Mr. Cameron (forget his first name, the Titanic guy) made a special on the History channel about the Exodus. I didn’t see it, but apparently is was wrong in many areas.The biggest error is one on which I can comment having not seen the movie — it was on the History channel! Folx, the Bible is not history, it’s mythology. When the History channel airs stuff like this, it legitimizes the story as fact. It gives the viuewer the wrong information.We get the same thing from CNN, FOX, and ABC news when they do stupid reports such as “Is Armageddon coming?”. It totally takes away from the legitimacy of the channels, and I think we should let them know. I know I trust these stations less when they abandon fact for a story about fantasy presented as fact.
Exodus did not happen. Silberman and Finkelstein showed that in their book “The Bible Unearthed”.
There is even a tv documentary based on their book.
http://www.bibleinterp.com/commentary/Finkelstein_Silberman022001.htm
It bothers me too.
I was disappointed in the program about the quest for the “legendary Ark of the Covenant” on the History Channel.
These pseudo investigators went all over the place, spending thousands of dollars and time to get to the bottom of the legend.
They ended up in Africa by a tiny church where some lone religious guy guards the place. It turns out no one is “allowed” to see what is inside. !!!! That was good enough for them! Alrighty then.
What a crock. They purposely left that sham hanging. History my rear.
I’ve been disappointed the History Channel can’t separate myth from factual history. They have lost all credibility with me.
I expect a program where they climb Mount Olympus to see if Zeus was there. Just when they get to the top, they will have some reason not to answer the question.
CNN recently interviewed people about Bible end times and the Rapture BS with NO refutation. !!! This is news?
They cater to the credulous by feeding them stories like this. It perpetuates the lack of critical thinking skills in the general public when this stuff doesn?t get challenged.
The History Channel did run a really fascinating program on bible battles, however. We know that some of the cities mentioned in the bible were real cities (obviously Homer wasn’t lying about cities like Troy when he wrote the Odyssey). The program actually presented a lot of secular interpretations of the events mentioned in the bible and applied knowledge of historical and modern military tactics to the battles described.
I suspect that the individual that researched all of this (he was on the program) is an atheist by how he spoke. He seemed to avoid anything remotely resembling mentions of a deity or miracles performed by said deity. It was mostly an intriguing look into the battles between bronze and iron age men, the kinds of weapons they worked with, the tactics that would have been employed, etc.
To say that the bible contains no historical information whatsoever is dishonest. Every popular historical fiction must contain some accurate information, mostly about the time during which the fiction was written. After all, The Three Musketeers has a lot of detail about France during the period that is accurate.
atomictesting said:
“To say that the bible contains no historical information whatsoever is dishonest. Every popular historical fiction must contain some accurate information, mostly about the time during which the fiction was written. After all, The Three Musketeers has a lot of detail about France during the period that is accurate.”
I totally agree. You make an important point.
However, there is a difference between having a program about France and one looking for the feathers from the Musketeer?s hats.
What bothers me is when the fiction in historical fiction is treated like part of the history. Just because the Civil War happened doesn’t mean Rhett Butler existed because Gone With The Wind said so.
I agree that often the history channel has some excellent programs. I’m just saying catering to believers damages their credibility.
Hmmmm…Dave, still recovering from your quality time?
I’ve heard a lot of closed minded statments, but to state that the bible is not historical is intellectually dishonest…
I didn’t see James Cameron’s documentary, but I would characterize the Bible as a mixture of mythology, pseudohistorical legend, and history in that order.
The earliest parts are pure mythology, the most recent parts dealing with the Maccabees are probably somewhat accurate history, and everything in between is folklore with a possible germ of truth here and there, but just try to figure out what is true and what isn’t.
phreddy:
Well, there’s no doubt that there are some historical events in the bible, but they are few & far between.
The Exodus, which was a crux of the Judaic faith,has no archeological evidence for it. The trip in question would’ve taken 10 days, not 3 yrs. The egyptians only chronicled an invasion of the Hyskos, & a CE later, their expulsion.
The Moabite Stele also portrays a stark contrast to biblical story-telling.
David didn’t write the psalms, there were 2 davids, book of Daniel goofs up on current events (written in 2 CE BCE, not 10 CE BCE), etc.
Some historicity? Maybe.
Not much, though.
Phreedlebutt,
I’ve been wondering where you were! It’s been kinda dull without you to kick around.
Anyway, Dave did oversimplify a tad. From leestein:
That right there is a formula for propaganda. It’s quite brilliant really, because it uses just enough of confirmable historical events to base their bullshit on. All you have to do is create a hero figure that takes credit for leading some great battle or something, and presto! You have your bible passage.
Y’see it’s real easy to write fictional characters around real events. It happens all the time, to this day. Want an example? ABC aired “Invasion”, which was written around Hurricane Hugo in 1992.
RA,
Nice pickup! Them Joos were sure slow, weren’t they? I’d give ‘em 2 weeks at least, though.
3 years. *snicker*…
Oh and Dave? It would have been helpful to give us email addresses to the producers of the History Channel piece so we could express our displeasure to them for this dishonest and inaccurate portrayal.
I avoid all of those “news” channels like a plague. They’re just businesses, these days, and are only interested in getting the highest ratings, so they have to compete with each other by seeing who can sensationalize their stories the most.
There is No historical evidence to lend any credence to the story of the Exodus or infact any of the Penteuch. There is no evidence that Moses ever lived or was responsible as the author of those books.
Moses nowhere claims to have written the Pentateuch, nor does the Bible impute the Torah to him. Only the “law” is attributed to Moses. Secondly, the boooks are written in the third person. Moses never says, “I did,” except when making a speech. Thirdly, the books of the Pentateuch are never ascribed to Moses in the inscriptions of Hebrew manuscripts or in printed copies of the Hebrew Bible; nor are they styled the “Books of Moses” in the Septuagint or the Vulgate. This only occurs in modern translations. Fourthly, the great amount of reptition in the Pentateuch tends to prove there was more than one author. Things are often introduced as if they had not been referred to before, and show different peculiarities of language. And lastly, there is no important difference between the language of the Pentateuch and that of books written shortly before the return from the Babyonian Captivity. If there was an interval of 1,000 years, these writings would present an unparalleled event in history of languages: no change in 1,000 years,no way!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The legand of Moses is found in myth legends from the Mediterranean to India and has nothing to do with any particular ethnic group.
Like the rest of the Hebrew stories
it is full of racism and cultural bigotry.
The story of Moses is full of contradictions that make it impossible for historians to place it in Egyptian history. There is nothing in Egyptian history about an enslaved race making a grand exodus into the desert or about a series of plagues. The story of Moses’s birth seems to be borrowed from the story of King Sargon, and was later reused for the birth of Jesus.
The name Moses is an Egyptian root, and the fact that monotheism appeared in Egypt under Akenaten suggests that the Jews may have originated there, and that whatever really happened has been garbled in endless retellings.
Although I absolutely agree that “news shows” like this one are ridiculous, I am uncomfortable with anyone critizing a show he or she did not watch. That is like Christians getting all bent out of shape over Harry Potter (which they “haven’t read” or “The Last Temptation of Christ” (which they refused to see). It is intellectually dishonest. How can you criticize until you view?
On the same topic: Personally, I hate “documentaries” that show psychics, “ghost” spotters, UFOlogists, cryptozoologists and so on forth without balancing these fools out with more skeptical and scientific individuals. There are many shows like this on Bravo, The Learning Channel, etc. What a bunch of nonsense. Unchallenged pseudoscience hurts our quest for a sane socity.
Phideaux
What are you saying??? Of COURSE Rhett Butler existed! Next thing you know, you’ll be saying there never was a Martian named Michael Valentine Smith!
Hey, wasn’t the world supposed to end today? I guess there is still 1 hr. and 5 min. left . . . we’ll see what happens!
I saw a show on the Travel Channel on Italy. They showed the church where the AUTHENTIC Holy Grail was kept. I KNOW it was the real thing, because this lady there said it was, and she said that the church members all BELIEVED it was the Holy Grail!
I tell you, it was a pretty fancy schmancy goblet – looked like it might have been a little too expensive for a poor carpenter/preacher . . . .
I saw the show, and kept thinking the whole time, I should email RA and make sure he knows this is on.
They did provide natural explanations for all the plagues, which I found interesting.
But it did seem religiously biased.
At one point, they’d determined they’d figured out which “Mount” was “Sinai” but could only get so close with the camera crew tagging along. Supposedly the Egyptian guards wouldn’t allow them past a certain point. But, armed with “just a small hand camera,” they set out again, and made it to the top, to “find” all the conclusive evidence that this was where Moses received the 10 C’s and spoke to his hundreds of thosands of followers. It was amazing what kind of camera work they could do with that small hand camera! You’d have thought they still had an entire crew there! Whar a miracle!
Interesting too, how they interpreted the markings on the tombstones to fit the story of the parting of the red sea. And how they saw the piece of gold jewelry as a 3-part tableau of the ark of the covenant and the alter and the steps to it as only Moses would have viewed it.
It’s like Mary in the grilled cheese sandwich. You see what you want to see.
Oh, and funny, how the jews were so slow in their journey, but in the Red Sea episode, they just beat out a tectonic shift and a tidal wave.
Must be why gawd never makes appearances anymore…he’s still worn out from that Exodus experience!
Pixel
The world was supposed to end today?
How come today?
I didn’t get the memo.
Darn. I better put on clean underwear…
karen:
Hey doll, thanks for thinking of me.
Unfortunately, I don’t get the History channel. Probably for the better. I tend to laugh & yell at the tube when something like that’s fobbed off as fact.
Or how their clothes didn’t wear out, or their sandals, for those mystical 3 yrs.?
Hmmm…what are you wearing right now?
pixel:
Of course she did. I’m descended from her.
Dunno why everyone in my family has a penchant for curtains.
RA
I forget wear I heard/saw it, but the footwear not wearing out was supposed to be one of god’s miracles.
That wasn’t from the show though.
Wouldn’t YOU like to know! Actually, it’s pretty clean, but ya know, if the world’s gonna end, I figure I need to have on my Sunday holey best, like Mom always wanted me to have on when I got into an accident.
OOPS. It’s past midnight. I guess the need has passed. Another disappointing non-end to the world.
*sigh*
karen:
I learned about that from ‘Some Mistakes of Moses’, by Ingersoll. It’s somewhere in exodus.
Holey underwear? Almost sounds…mormon.
Yeah, a bit anti-climactic, that.
RA
Now that you mention mormon, I think it was on the same day that I watched a two-hour show about mormonism in the US. (It was a very lazy day; I finished up some crocheting.)
The show focused mostly on polygamy.
I just kept shaking my head at the way the women let temselves be treated, and what the men get away with, in the name of the book of Mormon.
Goin’ to bed now. See ya tomorrow.
Comment from: suttsteve
So exactly where do you get your current events?
While I agree major media does latch onto one topic and run with it. I refer to the recent John Karr blitz…
I thought it was pretty funny the other night on Stephen Colbert, he showed clips of Faux News explaining what Karr had for lunch on the plane as if it was interesting news.
There’s a crisis in the middle east, but they’re talking about him drinking champagne.
My take on the “educational” channels…
Discovery Channel = The Sensationalized Natural Disaster Channel.
TLC = We wish we were HGTV Channel
History Channel = The Half-Baked historical documentary channel that often promotes ideas like “Evidence for UFO’s in the Bible”.
There are others, but I no longer get those channels, like NGC, The Science Channel, etc.
There’s only one educational channel:
PBS
r4d
Yeah. I get “Barney” on our PBS affiliate.
How timely. I just watched a bit of a stupid program on the History Channel about finding Noah’s Ark.
I have blogged about this in the past and have written History Channel and actually received a reply.
I would suggest making our voices heard.
Alan
What was the HC’s response? More than a “thank you for your interest” form letter?
When I had cable I really liked the Discovery Channel, TLC, and the History Channel. Yeah, my bologna detector went off from time to time but I really liked watching medical shows, the actual historical documentaries (opposed to the religious bullshit the History Channel gets into) and the shows on engineering, etc. (Junkyard Wars)
I also liked the Sci-fi channel a lot.
Dear Alan,
Thank you for your interest. We, however, must pander to the interests of the general public, no matter how historically inaccurate the material might be. It is difficult to fill a channel with documentaries on real history because it takes time to do real research. The bible is an easy place to do research and people expect it to be historically accurate.
We apologize for the stupidity of our producers and board of directors. Thanks for watching our commercials.
Sincerely,
The not-quite-History Channel
The problem with cable “education” channels is that they are in the entertainment business, which has no interest in telling you what you ought to know but every reason to settle for telling you what you want to know (or want to think you already know.)
For most people in this country, being challenged with new and sometimes unsettling information is taken as a personal insult, and it’s not good business to insult your audience (unless your talking about comedy, which is probably why the most educational show on cable is the Colbert Report.) It’s all about stroking people’s egos so that you can milk them for advertising dollars.
If you want real educational programming, stick to public broadcasting. They get most of their financial support from people who actually give a damn about quality programming, and they’re relatively independent and immune to outside influence despite the Bush administration’s worst efforts.
Best shows:
Frontline
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/
Nova:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/
Scientific American Frontiers:
http://www.pbs.org/saf/
Wide Angle:
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/
Independent Lens:
http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/
History Detectives:
http://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/
American Experience:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/
Holy crap! It looks like Frontline has pretty much every episode available for online viewing. Find a fast connection and start watching!
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/view/
as you might imagine, I listen to a lot of NPR. I specifically like Brian Lehrer on WNYC (93.9 fm). He’s my model for asking good questions: http://www.wnyc.org/shows/bl/
I also get news analysis from my friend’s website http://www.pinr.com
and of course the Daily Show and Colbert Report
polygamy how widespread is it.where it is legal do most practise it.
Atomic, I love the Discovery Channel’s Biker Build-off. Mmmmm–Billy Lane (sigh). I’m going to meet him this Saturday. I can’t wait! We talk on-line because we may be related (well sort-of). My stepdad’s name is Billy Lane too, and both of our families hail from Western PA (about 20 miles apart). Guess I’m braggin a bit. Sorry.
Concerning that History Channel show about things depicted in the Bible (Old Testament), I was sorry to have missed seeing that program. The History Channel usually does a fine job of NOT prostletizing FOR religion. It is to be presumed that the people responsible for the History Channel programming are just Too Smart to be sucked-in by the idiotic religious hucksters’ mythology. I believe I once saw an ad for the History Channel that mentioned “Pope Joan”. This was the Pope who had been ‘annointed’ and was then travelling by foot in a procession through Rome – heading back to the papal apartments. Part way back on this trip, this Pope suddenly fell ill and collapsed in the street. As the faithful worshipers gathered to see what was wrong, the Pope proceeded to give birth to a child! The outraged mob of citizens were said to have beat this ‘pope’ to death right on the spot. Although there is a lot of controversy as to whether this actually did occur, the History Channel deserves much credit for mentioning this weird & amusing incident.
Just to add a little something more -the History Channel WILL deliver programming that the Xians enjoy & find supportive. It’s been said that the U.S. is about the most heavily Xian of all the developed nations, having perhaps about 90% of our moronic population who believe in “god’s” existance. In contrast, the U.K was named (somewhere) as having about 25% of its population who responded to a poll, who AGREED that religions are the major cause of most of the problems in the world today. So the History Channel will NOT be able to state anything that the Xians would feel are outright “heresy” – or are blatantly atheistic. It *apparently* is forced to provide programming that agrees with the weird mythological views of the superstitious herd.
If you throw out all historical records which claim a mythological component, you throw out a lot of history.
Just because Constantine claimed to see an “XP” in the sky doesn’t mean that there was no “battle of Milvan Bridge.”
I watched the show on the history channel. I thought it was interesting.
I don’t think that it legitimizes the bible story of the exodus. It did help prove that bible stories are sometimes based on actual events that the xian leaders twisted for their purpose of converting nonbelievers.
Some points made in the show were…
-The time period for the bible story was off by several centuries.
-The Jews were actually a group of people known as the Hyksos and they weren’t slaves, but they did leave the area.
-Rameses wasn’t the pharoah at the time.
-Every plague was explained scientifically, not religiously. Everything that “God” reined upon Egypt was actually aftereffects of a volcanic eruption.
-The Red Sea parting was probably caused by water being pulled out of the area by a tsunami somewhere else…also, the Hebrew was translated wrong..it wasn’t the Red Sea, it was the Reed Sea….which could be any number of marshy areas in Egypt.
This show was enough to help my 9 year old stepson (who has religion forced upon him by his mother) to say he believes in the scientific explanation of the plagues the show offered more than the story in the bible about “god” causing the plagues.
Panda- very interesting facts about the program. I saw an advertisement for it, and heard it was from Cameron so I was interested- I’m a big fan of Titanic…
But, I missed the show….
Titanic, by the way, is an excellent example of writing a fictional story around a historic event.
The sinking, of course, did happen- but the Jack/Rose romance thing is pure fiction….
Maybe it’s just me… but hasn’t the History Channel been showing a whole lot of religious-themed programming all summer ?
The did a few nights on pirates when the Pirates of the Carribean sequel came out.
But otherwise, since around the time The Da Vinci Code was released History has been doing a lot of stuff centered around religion.
Maybe it’s just me- but it seems every time I surf onto the channel, someone is seated infront of a stained glass window, talking about Jeeezus !
While the History channel does do a lot of religious-based shows, I watch them when I can because they aren’t trying to persuade someone to be religious. They interview people on all sides of the story and I’ve caught at least one show a while back where they discussed how the religious leaders changed their holy book to get people to do what they wanted.
As for the Da Vinci Code–I’ve never read the book, but from what I’ve been told, it’s a piece of fiction that xians have taken out of context. It would be interesting if Jesus had been a real man with a wife—what a blow to the xian faith.
Has anyone ever watched “30 Days?” A good for hardcore xians to watch is the one where the xian dude had to spend a month with a muslim family and particiapte in their religios practices….