American Atheists Action AlertMay 21, 2005 OFFICIALS NEED TO HEAR FROM US NOW — NO ” MIRACLE DEBRIS” CHRISTIAN CROSS AT WORLD TRADE CENTER MEMORIAL!http://www.atheists.org/action/alert-21-may-2006.html The group in charge of developing a memorial for victims of the September 11 attacks on the World Trade Center has announced it will permanently display a “miracle debris” cross formed by two pieces of steel left standing after the collapse of the twin towers.In making the announcement last week, WTC Memorial Foundation President and CEO Gretchen Dykstra disingenuously avoided the issue of violating the separation of government and religion by saying that it is a “delicate issue” (Associate Press) and that viewers of the display should draw their own conclusions about whether there is religious significance.The scheme to display the Christian cross has been endorsed by the Lower Manhattan Clergy Council and the New York Disaster Interfaith Services. Dykstra stated in a letter that the display “tells the story of 9/11″ and is “not an object of veneration.”This double-talk, however, conveniently ignores the history of the 20-foot cross which has been the focal point of religious services and pilgrimages (link: http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/islam19.htm)
SUPPORT SCOUTING FOR ALL RALLY &PROTEST THIS WEDNESDAY, MAY 24WASHINGTON, D.C.Demos, Vigil slated during BSA National Meet to protestScouting discrimination against Atheist and Gay Youth SCOUTING FOR ALL is urging all Atheists, Freethinkers, Humanists and other nonbelievers to support its protest slated for this Wednesday, May 24, 2006 in our nation’s capital. These events will take place during the National Conference of the Boy Scouts, with protests at the Marriott Wardman Park Hotel, and a candlelight vigil beginning at Dupont Circle. See the SFA press release below WHAT: Scouting for All protests and Candlelight Vigil during BSA National Conference WHEN: This Wednesday, May 24, 2006 WHERE: Washington, DC. MORE INFO: See SFA press release below or visit http://www.scoutingforall.org/ Press Releasefrom Scouting for AllFor Immediate Release and DistributionMay 17, 2006For further Information ContactScott Cozza, Pres. Scouting for AllTel. 707-778-0564 Email: Cozzahived@aol.comwww.scoutingforall.org Boy Scouts of America’s National Leadership, In Irving, Texas Acts Un-American Rally / Protest At The Boy Scouts of America’s National Conference In Washington DC, May 24thScouting for All Asks The Boy Scouts of America To STOP Hurting Children By Rejecting Gay and Atheist Youth, At The BSA’s National Conference, Washington DC May 24th
The extreme religious right like phreedumb regularly attribute motives to people they disagree with. Very often, as in phreedumb’s case, they attribute the motive of “hatred”, even though that has nothing whosoever to do with the argument.
It is one of their methods for avoiding discussion. How do they know what another’s “motive” is? In any event, a supposed “motive” does not change the substance of an argument. Either the argument is valid or it is not.
It doesn’t matter if the person presenting it is dispassionate or is “motivated” by some psychological pulsion. Only the facts and logic of the argument are relevant.
But I have yet to see a bible-thumper who understands anything about logical analysis.
Phreed-hem,
Imagine if the KKK came to town for a rally. If you were to embrace them, you would be embracing intolerance. If you oppose them, then you are, by default, embracing tolerance.
Ren speaks truly, phreetard. The BSA are simply a few rungs below the KKK and the Nazis on the ladder of intolerance.
Of course, people like you ARE the ladder, so I guess you wouldn’t understand.
“Ideological conflict menaces U.S. ability to fight terrorism”
I prefer:
“Ideological conflict causes U.S. to fight terrorism”
As to the article’s bullshit support of illegal wiretapping I must simply say:
Ren,
I am a bit late to this thread (as usual), but I wanted to join Karen in encouraging you to write, whether to the locations mentioned at the start of the thread, your representatives, newspapers, whatever. I think you do often have good insights and state them well. For example:
I thought especially well stated. Keep it up.
I also have a bad habit of ineffective ranting when something arouses my emotions. One of the tricks I have found to dealing with this is to think about the person(s) I am communicating with and the desired effect rather than about myself. This increases the chances that my thoughts/feelings will actually get communicated rather than simply expressed. Not that I always manage this, but practice makes perfect.
Comment from: bernarda [Member]
hatred? “phreedumb”?
Funny…this post has got to be a joke…ok, I’ve got my composure back.
As I’ve stated often on this board, we always see our own weaknesses in others…
OK…lets make this simple.
What’s the difference between members of American Atheists blocking or denying membership to a Pat Roberson type…
and
the Boy Scouts not allowing a gay Man to hold a position of authority?
BOTH receive benifits from taxpayers.
(American Atheists is a nonprofit 501c3 Educational organization)
TomSD,
Thank you for the kind words. I have had Karen on my mind all day as I have written smart-assed remarks to Phreed-hem, only to rewrite and edit heavily before sending.
The problem I have noticed is that: when something irritates me to the point I am inspired to write a letter, it also paralyzes me with rage to the point I can’t make a coherent sentence.
Hanging out here is better than therapy, IMO.
Having said all that:
Phreed-hem, when I look at you, figuratively speaking of course, I see that I am a blathering (insert demeaning adjective here).
Wait a minute here. Has everyone on this board been duped?
Scouting for All has been infiltrated. I don’t believe anyone on this board can support them when they use a “catholic priest” to ask for support…
http://www.scoutingforall.org/acall.shtml
I’m sure glad I caught that one. Whew. Imagine these kinds of people asking for YOUR support. After all. All catholic priests are…now what did Dave call them?…oh yeah…”Child Rapists”.
Phreed-hem
You’re still a member, so that’s one straw man down.
Both are nonprofit organizations and as such do not have to pay taxes, but one receives millions of dollars of “in-kind” donations from the federal government each year and the other doesn’t. I’ll leave it up to you to figure out which is which.
Comment from: Ren [Member]
This really is inspiring. Why do you let anyone offend you? Especially to the point of rage. This has been my theme all along. We don’t live in a perfect world. There is no way any of us can live our lives without doing something that others will disagree with.
Being offended is a usless response.
So why let it happen?
Life is way to short…
Phreed-hem
Like they say; If the shoe fits…
Last I heard, there were over 10,000 individuals that have come forward to claim molestation and over 1,400 catholic priests that have been charged. As far as I am concerned, that’s not an abberation. That’s an occupation.
These weren’t shady individuals in the pews. These bastards were running the show like La Cosa Nostra. You can’t look at the numbers and attribute it to a few bad apples.
Catholic priests are baby fuckers, and I blame it on celibacy. If these guys could get their rocks off occasionally with an adult, they wouldn’t have to resort to secretly destroying the lives of children. Baby fuckers, I tell you.
Phreedm,
Thanks. I didn’t know you cared.
I’m going to assume that you have missed some of my earliest posts, so I will bring you up to date on my situation as briefly as possible.
I don’t LET things upset me. I happen to be a combat veteran that suffers (suffers is such a tame word) from PTSD.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PTSD
I saw combat in the Gulf during the first Gulf War. I spent a total of 12.5 yrs in the military with a number of other non-combat (peace-keeping) missions in Haiti and the Balkans. I lived in Europe for most of the ’90s.
I have been and seen and done many things that most people who live to be twice my age will never do. That doesn’t make me special, or better than anyone else. What it does, I hope, is explain why I do the things I do sometimes and why I act the way I do all the time. It’s not because I like it. I take over 20 pills every day, and I’m not yet 40.
I am not proud of being disabled, but I’m not ashamed of it either. I didn’t ask to be like this. These are the cards I have been dealt.
I hope this clarifies things.
Ren
You are so correct about the word suffers,/i>. As another PTSD-er,
I take my hat off to you. Those without the problem have no idea the amount of mental and emotional gymnastics we go through to deal with trigger points.
I am DID as well, which only adds to the fun.
Thank you for your service to our country. I am sorry for the toll it took on you. And I think I do understand some of your struggle to cope, even though my PTSD isn’t service related.
Hang in there, friend!
while I cant speak for Alex but think about it phreedm hes a gay man in the us.
as a bi man in this country Ive been subjected to the same hate from the xtian right and to tell you the truth from some members of the gay community
Comment from: udonman
Of this I am truely sorry…this is one area of life that I agree the Christian community needs to improve their views about. Not to change their beliefs but how they relate to the gay community. Many fail miserably. There is way to much hate from all sides of society…
In my own walk I had a woderful experience about 10 years that not only was one of those mountain top experiences but also opened my eyes to the gay community. I’d tell the story here but I’m sure I’d get slammed…
Phreedumb:
“This really is inspiring. Why do you let anyone offend you? Especially to the point of rage. This has been my theme all along. We don’t live in a perfect world. There is no way any of us can live our lives without doing something that others will disagree with.
Being offended is a usless response.
So why let it happen?”
BUT earlier phreedumb replied to one of my posts with this:
“hatred? “phreedumb”?
Funny…this post has got to be a joke…ok, I’ve got my composure back.”
Not only is phreedumb IQ-challenged, he has short-term memory problems.
phreedm I hope you wouldnt get slammed for showing that you are a human being that is open to the gay community.
but if you dont want to share here feel free to email me.
phreedm,
If you email udonman please email me also. My email is: anthony1324576890@yahoo.com. If not then that is fine but I would like to know your story, I won’t judge you. Simply because I and everyone else here knows what it is like to be judged.
The monument at the World Trade Center is on private space to my understanding, so whoever owns it has the right to do with it as he pleases. Should taxpayer money go to support this, probably not, but it’s like a lot of things one sees in Europe. I’m reminded of the procession in Brugge with the saint’s blood that coagulates on the day of the annual pilgrimmage. It’s phony as all getout but it brings in the tourists and sells a lot of moules and frites belges. Put this ‘cross’ in the same category. As far as the Boy Scouts are concerned, earlier writers have this correct when they point out that to the extent the Boy Scouts are a private organization, they have the right to establish whatever membership standards they may deem appropriate. Let them stop taking taxpayer funds and then they can make their own rules without my criticism.