88| – Wrong again and again and again. The Neo-Cons predicted that the apocalypse would occur yesterday and yet the sun rose again this morning. Jerusalem did not go up in a mushroom crowd. Neither did Washington, DC. I know because I live in the Washington metropolitan area. Oh well, I’m certain this will not deter them from their prediction of the end of the world again next week.BTE
No, trust me, our biggest mistake was getting involved in the first place. Yes, I am an isolationist. The muslim fanatics wouldn’t give two shits about America if we hadn’t interfered and taken the side if Israel. You don’t see anyone bombing Swiss or Canadian airliners either. Why? Because they stayed the fuck out. It is not our war and it is not our problem.
atomic:
I agree there, who said our leaders made the right choice. Now we are damned if we do or not.
But some will say, “we should have let the Nazi’s exterminate the Jews, should have never gotten envolved”. I hope you are not like that.
We should have never given that worthless chunk of unwanted realistate to the Jews since it was next door to their longtime enemies. Big fucking mistake.
So what do we do? Let them wipe each other out and let us live with the fallout? Or do we take the obvious and ugly solution. Neither way is good.
christ, realistate? I should use a spellchecker. eh?
Do a little study on the design of nuclear weapons. If you are referring to smaller bombs with higher yields, you are probably referring to the hydrogen bomb, which is considerably more sophisticated and difficult to manufacture. It requires both enriched uranium and plutonium arranged so that a nuclear fission reaction can touch off a secondary nuclear fusion reaction. This is not a trivial design (as opposed to the rather simple design of a fission bomb) and producing a functional hydrogen bomb without assistance would require testing, which the world will not allow.
This means that any bombs they would be able to make without testing would likely to be similar in design and megaton yield to the two dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
You still haven’t clarified how this could be efficiently delivered, as the technological hurdle of producing ICBMs is also extraordinarily high. They have no nuclear submarine fleet and delivering a nuke by ship or aircraft would be impossible because we monitor the air and the sea.
Don’t watch Hollywood movies for an idea of the size or yield of a nuclear weapon. The only real nukes we really have much to fear of in this country is a “dirty bomb” which is nothing more than radioactive material packed around regular explosives. This kind of design doesn’t make it particularly effective at killing a lot of people rendering it as mostly an effective way to pollute an area so as to make it unlivable.
billh-
Maybe I’ve asked this before – but do you live in FL??
HZ:
Much as it bugs me to say it, Phreddy’s not all that far off.
Ahmadinejad is on record as declaring he wants to push Israel’s populace into the sea, & declares the Mahdi (the 12th? Imam, the equivalent of their messiah) will be arriving in approx. 2 yrs. & the muslims do indeed have their own version of the ‘Rapture’.
Be that as it may, Iran’s not been at war since they got their asses handed to them by the Iraqis, & Iran’s youth has been pro-USA as a rule (I think that’s mostly because they want all the good stuff Westerners had, like jeans & mcdonalds & a little touch ‘n tickle).
Ahmadinejad very well could be putting on a show, like Khadafi back in the Reagan days.
But he bears watching. He makes me nervous.
atomic:
Don’t watch Hollywood movies for an idea of the size or yield of a nuclear weapon. The only real nukes we really have much to fear of in this country is a “dirty bomb” which is nothing more than radioactive material packed around regular explosives. This kind of design doesn’t make it particularly effective at killing a lot of people rendering it as mostly an effective way to pollute an area so as to make it unlivable.
Seems you know your stuff but this last phrase not only insulted me but yourself. You know better. I’ve found you to be very intelligent in your past posts and perhaps this is an emotional thread and your not thinking as well as I know you can.
I was in the Navy for 11 years and I know a bit about nuclear weapons. Below are three sites that in very simplistic terms (hope it is not too simplistic for you) but is very good in answering your questions. I’ve also lived in Nagasaki for 5 years and know what kind of damage a simplistic bomb like the Fat Boy can cause. My mother in law actually saw the flash.
How difficult could it be to create a bomb that would wipe out a city?
http://www.nti.org/e_research/cnwm/overview/technical2.asp
How can one be sneaked into the US?
http://www.nti.org/e_research/cnwm/overview/technical5.asp
What kind of damage could a small nuclear weapon do?
http://www.nti.org/e_research/cnwm/overview/technical3.asp
Where would they get the material?
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/consumerawareness/a/missingpluto.htm
My biggest fear is that in 10 years, every major terrorist group is going to have these weapons and we will truly be fucked. Who do you strike back at when one goes off in New York City or LA? These terrorist live as civilians and belong to no army. The only way to strike back is to obliterate their countries. This is what scares me.
So what is the answer? Do nothing now? Strike now at the hate builders? Who are the hate builders? Anyone (clerics, and leaders) that preaches hate, destruction, and intolerance needs to be dealt with now.
Hope you appreciate our concern and not think of us as war lovers, cause if so, then I have failed to get my thoughts over to you properly.
damn, the block did not work, oh well.
pixel, I did for many years, many years ago. Tampa.
reluctant:
I totally agree that most Iranians do like the West and Ahmadinejad may be putting on a show to appease the clerics, but this is really dangerous. I have some good friends that are Iranian and they are sick about what is happening to their country. This is ALL about religious control.
I intended no offense and apologize if offense was taken.
Most of this country’s exposure to the idea of what a nuclear bomb is in modern times comes from Hollywood portrayals. Hollywood intentionally makes these things smaller than can actually be manufactured because they have to fit in a frame and a nuke is a good element for building suspense.
I’m referring to portrayals such as the one in the movie “Stargate.” There have been some small warheads made, but are extremely complex to build. They required significant testing to manufacture and there is no way that testing could occur today without satellites picking up the radiation released by the explosion.
Now, it appears you’re more concerned about terrorism. As far as I am concerned, a country like Iran does not equal terrorists. It is unfair to claim that entire countries are to blame for a few crazy fundies in it. I don’t think we, on this blog, would like the characterization that we are fundamentalist religious zealots or that even a majority of Americans are. We are, for now, still a secular nation (for the most part) and we do have a lot of level-headed people here.
I do not believe the best way to deal with terrorism is being employed. Bombing entire countries into the dust will do little more than incite the very kind of terroristic violence we’re claiming to eradicate. I personally believe that special forces should be charged to have occasional clandestine deployments to take these bastards out wherever they are hiding. I also think the country should make it well known to the world that we are doing so (but give no details how we accomplish the missions) and that if they resist or capture any of our troops involved in these missions, then we’ll bomb the shit out of them for aiding and abetting terrorism.
They know we can do it, and surgical strikes save their civilians. It’s the only ethical thing to do, in my humble opinion.
I, too, believe they want them but I do not believe they’ll gain access to them. Even if they do, it will be difficult for them to manufacture functional bombs of the sizes required to easily smuggle them into the country. If they test them, it will become readily known and appropriate security measures taken. If they don’t test them, there is a high degree of probability that their devices will not function.
While it is pretty easy to manufacture a device capable of achieving critical mass, it takes a certain amount of precision in workmanship and insight to produce a device capable of achieving supercritical mass. There is every indication that an untested nuclear device is more likely to melt down than explode.
I consider the idea of bombing entire countries into dust in order to get a few terrorists abhorrent. How does that make us any better than them?
What frightens me more than Iran getting a dirty bomb is the notion that some in America and Israel entertain, ie., preemptive attack.
NEVER underestimate the power of nationalism. There are a lot of Iranians who do not support Mahmoud Ahmadinejad but interfering (at this point) would be a huge blunder. (see President Bush) It would galvanize anti-US sentiment.
the president of iran believes he will usher in a shiite messiah.iran
may not be close to a nuke but they are making good progress on missiles.
young people may be pro western but the clerics have the power.
Mpoxsx glad you are back.about the fuhrer i think irving made a good point that henchmen like himmler bare
most of the blame for the crimes.what is your view.
Comment from: atomictesting [
Hmmm. WMD’s? So let me get this stright. This time you’ll trust our spies to deliver accurate information. This time if they claim Iran is months away from a nuke you’d support a strike?
Comment from: mxracer652
Are you so blind? Who says the only way for them to get enriched uranium is by producing themselves. Have you seen the “made in North Korea” sticker on any parts of the missles they’ve supplied the hezbo’s?
Comment from: HeatheNZ
You’ve got to be kidding me…
Are you in the camp of not only equating Ahmadinejad with Bush, but also stating currently the USA is more a a threat to world peace then Iran?
As I figured…not a single positive response. Well at least one did…
I guess there’s more then one “jerk” on the board…
Comment from: Bluzman
January? Sheesh…you’ve got way too much time on your hands…
Pheedoodie sez:
Are you in the camp of not only equating Ahmadinejad with Bush, but also stating currently the USA is more a a threat to world peace then Iran?
In a word, yes. And I’m not alone. Michael Schuerer, the man who ran the Al Queda division in the CIA, agrees:
http://www.harpers.org/sb-seven-michael-scheuer-1156277744.html
Michael Scheuer served in the CIA for 22 years before resigning in 2004; he served as the chief of the bin Laden unit at the Counterterrorist Center from 1996 to 1999. He is the formerly anonymous author of Imperial Hubris: Why the West is Losing the War on Terror and Through Our Enemies’ Eyes: Osama bin Laden, Radical Islam, and the Future of America.
Q: And finally, an extra question?what needs to be done?
Shuerer: This may be a country bumpkin approach, but the truth is the best place to start. We need to acknowledge that we are at war, not because of who we are, but because of what we do. We are confronting a jihad that is inspired by the tangible and visible impact of our policies. People are willing to die for that, and we’re not going to win by killing them off one by one. We have a dozen years of reliable polling in the Middle East, and it shows overwhelming hostility to our policies?and at the same time it shows majorities that admire the way we live, our ability to feed and clothe our children and find work. We need to tell the truth to set the stage for a discussion of our foreign policy.
At the core of the debate is oil. As long as we and our allies are dependent on Gulf oil, we can’t do anything about the perception that we support Arab tyranny?the Saudis, the Kuwaitis, and other regimes in the region. Without the problem of oil, who cares who rules Saudi Arabia? If we solved the oil problem, we could back away from the contradiction of being democracy promoters and tyranny protectors. We should have started on this back in 1973, at the time of the first Arab oil embargo, but we’ve never moved away from our dependence. As it stands, we are going to have to fight wars if anything endangers the oil supply in the Middle East.
What you want with foreign policy is options. Right now we don’t have options because our economy and our allies’ economies are dependent on Middle East oil. What benefit do we get by letting China commit genocide-by-inundation by moving thousands and thousands of Han Chinese to overcome the dominance of Muslim Uighurs? What do we get out of supporting Putin in Chechnya? He may need to do it to maintain his country, but we don’t need to support what looks like a rape, pillage, and kill campaign against Muslims. The other area is Israel and Palestine. We’re not going to abandon the Israelis but we need to reestablish the relationship so it looks like we’re the great power and they’re our ally, and not the other way around. We need to create a situation where moderate Muslims can express support for the United States without being laughed off the block.
If it wasn’t for the failures and sheer stupidity of W. and the neo con crowd, Iran would not be in the position it’s in today, where it has influence in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Ahmadinejad would have never been elected if Bush hadn’t have invaded Iraq. The same can be said about Hamas.
Bush enabled Iran, a he has enabled most of the moslem world that has taken up arms against us. That makes him far more dangerous than Ahmadinejad and a potentially nuclear Iran could be. Ahmadinejad will lose credibility when Bush is gone, either by impeachment or (if he’s lucky) he leaves office in 2009.
Besides, who are we to tell another sovereign nation what arms they can or cannot have? Not that I like the idea of a nuclear Iran, but they have the right to arm themselves as they see fit as a sovereign nation, just like the good ol’ US of A.
India has nukes now. What did Bush do? He kissed their ass, that’s what! What’s he doing about North Korea? NOTHING! He’s too scared to, yet he did plenty of sabre rattling. And what did that get us? A North Korean missle test. Good job!
Because Bush decided to follow his cowboy diplomacy, we are the bad guys instead of Ahmadinejad.
Had someone with some common sense been President (Gore or Kerry come to mind) to open talks without the silly posturing, then we might be able to get somewhere with Iran.
You know, like the Clinton Administration DID accomplish.
But then again, Clinton probably would have stayed in Afghanistan and got the job done, instead of cutting and running to invade a country that had nothing to do with 9-11.
IRAQ.
As far as Israel goes, they made their own bed. Let them lay in it.
“you’ve got way too much time on your hands…”
Nah…I’ve just got a good memory and know how to do a google search. My point still stands…
godless77,
Excellent!
It’s not the spies that I don’t trust. It’s the president, and especially his cabinet.