of the world, controlling natural oil reserves that are coveted by an oil hungry superpower with a huge conventional and nucular (sic) arsenal, a demonstrated proclivity to use military power to advance their own ends in the face of world opinion, and headed by a leader of questionable intelligence who believes fervently in a religion that thinks the end of the world is due at any moment.
Were I Mr Ahmadinejad I’d be bolstering my defenses too.
Were I a representative from a neutral country I’d be a damn site more nervous of what the USA may do militarily than what Iran may or may not do.
Off topic:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14497678/
Plan B is going to be made available, without prescription, to women over 18.
Oh no! Here comes the drumbeat of the fundies. To them morning-after contraception is abortion (never mind the fact that all it does is prevent pregnancy in the same way the pill does, just in souped-up doses).
Phreedummy,
You’re being a twit. Weapons grade plutonium and uranium must, by necessity, be of MUCH higher quality than the kind that is produced for power production.
We have our spies. I’m sure they know that, were they to enrich past a certain point, we’d be well aware of their intentions. It simply takes a lot more work to design a nuclear weapon and fuel for it. Then, they have to solve the problem of delivery. Nobody in the world is going to allow them to test ICBM delivery systems. The only real threat they’ll be is to their neighbors, never to us.
If you think I’d support your warmongering out of fear of trumped up Fox news reports, you’re sadly mistaken. No, we’re not going to go kill some more muslims, no matter how happy that makes you. The shrub had to learn from Iraq that he really didn’t have the support of the American people and that the small minority of fundies that run the Republican party were lying to him.
You don’t seem to have a problem with Israel having nukes, yet they’re just as fucking crazy as the muslims in that area of the world. Just because some people in our country support their religion doesn’t make them less crazy.
UH-OH
Pluto is no longer a planet.
Is that apocalyptic?
It’s still there, just reclassified.
How confusing for all the students about to do solar system models made out of clay or styrofoam balls.
You s’pose they ‘ll get extra credit for including Pluto, but adding a sign that says “This used to be a planet, but now it’s not.” ?
atomictesting:
You don’t see Israel making the boast of killing all Iranians do you?
Yes we have spies. Alot of good that did us in Iraq and Korea, eh?
Yep just like North Korea? And who needs an ICBM?!? Just put a nuke in a cargo carrier or on a cruise ship. There go your ports.
When was the last time you saw Jews blow up an airliner? Do you really expect Israel to sit back and wait for the Iranians who have made it clear that they want to kill Jews, to develop the bomb that WILL be used to exterminate them.
Trust me, our biggest mistake was being Politically Correct and pacifists. This has been going on for over 50 years and no one has but the hammer down on these radicals. Now it may be too late. Israel should have gone in and finished the job. We should have been right there with them.
Before you start calling me a warmonger, and Bush lover, and a republican, let me assure you, I am non of those.
billh,
I’m w/ HNZ & AT on this one, enriching uranium is a monumental task & they don’t even have the technology to operate a reactor, christ, most US research universities have reactors. That is how technologically disadvantaged they are.
Then you have the problem of yield, it’s directly proportional to the mass of the core. For a Nagasaki-like explosion, we’re talking about a 5 ton object, not something you can hide in a suitcase. To do any significant damage, there is no other option than ICBM, which is another significant technological hurdle to clear. N Korea has given up on ICBMs for the time being, because their technology sucks too. Sure, a small one will sink a ship, but destroy an entire port??? Not for decades.
No one has said that they could not have them. It is only that they do not want to be monitored. We have offered to supply them with the material. Please tell me that you guys do not think for a second that they do not want to own the bomb. As far as a Nagasaki-like explosion, that was primative. They are much smaller now and many many times more powerfull. Also, I keep hearing that it is not our problem, they will not be capable for many years of destroying entire cities.
continued rant:
I fear that we have screwed up this planet for our children. They are going to have to bear the attrocities that are going to come if something is not done NOW.
If you had someone living next door to you and he said that he did not like how you looked and was going to kill you and your family as soon as he gets enough guns, what would you do. Go to the police (U.N.)? And they do nothing! Bet your ass, I would be preparing to protect my family and as soon as it is apparent he is ready to attack, I would take him out and not wait for the bullets to riddle my family.
You have a society that wants you dead, and are seaking bigger and badder weapons, you better do something about it before it is too late.
End rant
No, trust me, our biggest mistake was getting involved in the first place. Yes, I am an isolationist. The muslim fanatics wouldn’t give two shits about America if we hadn’t interfered and taken the side if Israel. You don’t see anyone bombing Swiss or Canadian airliners either. Why? Because they stayed the fuck out. It is not our war and it is not our problem.
atomic:
I agree there, who said our leaders made the right choice. Now we are damned if we do or not.
But some will say, “we should have let the Nazi’s exterminate the Jews, should have never gotten envolved”. I hope you are not like that.
We should have never given that worthless chunk of unwanted realistate to the Jews since it was next door to their longtime enemies. Big fucking mistake.
So what do we do? Let them wipe each other out and let us live with the fallout? Or do we take the obvious and ugly solution. Neither way is good.
christ, realistate? I should use a spellchecker. eh?
Do a little study on the design of nuclear weapons. If you are referring to smaller bombs with higher yields, you are probably referring to the hydrogen bomb, which is considerably more sophisticated and difficult to manufacture. It requires both enriched uranium and plutonium arranged so that a nuclear fission reaction can touch off a secondary nuclear fusion reaction. This is not a trivial design (as opposed to the rather simple design of a fission bomb) and producing a functional hydrogen bomb without assistance would require testing, which the world will not allow.
This means that any bombs they would be able to make without testing would likely to be similar in design and megaton yield to the two dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
You still haven’t clarified how this could be efficiently delivered, as the technological hurdle of producing ICBMs is also extraordinarily high. They have no nuclear submarine fleet and delivering a nuke by ship or aircraft would be impossible because we monitor the air and the sea.
Don’t watch Hollywood movies for an idea of the size or yield of a nuclear weapon. The only real nukes we really have much to fear of in this country is a “dirty bomb” which is nothing more than radioactive material packed around regular explosives. This kind of design doesn’t make it particularly effective at killing a lot of people rendering it as mostly an effective way to pollute an area so as to make it unlivable.
billh-
Maybe I’ve asked this before – but do you live in FL??
HZ:
Much as it bugs me to say it, Phreddy’s not all that far off.
Ahmadinejad is on record as declaring he wants to push Israel’s populace into the sea, & declares the Mahdi (the 12th? Imam, the equivalent of their messiah) will be arriving in approx. 2 yrs. & the muslims do indeed have their own version of the ‘Rapture’.
Be that as it may, Iran’s not been at war since they got their asses handed to them by the Iraqis, & Iran’s youth has been pro-USA as a rule (I think that’s mostly because they want all the good stuff Westerners had, like jeans & mcdonalds & a little touch ‘n tickle).
Ahmadinejad very well could be putting on a show, like Khadafi back in the Reagan days.
But he bears watching. He makes me nervous.
atomic:
Don’t watch Hollywood movies for an idea of the size or yield of a nuclear weapon. The only real nukes we really have much to fear of in this country is a “dirty bomb” which is nothing more than radioactive material packed around regular explosives. This kind of design doesn’t make it particularly effective at killing a lot of people rendering it as mostly an effective way to pollute an area so as to make it unlivable.
Seems you know your stuff but this last phrase not only insulted me but yourself. You know better. I’ve found you to be very intelligent in your past posts and perhaps this is an emotional thread and your not thinking as well as I know you can.
I was in the Navy for 11 years and I know a bit about nuclear weapons. Below are three sites that in very simplistic terms (hope it is not too simplistic for you) but is very good in answering your questions. I’ve also lived in Nagasaki for 5 years and know what kind of damage a simplistic bomb like the Fat Boy can cause. My mother in law actually saw the flash.
How difficult could it be to create a bomb that would wipe out a city?
http://www.nti.org/e_research/cnwm/overview/technical2.asp
How can one be sneaked into the US?
http://www.nti.org/e_research/cnwm/overview/technical5.asp
What kind of damage could a small nuclear weapon do?
http://www.nti.org/e_research/cnwm/overview/technical3.asp
Where would they get the material?
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/consumerawareness/a/missingpluto.htm
My biggest fear is that in 10 years, every major terrorist group is going to have these weapons and we will truly be fucked. Who do you strike back at when one goes off in New York City or LA? These terrorist live as civilians and belong to no army. The only way to strike back is to obliterate their countries. This is what scares me.
So what is the answer? Do nothing now? Strike now at the hate builders? Who are the hate builders? Anyone (clerics, and leaders) that preaches hate, destruction, and intolerance needs to be dealt with now.
Hope you appreciate our concern and not think of us as war lovers, cause if so, then I have failed to get my thoughts over to you properly.
damn, the block did not work, oh well.
pixel, I did for many years, many years ago. Tampa.
reluctant:
I totally agree that most Iranians do like the West and Ahmadinejad may be putting on a show to appease the clerics, but this is really dangerous. I have some good friends that are Iranian and they are sick about what is happening to their country. This is ALL about religious control.
I intended no offense and apologize if offense was taken.
Most of this country’s exposure to the idea of what a nuclear bomb is in modern times comes from Hollywood portrayals. Hollywood intentionally makes these things smaller than can actually be manufactured because they have to fit in a frame and a nuke is a good element for building suspense.
I’m referring to portrayals such as the one in the movie “Stargate.” There have been some small warheads made, but are extremely complex to build. They required significant testing to manufacture and there is no way that testing could occur today without satellites picking up the radiation released by the explosion.
Now, it appears you’re more concerned about terrorism. As far as I am concerned, a country like Iran does not equal terrorists. It is unfair to claim that entire countries are to blame for a few crazy fundies in it. I don’t think we, on this blog, would like the characterization that we are fundamentalist religious zealots or that even a majority of Americans are. We are, for now, still a secular nation (for the most part) and we do have a lot of level-headed people here.
I do not believe the best way to deal with terrorism is being employed. Bombing entire countries into the dust will do little more than incite the very kind of terroristic violence we’re claiming to eradicate. I personally believe that special forces should be charged to have occasional clandestine deployments to take these bastards out wherever they are hiding. I also think the country should make it well known to the world that we are doing so (but give no details how we accomplish the missions) and that if they resist or capture any of our troops involved in these missions, then we’ll bomb the shit out of them for aiding and abetting terrorism.
They know we can do it, and surgical strikes save their civilians. It’s the only ethical thing to do, in my humble opinion.
I, too, believe they want them but I do not believe they’ll gain access to them. Even if they do, it will be difficult for them to manufacture functional bombs of the sizes required to easily smuggle them into the country. If they test them, it will become readily known and appropriate security measures taken. If they don’t test them, there is a high degree of probability that their devices will not function.
While it is pretty easy to manufacture a device capable of achieving critical mass, it takes a certain amount of precision in workmanship and insight to produce a device capable of achieving supercritical mass. There is every indication that an untested nuclear device is more likely to melt down than explode.
I consider the idea of bombing entire countries into dust in order to get a few terrorists abhorrent. How does that make us any better than them?
What frightens me more than Iran getting a dirty bomb is the notion that some in America and Israel entertain, ie., preemptive attack.
NEVER underestimate the power of nationalism. There are a lot of Iranians who do not support Mahmoud Ahmadinejad but interfering (at this point) would be a huge blunder. (see President Bush) It would galvanize anti-US sentiment.