Comments on: 5 children dead at church outing http://atheists.org/blog/2006/07/10/5_children_dead_at_church_outing A Blog of Atheist Thought Mon, 22 Mar 2010 11:58:14 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: spanders http://atheists.org/blog/2006/07/10/5_children_dead_at_church_outing/comment-page-1#comment-40364 spanders Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-40364 I'm going to out on a limb here and suggest that this post feels like it's only here because it's christian kids. In other words, it feels like if they weren't christian, they wouldn't be dead. It feels a little creepy in this context. Other than it being a church event, this could be any group of people getting together, so there's not, for me, much to discuss other than a group of people were lax in watching all their kids, which could happen to anyone. Discussing church and state, policies, direct influences of the church or legal procedings seems interesting. This just seems a little more random. Just my two cents for what it's worth. I’m going to out on a limb here and suggest that this post feels like it’s only here because it’s christian kids. In other words, it feels like if they weren’t christian, they wouldn’t be dead. It feels a little creepy in this context. Other than it being a church event, this could be any group of people getting together, so there’s not, for me, much to discuss other than a group of people were lax in watching all their kids, which could happen to anyone. Discussing church and state, policies, direct influences of the church or legal procedings seems interesting. This just seems a little more random. Just my two cents for what it’s worth.

]]> By: Smartypants http://atheists.org/blog/2006/07/10/5_children_dead_at_church_outing/comment-page-1#comment-40365 Smartypants Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-40365 <br /> It is always horrible to hear that someone may have died trying to save others (the article seemed to speculate that this may have been the case). <br /> <br /> The pastor's implication that the tragedy may have been deserved, or at least more understandable, had it been kids drinking or getting stoned was a bit creepy. Even in the middle of such a tragedy the moralizing just won't stop. It is always horrible to hear that someone may have died trying to save others (the article seemed to speculate that this may have been the case).

The pastor’s implication that the tragedy may have been deserved, or at least more understandable, had it been kids drinking or getting stoned was a bit creepy. Even in the middle of such a tragedy the moralizing just won’t stop.

]]> By: spanders http://atheists.org/blog/2006/07/10/5_children_dead_at_church_outing/comment-page-1#comment-40368 spanders Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-40368 hmmm... my interpretation of that was that he was saying there wasn't any glaring irresponsibility such as substance abuse that could have caused this. I guess it's different ways of understand what's being said. I didn't see it as moralizing. hmmm… my interpretation of that was that he was saying there wasn’t any glaring irresponsibility such as substance abuse that could have caused this. I guess it’s different ways of understand what’s being said. I didn’t see it as moralizing.

]]> By: Bones http://atheists.org/blog/2006/07/10/5_children_dead_at_church_outing/comment-page-1#comment-40369 Bones Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-40369 I guess I'd take issue if they start thanking god for the life of the one child who survived. If they do that, they must also attribute the deaths of the other 5 to that same god.<br /> <br /> Mostly, I just feel sorry for the entire group, church group or any other group.<br /> <br /> Negligence is negligence, no matter how you look at it, but accidents happen too, and they happen anytime, anywhere to anybody. God does not prevent accidents!<br /> <br /> <br /> I guess I’d take issue if they start thanking god for the life of the one child who survived. If they do that, they must also attribute the deaths of the other 5 to that same god.

Mostly, I just feel sorry for the entire group, church group or any other group.

Negligence is negligence, no matter how you look at it, but accidents happen too, and they happen anytime, anywhere to anybody. God does not prevent accidents!

]]> By: Smartypants http://atheists.org/blog/2006/07/10/5_children_dead_at_church_outing/comment-page-1#comment-40374 Smartypants Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-40374 <br /> spanders,<br /> <br /> I guess you can read it that way too (maybe I took it the wrong way), but I would note that his two examples of potential irresponsibility did involve "sinful" conduct rather than plain 'ol not paying attention or lack of supervision, etc.<br /> <br /> I guess it kind of reminded me of the comments on the news when there is a sururban crime. Some idiot always says something to the effect that the crime was unexpected because we live in a nice suburban community, as opposed to the big evil city.<br /> <br /> The pastor's comment sounded like that to me. i.e., We are nice people, so this should not have happened. <br /> <br /> Or I could just be thinking about it too much. spanders,

I guess you can read it that way too (maybe I took it the wrong way), but I would note that his two examples of potential irresponsibility did involve “sinful” conduct rather than plain ‘ol not paying attention or lack of supervision, etc.

I guess it kind of reminded me of the comments on the news when there is a sururban crime. Some idiot always says something to the effect that the crime was unexpected because we live in a nice suburban community, as opposed to the big evil city.

The pastor’s comment sounded like that to me. i.e., We are nice people, so this should not have happened.

Or I could just be thinking about it too much.

]]> By: reluctantatheist http://atheists.org/blog/2006/07/10/5_children_dead_at_church_outing/comment-page-1#comment-40377 reluctantatheist Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-40377 It's a tragedy, no matter how 1 looks at it.<br /> I found it odd, that the kids knew how to swim, & I thought undertows were restricted to oceanic currents.<br /> It can happen to anyone, is the point. Religious or no. It’s a tragedy, no matter how 1 looks at it.
I found it odd, that the kids knew how to swim, & I thought undertows were restricted to oceanic currents.
It can happen to anyone, is the point. Religious or no.

]]> By: spanders http://atheists.org/blog/2006/07/10/5_children_dead_at_church_outing/comment-page-1#comment-40380 spanders Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-40380 smartypants,<br /> I was recently talking with a friend who is getting divorced. I remember him saying, "if I was abusive, irresponsible, not supportive, etc. I would be able to understand a little better, but I wasn't any of those things". From knowing this guy, I know he's a stand up guy and I was shocked he was getting a divorce. Without discussing the what ifs in this case of divorce (no one knows what happens behind closed doors), I think it illustrates these little contracts that we come up with ourselves to understand life. When something happens that's outside of that contract, we're really surprised: "I work really hard and I'm on time every day, what do you mean I'm getting laid off? It's not like I'm a slacker." (that's actually my quote 4 years ago - I started my own business, which I still run). I think that's how I understand some of what is said. <br /> <br /> I know for sure I'm thinking about it too much. Seems to be my downfall. I prefer to discuss with people who think too much rather than not enough :-). smartypants,
I was recently talking with a friend who is getting divorced. I remember him saying, “if I was abusive, irresponsible, not supportive, etc. I would be able to understand a little better, but I wasn’t any of those things”. From knowing this guy, I know he’s a stand up guy and I was shocked he was getting a divorce. Without discussing the what ifs in this case of divorce (no one knows what happens behind closed doors), I think it illustrates these little contracts that we come up with ourselves to understand life. When something happens that’s outside of that contract, we’re really surprised: “I work really hard and I’m on time every day, what do you mean I’m getting laid off? It’s not like I’m a slacker.” (that’s actually my quote 4 years ago – I started my own business, which I still run). I think that’s how I understand some of what is said.

I know for sure I’m thinking about it too much. Seems to be my downfall. I prefer to discuss with people who think too much rather than not enough :-) .

]]> By: DVanWechel http://atheists.org/blog/2006/07/10/5_children_dead_at_church_outing/comment-page-1#comment-40386 DVanWechel Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-40386 "It was just depressing," Panus said. "It was horrible. You have a church group out there for a good reason, a good cause. No one is out there drinking or getting stoned, and a tragedy can happen just like that. It's kids and it's tragic."<br /> <br /> I agree smartypants, I think the implication is that it shouldn't happen to good, church-going folk. Or possibly, the Pastor believes this kind of thing would likely only happen to people who are impaired by alcohol or pot?<br /> <br /> What an incredible tragedy.<br /> <br /> RA, I think you may have been thinking of rip currents only occurring in the ocean? “It was just depressing,” Panus said. “It was horrible. You have a church group out there for a good reason, a good cause. No one is out there drinking or getting stoned, and a tragedy can happen just like that. It’s kids and it’s tragic.”

I agree smartypants, I think the implication is that it shouldn’t happen to good, church-going folk. Or possibly, the Pastor believes this kind of thing would likely only happen to people who are impaired by alcohol or pot?

What an incredible tragedy.

RA, I think you may have been thinking of rip currents only occurring in the ocean?

]]> By: karen http://atheists.org/blog/2006/07/10/5_children_dead_at_church_outing/comment-page-1#comment-40387 karen Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-40387 This is a great tragedy. <br /> These were children, trying to save each other. <br /> Where were the responsible adults? <br /> They weren't drinking or getting stoned.<br /> Neither were they supervising their children, or aware of water safety provisions.<br /> All the more tragic because it might have been preventable. This is a great tragedy.
These were children, trying to save each other.
Where were the responsible adults?
They weren’t drinking or getting stoned.
Neither were they supervising their children, or aware of water safety provisions.
All the more tragic because it might have been preventable.

]]> By: DrkPh03n1x http://atheists.org/blog/2006/07/10/5_children_dead_at_church_outing/comment-page-1#comment-40388 DrkPh03n1x Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-40388 I think the point is that if this outing had been with any non-religious organization, the parents of the dead children would be going crazy looking right and left for someone to sue. I don't think that will happen here, and it's a shame... especially when there appears to be such obvious negligence on the part of the "St. Louis Dream Center." I think the point is that if this outing had been with any non-religious organization, the parents of the dead children would be going crazy looking right and left for someone to sue. I don’t think that will happen here, and it’s a shame… especially when there appears to be such obvious negligence on the part of the “St. Louis Dream Center.”

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