http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/smalko2.htmFor those of you who think there are truly two sides to every argument, and for those who want to know about a different kind of hero, read this. This is the full story of a family persecuted by illegal, immoral Christians who want to run this country. If we don’t fight, it may happen to you.
Oklahomophobigodistan?
The only thing more these folks could have endured is night riders and lynchings.
I’ll bet, if the jury had been polled, it was split and not unanimous. They just could not agree unanimously to convict and wanted to go home, so just called it aquittal so the could do so.
OK: Who still believes atheists should not arm themselves for self defense? Even if it was while retreating to another state or country for political and religous asylum?
If, after reading this story, you still think the religous fundies are gonna play fair and by the rules you are naive at best. I’ll bet when the judge went into his chambers he was consulting with other fundie judges to find a way to void the jury verdict.
Armed, organized and unflinching is the only way to preserve your rights.
Two out of three is a losing hand.
I had some friends driven out of Mississippi a couple of years ago just like this. There’s no doubt in my mind that they would have suffered just as badly had they stayed to fight. It’s a mistake to think this is just an isolated incidence. It could happen to any of us under the right circumstances.
You guys are right. If we sit idly by or think the courts will continue to protect us, we will end up the persecuted.
(I know, I hate that word, too)
How long until the fundies replace this judge with one of their “activists”? How many stories do we have to read that atheists are the most mistrusted and reviled people on the planet? How long until we all end up in jail or “indoctrination camps”?
Unflinching and organized, yes. Reluctantly, I have to admit we may have to arm ourselves. I hope we could find a place where we all could live peacefully while the godnuts here and in the Middle East wage their jihads.
I would add, we need our own land to defend. I know America ain’t it, at least not any longer…
As I see it, we have to be far more vocal.
No more suffering in silence.
The largest problem we have is 1 of image.
Note that when a celebrity is religious, the media mentions it. Madonna is a cabalist (misspelling intentional), Spears was recently plastered all over some tabloid about some religious advisor.
But when Lance Armstrong is blasting at us over the telly, any mention he’s an atheist? Most xtians are unaware that Schulz was a secular humanist (& when confronted w/it, deny it outright).
Face it folks: we’re branded as NHI (no humans involved). & when we ARE mentioned, it’s ad hominem central.
We need to reach out & TOUCH some of these people (not the squalid, nor the violent, way).
I know it’s easy for me to say: I can drive around w/a Darwin fish on my car, & no 1 says boo.
Too many of us are faceless: too many of us portrayed as the vaudevillian Simon Legree, plotting the downfall of morality.
But TW’s right: we suffer from a distinct lack of organization.
We need more Godless marches. We need more protests. We also need to contribute to the respective communities we live in, all the while making it clear we are ATHEISTS.
In the meantime, we all need to train ourselves in self-defense. I practice 6 days a week, 1 1/2 sessions.
Because I’m a minority. & 1 of these days, some 1′s going to take a swing at me when they find out.
I guarantee a rude surprise on that occasion.
So I’m gonna co-opt a motto:
Say it loud. Say it proud.
& don’t back down.
The religious are social darwinists: they can smell fear.
Now that is a bone chilling account. Seriously though are we living in the 21st century? I hope the civil case goes well, and as for that 1st lawyer he should be disbarred.
RA:
Fine and good for those that can, but not everyone can, for many reasons.
A firearm makes a 90 pound woman the equal of a 250 pound male. No amount of physical defense training can do that. Once an assailant is close enough to lay hands on the victim, it is over.
a firearm also makes a lone minority, (racial, religous, whatever), the equal of a lynch mob, at least long enough to get away. But only if you know how to use it, and are willing to. Which does mean some training, but you need far less than that needed for hand-to-hand defense.
In this country the fanatics are either religous rightwingnuts seeking legislate their myth-religion into everyones lives, or solc!al!st totalitarians seeking to legislate their political religion into everyones lives.
Both are dangerous, but the right thinks the left is disarmed. And they are right more often than not since the left has largely brainwashed itself into thinking that guns are bad and posses somesort of inherrant evil aura or spirit, outside of government hands that hold badges. (dunno why a govt paycheck imparts gun responsibility that a private paycheck doesn’t).
Guns in the hands of private citizens are humanities technological equivelent of a procupines quils, until we come up with something better.
Guns in the hands of governemnt are tools of oppression when unchecked by the populace. Especially a government based on a religious belief, whether that is a supernatural or political religion. Look around the world for that evidence.
To face up to armed religous right fanatics, you must be armed as well. 99% of the time, just possesing arms is enough. It is that last 1% when they are really needed.
From now on the expression should be the Bastard Bible Belt.
tomwright
The Smallkowskis(Praise be upon them all) have gone broke defending themselves against trumped up assault and battery charges stemming from an argument over prayer before school games, and you think firearms are the answer?
I understand that those who would have us bend to their will are, by and large, armed. How does escalating arms help? The idea of every Tom, Dick and Mary walking around with a weapon for self-defence is appalling and frightening.
What we need is organization and publicity, like RA said. We atheists need to be seen as human beings, regular joes and janes who aren’t threats to anyone. Making ourselves into the new standing militia won’t get that picture across.
Guns represent a balance of power. The people should not be denied the same firepower as their government. It’s why we have the second amendment. Luckily, as a civilized nation, we have laws and courts, but who is there to protect us at 3 AM? Especially of the law and courts themselves are xian?
a sobering tale and the best current example of why there must be separation of church and state.
the christian right cannot be trusted to uphold the constitution if they ever get complete power. they are nutjobs guided by the supreme fairy nutjob.
as far as what to do. all i can say is this. in my life i have had to take 3 major stands on what was right (non-religious incidents). in each case myself and my family suffered the most when compared to the guilty parties even though i ultimately prevailed. i’d call all three pyrrhic victories.
right now i enjoy unprecedented respect and esteem in my professional career and i know of only one non-believer out of numerous colleagues. If i were to openly flaunt my lack of belief, i would likely lose most everything i have accomplished. if i, or anyone of us, lose our means it diminishes our value to the cause.
it would seem to be more beneficial to work toward helping elect candidates that are not of the christain right persuasion. ABAR (anybody but a republican)should be our battle cry in the next election and let’s unseat these “dark age” religious barbarians.
TW:
Well, no, I don’t agree w/that at all. But in lieu of 1-2 decades of training, it’s not a bad point.
I was reading the Smallkowski account on God4suckers.net.
When the principle was going to expel the daughter, daddy Smalldowski beat the everlivin’ crap out of him. I believe he left a bootprint on his forehead.
A gun is a great idea for the torch & pitchfork set at 3 AM, but it hardly would’ve helped in that scenario. Smallkowski mentioned that some of the criminals had badges.
Well, I’m a leftie, but I know how to use 1. Used to be a fair shot, meself. Probably not anymore. I also live in an area where arms are heavily regulated. For good reason. Oakland & SF have a high % of drug-related gun homicides.
I object to the things mostly because:
A. Most people aren’t responsible enough to own 1, &
B. It makes people lazy.
But you’re right in some points. It would dissuade idiots, such as the ones who throw bricks thru the window of a car bearing the Darwin fish. Or that prof who got jumped over his views on creationism.
We should not need the damned things. But alas, we do. We’ve not evolved past them quite yet.
tomwright,
That’s not too shabby, but I think I would change that last d to a t. “Oklahomophobigotistan” There, now that’s better. Of course, I neither condone nor encourage name-calling.
Wow…..almost completely persecuted for not following silly superstitious ritual…..well….at least they wouldn’t have been burned at the stake….progress!
some good points you guys have made how about a two pronged approach firearms for self defense and politics for offense.but keep it legal.accept this war on us will go on long after we are dead.
The Smalkowskis are a great example of courage and determination. We can learn a lot from their example. They have my thanks and love for fighting to keep children from being forced to pray in schools.
I am going to make a contribution to American Atheists in their honor.
Hey All Off Topic,
I’ve been a subscriber to Sirius Sat Radio since Howard Stern began broadcasting on it……If you can get past the crudeness….you will find an honest, entertaining, insightful observation of everyday life……No More Bullshit…….you can even hear the show through the Internet now…….it is for adults only….it is where the rubber meets the road reality….it is very entertaining….check it out
piece
Well I donated $100 but there was no place to add a comment to say in honor of the Smalkowskis so I’m saying it here.
Thanks
That something like this could happen in America in the year 2006 is so amazingly insane that I’m still trying to figure out if this could be a joke. I know it is not but I want and need to believe that this is make believe. I have lived as an outsider in the rural South for more of life (rural Appalachia and now small college town in NC) than I have lived outside of the South and have never had anything remotley like this happen to me in spite of my openess with being gay and an atheist. Can this really happen in the USA? I am just absolutely flabbergasted and thankful that at least NC ain’t OK (or TX).
Alex.
*****OFF TOPIC*****
To Scobysnx and ForensicAtheist
I posted a response to you guys over on the “NJ Shuts Down” thread.
Doesn’t look like anyone has posted there for the past 24 hours, so wanted to give you a heads up.
Is there a way to donate to the family to offset their expense? Through AA? David?
This is as shocking as the homophobia smalltown gays have endured forever.
We all know most government decisions are irrational… the reason for that, is childhood brainwashing. The efort to convince the brain that there are supernatural things; there’s a superman in the sky; god is watching you masturbate and knows your every thought… destroys a person’s ability to think rationally.
Next time you’re talking to someone, mention the latest idiot political or judicial decision that everyone agrees is bad, and point out, quietly, that it is almost certainly this problem with rationality and religion, that is the cause of the poor decision.
Slowly the idea will spread.There are many more unbelievers out there than you realise — they are simply too frightened to admit it.
Remember the old xtian war slogan,
“Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.”
Also, Bob Dylan’s “With God on Our Side” is pertinent.
“Oh my name it is nothin’
My age it means less
The country I come from
Is called the Midwest
I’s taught and brought up there
The laws to abide
And that land that I live in
Has God on its side.
Oh the history books tell it
They tell it so well
The cavalries charged
The Indians fell
The cavalries charged
The Indians died
Oh the country was young
With God on its side.
Oh the Spanish-American
War had its day
And the Civil War too
Was soon laid away
And the names of the heroes
I’s made to memorize
With guns in their hands
And God on their side.
Oh the First World War, boys
It closed out its fate
The reason for fighting
I never got straight
But I learned to accept it
Accept it with pride
For you don’t count the dead
When God’s on your side.
When the Second World War
Came to an end
We forgave the Germans
And we were friends
Though they murdered six million
In the ovens they fried
The Germans now too
Have God on their side.
I’ve learned to hate Russians
All through my whole life
If another war starts
It’s them we must fight
To hate them and fear them
To run and to hide
And accept it all bravely
With God on my side.
But now we got weapons
Of the chemical dust
If fire them we’re forced to
Then fire them we must
One push of the button
And a shot the world wide
And you never ask questions
When God’s on your side.
In a many dark hour
I’ve been thinkin’ about this
That Jesus Christ
Was betrayed by a kiss
But I can’t think for you
You’ll have to decide
Whether Judas Iscariot
Had God on his side.
So now as I’m leavin’
I’m weary as Hell
The confusion I’m feelin’
Ain’t no tongue can tell
The words fill my head
And fall to the floor
If God’s on our side
He’ll stop the next war.”
I for 1 am seriously interested in phreddy’s take on all this. This really casts his religion in a horrible light.
I find the silence eery….
“There are many more unbelievers out there than you realise — they are simply too frightened to admit it.”
I agree with ybgrip. I wish I could shout my atheism from the mountain tops, but I can’t. I wouldn’t lose any friends. Most bikers aren’t too concerned about what god thinks. However, my job is different. I serve children in conservative xian homes. 3/4 of my caseload would be lost. I can care less about their parent’s delusions. If I can’t get through the door, I can’t help the children. Atheism has set me free, but my #1 priority is to help children with communication delays learn to speak. I actually bow my head in prayer if the family requests. No matter if I’m pondering whether I have enough taco meat for supper while they pray. The joy of hearing a previously silent 2 year old proclaim “amen!” is adequate compensation for me “selling out”.
I hope this doesn’t shine a negative light on me in this community (blog). Does anybody else have to sell out? Does it make you feel guilty?
Nope, I’m lucky that my work environment is a sensible place. We don’t let personal beliefs get in the way of work or friendships for that matter.
Comment from: reluctantatheist
RA,
I’m searching for a piece that’s a little bit more objective. I mean really. The “Democraticunderground.com” as a source? Have you ever read some of the whacky comments made there? Sheesh…
Dave has used some pretty far left sites to stir up the troops. Let’s not forget the one about Rove…
As soon as I find an article that doesn’t spew so much hatred instead of facts I’ll be glad to respond.
And a word to the wise…as I always say, follow the money. This piece was written to do nothing but play on peoples emotions. Hardly any facts at all. And from the responses from some it sure seems people would be more then willing to part with their hard earned cash to reward Mr Smalkowski.
This piece reminds me of some of those Far Left movies about Iraq that some use as their own personal gospel…
phreed, I’ve seen several articles on this story, and it seems that the “hate” is just there. Most of it coming from your “fellow” christians. How in the hell do they justify this? Is it anything goes as long as you save a soul?
Why is it so difficult for christians to live and let live. I really don’t care about what they believe, and have no interest in their mythical practices.
I often wonder how a christian would react if our pledge said “under NO GOD”.
but, hey, we’re the ones being unreasonable, right?
It’s good to see that Justice is still blind. If this were truly a Christian nation, she wouldn’t be.
I am amazed how negatively most people here have viewed this story. Didn’t he win?
Rather than proof of how bad Okie or the bible belt is, isn’t this proof of the contrary? It seems that the judge and jury were reasonable.
As an attorney, I am impressed that the (seemingly) correct decision was made the first time. There are plenty of other cases that take multiple appeals to arrive at justice and even then it may not happen.
I also agree with phreedm that I would rather read a more objective fact-heavy account of this case. The same critical mind that rejects religion should reject one-sided accounts.
Interesting….and WOW.
I’ve been searching all morning. It seems the mainstream press (newpaper, TV, internet) doesn’t want to cover this story!! I guess because it shows the persecution BY christians instead of against them. (history repeats itself?)
It’s telling how little information can be found outside of the atheist community!