Rumor has it that the new Superman movie has christian overtones. They said the same thing about Narnia (I thought any religious linkage was weak). Here’s a thread about rumors deliberate covert religious inclusion in movies, and whether it’s a bad thing. After all, gods make for great stories and give convenient answers to plot holes.
im not impatient it doesnt take long to type info you already know
debating whether jesus existed is like debating if muhumamd existed, and my point with alexander was if people can say that jesus did not exist becsause they cannot find writings during his existence than the same can be said for thousands of historical figures. if the rule applies to one it must apply to all.
same goes for pilot. if the NT is not a historical source then why flavius. seriously. why are any of the roman writings. this makes no sense.
sirboxer:
Hey, waitaminnit, I’m not going to do all the heavy lifting here.
If you don’t know what they are, why mention them?
The Q writings are the alleged pre-existing copies that the apostles allegedly cribbed off of it.
Wouldja stop saying that?
I am doing it from memory.
We’ll resume tomorrow, if you please.
But go to my website (it’s listed right below my handle), & do some reading, please. It’ll answer a large % of the questions you have.
I guarantee it. (No, not all of them, I ain’t that damned good).
the q writings come from similarities that have been found in the NTs. because the NTs contradict each other at time scholars believe they must have used an earlier source because of the similarities.
the contradictions mean they did not copy from one another or else no contradicions would exist
sirboxer:
No, it’s not just writings, it’s evidence. Proof. We know Muhammed existed. Likewise, Alex. Both enemies & friends wrote about them, there’s piles of evidence.
I’m going to bed.
Lata.
no can;t do it tomorrow. do you see how quick i respond to your answers and questions. i know what the gospels of q are. i have the on my desk. all 3 or 4 pages.
the earliest writings about alex were made a half century after his death. what part of that do you not understand]
if you found earlier writings send that are from his time, send it to the museum for a reward.
your knowledge is weak and i am not going to continue this later. i know you want to read and read and read and get back at me but seeing this brief dialouge it evident if i do research as well this will be even more lopsided. in closing to this dominaton on my behalf, there is a reason why the vast majority of scholars believe jesus existed.
later loser,
i schooled you now, heres another instance
tommorow everyone will write about my spelling, gramar and evrything else. who cares im tired of schooling. hey reluctant thanks for the debate i wont be here for a while.
hey alot of the gods you say jesus was copied from have very little similarities. the only similarity is a virgin birth which we know didnt happen sorry guys and the belief that he is here to save us from evil. those are all of them.. the similarites you talk about are interpretations of what peoples interpretaton of things they saw. these interpretatoin are far fetched since earlier gods like mithra as mentioned earlier did not have any religious writings. and many of the similarities to christianity, ie. the resrurection are interpretations of a cave painting. theres no writing.
later now im out.
mithra was hunter not a carpenter when is an axe used to reference a carpenter. what does the sacrafice of a bull have to with a human sacrifice. this is far fetched. this like saying live spelled backwards is evil and god spelled backwards is dog. that means the people who invented our english language were pagan and tried to tell us something.
weak argument. thanks for the laugh. if your old like you say you are atheist im sorry, but you should do some more research. i am not trying to disrespect you in any way.
ill keep it simple. jesus was a jew. jews were the most detested people at that time. they were oppressed by every power at that time. why would a jew who was hated by all in power and many of his fello jews become a god for billions?? he did something for people like the romans, the assyrians, the greeks, the egyptians, and other power houses at that time to either accept him as a god or prophet.
trust me no known descendant of muhamed exists. he had a bunch of wives in kids. people will start to question his existence to. watch you’ll see. i know the blue turban means you are a descendant from muh.. but how do we know that’s true. late.r
RA,
Does your head feel like it has been pounding against a brick wall? I can’t think of a way to get through to sb, he’s living in a mental bubble. As far as I can tell he seems to think that it’s a sign of weakness to reference anything that does not exist in his head. For me, this speaks volumes of a poor education and a highly restricted Weltanschauung.
HZ:
Sometimes.
I don’t think he understands that a debate isn’t a boxing match. It’s not how fast the debate goes (it’s not speed-dating). & of course, he asks for a website, & then laughs when he gets 1.
I dunno. I thought he was going to listen this time.
sirboxer:
No it isn’t.
I’m sorry, but go read the material on my website. It predates this discussion by about a year.
You have been a tad politer.
You’re welcome, but we weren’t done. I just didn’t want to stay up all night at your behest.
Morning guys, sorry I dropped off the discussion. It seemed to have gotten pretty good. Anyway, to Sirboxer: About our previous argument, you say you use the intolerance of homosexuals to make a point to, as you say, the many intolerant homosexuals on this post. However, by what it sounds like from the other commenters here, you are simply calling people gay.
p.s. I could not care less whether or not you have attended a gay rights rally, its an unimportant comment that makes your response seem reactionary and unthoughtout.
Hey, look at that!
Its 6/26/06!
reluctant once you answer all of those questions we can continue the debate.
The reason why scholars do not disprove Jeusus is because if they did the rules used to disprove Jesus would have to be applied to thousands of historical figures. Our history would be a huge lie. Everything in our past would be disputed because all of our infomation is second hand from people we will never know or have historical evidence about. You write about the Roman writers at the time. Some of these writers are not mentioned by anyone else. THe proof they existed is the writings they wrote. Even if they all mentioned each other, people can say they all lied about one another the way they say the apostiles did in the new testament. could all of history be lie, maybe. I don’t know. What I do know is the theory used to disprove Jesus is recognized by a small few because of its implications on the authencity of histroy in general. Hense the Pilot example. Pilot is only mentioned in the New Testament. Pilot existed. Why is Flavius writings more credible than those in the NT??????
There is no answer because we don’t know. Flavius as well as otheres could have been invented as well.
Im done gone for a few days maybe weeks I will be. I need more difficult conversation than this. The conersatoin is lacking. Hey thanks for the biology debate guy. I was really going to hit you hard with the stuff by you’ll only respond now that you know I won’t be here.
It has been fun/.
sirboxer:
That’s changing rapidly.
The bible itself is being disproven regularly. On almost all of its points.
I have no problem applying any of the rules to 1000′s of historical figures.
I discovered recently, for instance, that most of American history is a lie.
Go read ‘Lies My Teacher Told Me.’
Back on topic:
Fact of the matter is, it’s those same rules that don’t seem to apply to JC. No external, multiple attestations. A few brief references in a few paragraphs scattered amid the 1st CE.
I’d advise you do some research on historiagraphy. Then apply the rules to the gospels. You’re in for a shock, I guarantee you.
He’s a recognized scholar. We got 4 guys no 1 ever heard of (or heard about since), only mentioned in the bible, 2 fisherman & a tax collector (& the bible states the apostles were unlearned men). Flauvius? By the rules of history, we know he existed, we even know that he was/is a respectable source (even if old E of C took liberties w/the source).
Oh, & you’re incorrect about Pilate:
http://www.answers.com/topic/pontius-pilate
“The famous Pilate Inscription found at Caesarea Palaestina refers to Pilate as prefect, while Tacitus speaks of him as procurator of the province.”
Also:
“Most of the information about Pilate comes from the accounts of the first century Jewish historian Josephus in Antiquities of the Jews and The Wars of the Jews.”
Stick it.
Lame-o: it seems that I schooled you.
Nice try, no cigar.
Please, please no more. You can’t argue with a troll. His arguments run very much like an ID’ist. Anyone think that he is Kent Hovind looking for something to do after his last venture was shutdown?
Most of the information about Pilate comes from the accounts of the first century Jewish historian Josephus in Antiquities of the Jews and The Wars of the Jews.”
NO it doesn’t. the only refernce made to pilate is in the NT. You stick it. your infomration is wrong.
the apostles were most likely illiterate that’s why the gospels are written with according to in front of them.
///
I’d advise you do some research on historiagraphy. Then apply the rules to the gospels. You’re in for a shock, I guarantee you.///
i have i actually own the lost gospel and historical evidence of jesus christ. both books are atheist and both books are very week.
have you read the book the lies the internet told me. pilate was only referred to in the NT. You mean historiography. you spelled it wrong. jack ass. flavius did not mention some roman writers during his time and some did not mention him., there was about a dozen back then if that. 5 writers mention jesus including flavius. that’s more than flavius.
read my ohter posts for more info. get an education .
Heathen go for it. I await for it. So here it goes. Fuck you and Dave. Both of you are uneducated and full of shit. None of you will ever be wealthy or powerful. You will continue to be the same pussies and resentful bitches you have been your entire life. Your intelligence and courage come from behind a computer. You have neither. You will never be able to battle me mentally of physically and you resent me for this. You are envious because of your own inaccuracies as men. Almost everyone here suffers from the same lack of self worth. Most the women on here, if not all, are either ugly, overweight, or both and share the same inferioriy complex you do. I don’t care if your feelings were hurt as a kid or continue to be hurt as adults. As far as I and the majority of the people in this world who humiliate and make you feel less then human are concerned, your opinion doesn’t matter. It never will matter because you have no power or nothing to appealing make anyone want to join a group of losers like yourselves.
This comment is not directed towards atheists at all. This comment is directed to the biased people on this site who perpetuate ignorance because of their closed mindedness.
People like yourself make atheists look stupid because you argue absurdities. How seriously can I or anyone with intelligence take many of the people in here when they agree with wrong information you and others like you post?
You have no credibility, and you are an embarrassment to atheists and their cause.
Ohhh, reluctant 1 boxhead 1,000,000
andradol:
Note that not once did I mention grammar, typos, or spelling.
Just in case anyone was really wondering. Hitler’s biographer John Toland had this to say.
Hitler regarded himself as a Catholic until he died. “I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so,” he told Gerhard Engel, one of his generals, in 1941.
There was really no reason for Hitler to doubt his good standing as a Catholic. The Catholic press in Germany was eager to curry his favor, and the princes of the Catholic Church never asked for his excommunication. Religions encourage their followers to hold authority in unquestioning respect; this is what makes devout religionists such wonderful dupes for dictators.
When Hitler narrowly escaped assassination in Munich in November, 1939, he gave the credit to providence. “Now I am completely content,” he exclaimed. “The fact that I left the Burgerbraukeller earlier than usual is a corroboration of Providence’s intention to let me reach my goal.” Catholic newspapers throughout the Reich echoed this, declaring that it was a miraculous working of providence that had protected their Fuhrer. One cardinal, Michael Faulhaber, sent a telegram instructing that a Te Deum be sung in the cathedral of Munich, “to thank Divine Providence in the name of the archdiocese for the Fuhrer’s fortunate escape.” The Pope also sent his special personal congratulations!
Later the Pope was to publicly describe Hitler’s opposition to Russia as a “highminded gallantry in defense of the foundations of Christian culture.” Several German bishops openly supported Hitler’s invasion of Russia, calling it a “European crusade.” One bishop exhorted all Catholics to fight for “a victory that will allow Europe to breathe freely again and will promise all nations a new future.”
Biographer John Toland wrote of Hitler’s religion: “Still a member in good standing of the Church of Rome despite detestation of its hierarchy, he carried within him its teaching that the Jew was the killer of god. The extermination, therefore, could be done without a twinge of conscience since he was merely acting as the avenging hand of god — so long as it was done impersonally, without cruelty. Himmler was pleased to murder with mercy. He ordered technical experts to devise gas chambers which would eliminate masses of Jews efficiently and ‘humanely,’ then crowded the victims into boxcars and sent them east to stay in ghettos until the killing centers in Poland were completed.”