And now it’s time for one of those posts that’s going to incite lots of responses. This should be fun. I understand that there are exceptions to the rules (that there are nonreligious people who oppose abortion, for example), but I really think I’m right here.South Dakota has outlawed abortion, in an attempt to overturn Roe V Wade at the national level. They may succeed. If they do, the pro-choice population will have no alternative but to try for a Constitutional Amendment.The problem I have with this whole thing is that most people have lost site of the real issue, the separation of church and state. The abortion issue is not about abortion, but rather about religious people forcing other people to obey the religious way of life. Gay rights, death with dignity, school prayer — all the same thing. Those who oppose all these issues are predominantly (exceptions noted) the same people, the same organizations, the same money. Most of the debates are not about the specific issues, but rather just cloaks around religious discussions.Their strength comes from our missing the point! When we fight these issues on an individual level, we are divided and therefore conquered! We should NOT be voting on abortion or gay rights — we should be voting ONLY on the issue of separation of church and state. When those in office agree that one religion should not rule the masses (like Iraq and Iran), these issues will go away by default.Our country is in imminent danger. We need to be united and vocal, and GOAL ORIENTED! Keep religion out of government and we keep freedom alive.
here’s the thing-
Sperm: not a human.
Egg: not a human.
Sperm meets Egg: human.
the equation isn’t a complicated one, and there is no argument that you can have to justify the taking of one persons life to benefit another’s. that’s just crappy behavior.
you may say, “a little girl was raped and shouldn’t have to bare a child she didn’t choose to have in the first place.” and i absolutely agree, but what is worse; one person having to raise another, or one person dying because of the inconvenient timing of their existence?
it isn’t about separation of church and state, the fact is that murder is murder; whether you can see the victim or not.
IMHO, it all comes down to living competitively or cooperatively. Those that would like to micromanage the world do so so that their version can ‘win’. Those that would like to ‘just get along’ tend toward cooperative behaviors. Religion is all about competition for scarce resources (you can’t have eternal life unless you pay my god’s price), whether they are imaginary or not is a different question.
As for abortion, propogation, etc; a cooperative society would let those who want to have children fill in the needs of the human race with their offspring, and let those who choose to be childless do other things to add Net Creativity to our future.
Paternalistic power mongers love people that try to compete with each other (Republican vs. Democrat, Jew vs. Christian, Muslim vs. Atheist, rich vs. poor, poor vs. poor) because it makes more opportunity to pit one against the other and make some kind of profit from it (selling extra guns, for example).
Evolution is a classic example of the type of misunderstanding about Comp vs. Coop.: A species survives if it cooperates with its environment and other species to provide a future usefulness over and above the amount of resources it consumes. The ’survival of the fittest’ means the species FITS the environment, not that it is stronger or faster or meaner than other species.
We have to find a way for people to learn this and whether or not they believe in Omnipotent Sky Buddies or UFOs, we all need to look for where we can apply usefulness with the least amount of resources. Getting pregnant and then having an abortion is a waste of resources. Having a baby that isn’t desired is also a waste of resources compared to having one that is needed to fulfill some unknown, but encouraged destiny. Diversity of genetics is important, so competition that commits genocide is potentially species suicide. Conformity is potential species suicide. Overpopulation is potential species suicide.
And I’ve ranted enough….Good luck, buy local, buy less, make things yourself. Cooperate. It’s time to lead and share, not to bleed and scare.
Jas0nest,
you’re a vegitarian right?
G.I.R.7
I am god
stilhorn
It looks like the loony toons came home to roost at the end of this dead thread. Why are you disturbing their straight-jacketed slumber?
Abortion is only ok when: the mother is too young, the baby is in a bad condition, the mother was raped, or the mother is not strong enough to carry the baby.
As for me and my house we will serve the Lord (Joshua 24:15).
Christian37,
You are attempting to force others to live by the beliefs of your religion. It is your religion if you don’t want to have an abortion don’t have one. It is your delusion it is your life. The public square is not your house.
You’re killing a child.
It has a beating heart.
I never said the public square was my house. That’s a Bible verse that describes everything that I personally believe in.
When abortion is used as birth control, it’s sick. I’m not perfect. Christians are not perfect at all. But I say abortion used as birth control is horrible not just as a christian, but as a human being.
As for me and my house we will serve the Lord (Joshua 24:15).
A child can survive without getting what it needs to survive directly from someone else’s body.
The heart is a muscle. The function of the heart is to pump blood through the body. Historically, the heart was thought to perform some things that in reality are performed by the brain. That is why animals which of course includes humans still have emotional responses when their hearts are removed.
The fact is the christian is the one that is trying to deny the utility of much better methods of birth control. If the christian was more accepting of other birth control methods fewer abortions would occur. Sterilization should be encouraged for males and females that cause pregnancies that result in several medically induced abortions.
If the christian keeps encouraging the production of large families the result will eventually require birth control instead of using birth control optionally.
Keep your Lord delusion in your own house.
rna2dna,
Keep your “there is no God” bull crap in your house then.
B/c it’s a load of junk. Oh my goodness we can’t see God so that must mean he’s fake!
Wow. I’m a christian and i’ll pray for y’all but you’re about as dumb as a rock.
But you know what, it’s ok. Believe what you want. If you want to live your life and believe that we have no purpose and nothing happens when we die, fine. However, that is your curse not mine.
You keep telling yourself that God is a delusion. As a christian, I have to pray you will change your mind. However, as a human being, I don’t think I’ll be seeing you in Heaven. I just hope it’s really worth it to you. B/c I would really hate to see the price you pay.
And you are killing a child when you abort it. Bottom line, you are. It is murder.
Don’t try and tell me different.
The “public square” may not be my house. However the world, the universe, and everything else out there is God’s house. Not yours.
As for me and my house we will serve the Lord (Joshua 24:15).
I was going to post a reply, but you say it best yourself.
[Don't try and tell me different.]
How can one reason with an attitude like that?
Hiya Knowledge, whatcha doin’ way back here?
I see this is a crazy person thread.
I got involved in one of these before….
See you back in the present Knowledge.
[sigh]
Just trying to convince myself that the commercial is right:
“People are smart.”
It ain’t workin’.
Besides, I appreciate ethical dilemas more than political agendas. Phreedm’s hit-and-run tactics are just tiresome. I thought reading some older threads would help clear my mind.
Knowledge,
If smart people were the majority where would lie the certainty? It is because intelligence is rare that we shine at all.
Luckily because of the “big giant brain”, aka the internet, we can see each other’s light and wave hello.
I see you and that’s enough.
Interesting comments.
Oh yeah South Dakota? Pro-lifers insist that abortion is murder but consider this scenario;
Person A has never been a serious alcoholic but is dying from kidney failure and needs a kidney donation from a close relative. The close relatives sympathize but either have health issues of their own or simply could not handle giving away one of their kidnies. Person A dies.
Why hasn’t the federal gov. steped in and demanded that the close relatives give a kidney to Person A? Human lives are lost each year because people refuse to donate their kidnies! Where is the national outrage?
Abortion should be frowned upon but not outlawed. I see no difference between Person A and a fetus.
i honestly believe that abortion is not the problem of the government. if a christian woman believes abortion is murder or wrong, then she won’t abort. if another woman wants to abort, let her. like dave said, the government’s involvement in abortion is just another way to impose its christian affiliation onto the country.
another disgusting thing is all the billboards i see of babies saying “my heart is beating” and crap like that. why don’t they have pro-abortion billboards?
The exact view of god is from the Indian culture. They believes that the god is everywhere that is in the sand to all lives in the earth. Each and every creature and others are the part of the god. Comment on this.
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peter
South Dakota Treatment Centers
God is the principal or sole deity in religions and other belief systems that worship one deity.
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peter
South Dakota Treatment Centers
peter1900
I am confused.
I presume you mean American Indian.
To which god are you referring?
And what is the point you are trying to make?
Its the churches responsibility to stop those who follow them from getting abortions, not everyone. Their entering the government to try and get them to pick up and stop what they’ve failed to stop for people WHO follow them.
catholic religious statues
The smartest thing to do is to do your analyzing wholly.