Comments on: Please don’t pray for me http://atheists.org/blog/2006/02/25/please_don_t_pray_for_me A Blog of Atheist Thought Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:53:51 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: stevestory http://atheists.org/blog/2006/02/25/please_don_t_pray_for_me/comment-page-1#comment-28432 stevestory Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-28432 I reject that. I hope religious people become irreligious people, and just as there's nothing intolerant about my desire for them to change their minds, there's nothing intolerant about their desire for me to change my mind. I reject that. I hope religious people become irreligious people, and just as there’s nothing intolerant about my desire for them to change their minds, there’s nothing intolerant about their desire for me to change my mind.

]]> By: Esperdome http://atheists.org/blog/2006/02/25/please_don_t_pray_for_me/comment-page-1#comment-28435 Esperdome Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-28435 Dave, you can look at it alot of ways, but what comes to mind to me is either: if they're messing with you they must be leaving some poor sucker alone, or, since it can't help it can't hurt. Dave, you can look at it alot of ways, but what comes to mind to me is either: if they’re messing with you they must be leaving some poor sucker alone, or, since it can’t help it can’t hurt.

]]> By: Esperdome http://atheists.org/blog/2006/02/25/please_don_t_pray_for_me/comment-page-1#comment-28436 Esperdome Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-28436 I meant to say "some other poor sucker alone". Sorry about that. I meant to say “some other poor sucker alone”. Sorry about that.

]]> By: wdo http://atheists.org/blog/2006/02/25/please_don_t_pray_for_me/comment-page-1#comment-28438 wdo Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-28438 <blockquote>But those who pray for me to change need to recognize that it is an act of intolerance -- and I am intolerant of that.</blockquote><br /> Well, perhaps non-injurious acts of intolerance aren't unethical under their particular moral code. If so, and if counter-intolerance isn't immoral under your personal moral code, I have good news: neither of you are doing anything "wrong". <br /> <br /> Huge relief.

But those who pray for me to change need to recognize that it is an act of intolerance — and I am intolerant of that.

Well, perhaps non-injurious acts of intolerance aren’t unethical under their particular moral code. If so, and if counter-intolerance isn’t immoral under your personal moral code, I have good news: neither of you are doing anything “wrong”.

Huge relief.

]]> By: podry http://atheists.org/blog/2006/02/25/please_don_t_pray_for_me/comment-page-1#comment-28439 podry Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-28439 people are strange when you are a stranger...<br /> <br /> if only they knew that praying does not help us...it is a waste of time...<br /> <br /> oh well, atleast we have something to talk about tonight.<br /> <br /> by the way, my washington representative has just sponsored a bill to allow the indiana congress to continue religious prayer before each meeting of congress...<br /> <br /> this completely goes against a federal court ruling outlawing the practice...talk about activists!<br /> <br /> please, write to mr. mike sodrel, rep. from ninth district in indiana and free his mind!<br /> people are strange when you are a stranger…

if only they knew that praying does not help us…it is a waste of time…

oh well, atleast we have something to talk about tonight.

by the way, my washington representative has just sponsored a bill to allow the indiana congress to continue religious prayer before each meeting of congress…

this completely goes against a federal court ruling outlawing the practice…talk about activists!

please, write to mr. mike sodrel, rep. from ninth district in indiana and free his mind!

]]> By: Mesoforte http://atheists.org/blog/2006/02/25/please_don_t_pray_for_me/comment-page-1#comment-28441 Mesoforte Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-28441 I usually ask who they are praying to. Whenever they answer (God more than often not), I usually say, "Sorry, <i>I</i> can't force people to change." <small>(yep, I'm god.)</small><br /> <br /> Don't worry Dave, we <b>won't</b> be praying for you. I usually ask who they are praying to. Whenever they answer (God more than often not), I usually say, “Sorry, I can’t force people to change.” (yep, I’m god.)

Don’t worry Dave, we won’t be praying for you.

]]> By: Susan http://atheists.org/blog/2006/02/25/please_don_t_pray_for_me/comment-page-1#comment-28442 Susan Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-28442 My problem is from the opposite viewpoint. I never know what to say when someone asks me pointblank to pray for them. Usually they are going through some intense personal distress, an illness or death in their family, and if I respond that I don't pray, it sounds like I don't give a rat's ass about their problems. I usually give them some words of encouragement about being strong, but inevitably they come back with the prayer issue.<br /> <br /> How do others handle this? My problem is from the opposite viewpoint. I never know what to say when someone asks me pointblank to pray for them. Usually they are going through some intense personal distress, an illness or death in their family, and if I respond that I don’t pray, it sounds like I don’t give a rat’s ass about their problems. I usually give them some words of encouragement about being strong, but inevitably they come back with the prayer issue.

How do others handle this?

]]> By: rainbows4dinosaurs http://atheists.org/blog/2006/02/25/please_don_t_pray_for_me/comment-page-1#comment-28446 rainbows4dinosaurs Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-28446 Every good thought should be followed by an equally good action, otherwise the original thought is wasted. So if a person uses prayer, meditation, or whatever as a way to psych himself out - to get over life's metaphorical humps - then perhaps it is a good thing (aside from the fact that it often involves the belief in utter nonsense.) <br /> <br /> The problem arises when people start to believe that prayer is an action in and of itself. Take it to the Lord in prayer, and everything will be alright - nothing else required.<br /> <br /> This is one the main issues I have with my father and his side of the family. They want to attribute every positive aspect of my life to their own personal 'acts' of prayer. My health and the health of my family, the healthy relationship between my wife and I, and any success that I may have in my career are somehow the direct result of quite, bedtime utterances made by a handful of people 3000 miles away. It has nothing at all to do with the fact that my wife and I <i>work</i> take good care of ourselves and the children, or that we actively <i>work</i> to keep our marriage healthy, or that I <i>work</i> my fucking ass off to be the best interactive designer I can be. No. It's all because of a nightly magical phone call to God. (And of course we all know that if Portland were to be nuked tomorrow they would, undoubtedly after many buckets of tears, have to chock it up as being just another part of "God's plan.")<br /> <br /> Man, that really pisses me off, not only because it is so insulting to all my personal efforts, but because the true reason for them to be making such statements could not be more transparent. It's a witnessing tactic - they want to be able to cite my personal successes as some sort of miraculous proof for their personal beliefs. Kinda sick, when you think about it. Kinda sad too. <br /> <br /> Back when I was still somewhat deistic, I used to really like that old southern saying "God helps those who help themselves." Seems pretty darn pragmatic, doesn't it? But then you get to thinking about it and you realize how that little bit of sophist incite could be skewed towards selfish gain. And of course it says nothing of the sort of prayers that are aimed at the ones we love. So, for my theistic friends, I've come up with an edited version that I believe to be a thousand times more helpful and effective:<br /> "God helps those who help each other." <br /> <br /> Now get up off of your goddamn knees and get to work.<br /> <br /> Every good thought should be followed by an equally good action, otherwise the original thought is wasted. So if a person uses prayer, meditation, or whatever as a way to psych himself out – to get over life’s metaphorical humps – then perhaps it is a good thing (aside from the fact that it often involves the belief in utter nonsense.)

The problem arises when people start to believe that prayer is an action in and of itself. Take it to the Lord in prayer, and everything will be alright – nothing else required.

This is one the main issues I have with my father and his side of the family. They want to attribute every positive aspect of my life to their own personal ‘acts’ of prayer. My health and the health of my family, the healthy relationship between my wife and I, and any success that I may have in my career are somehow the direct result of quite, bedtime utterances made by a handful of people 3000 miles away. It has nothing at all to do with the fact that my wife and I work take good care of ourselves and the children, or that we actively work to keep our marriage healthy, or that I work my fucking ass off to be the best interactive designer I can be. No. It’s all because of a nightly magical phone call to God. (And of course we all know that if Portland were to be nuked tomorrow they would, undoubtedly after many buckets of tears, have to chock it up as being just another part of “God’s plan.”)

Man, that really pisses me off, not only because it is so insulting to all my personal efforts, but because the true reason for them to be making such statements could not be more transparent. It’s a witnessing tactic – they want to be able to cite my personal successes as some sort of miraculous proof for their personal beliefs. Kinda sick, when you think about it. Kinda sad too.

Back when I was still somewhat deistic, I used to really like that old southern saying “God helps those who help themselves.” Seems pretty darn pragmatic, doesn’t it? But then you get to thinking about it and you realize how that little bit of sophist incite could be skewed towards selfish gain. And of course it says nothing of the sort of prayers that are aimed at the ones we love. So, for my theistic friends, I’ve come up with an edited version that I believe to be a thousand times more helpful and effective:
“God helps those who help each other.”

Now get up off of your goddamn knees and get to work.

]]> By: reluctantatheist http://atheists.org/blog/2006/02/25/please_don_t_pray_for_me/comment-page-1#comment-28449 reluctantatheist Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-28449 r4d:<br /> Kudos on the promo(?)/contract.<br /> Well, you're Dad's worried about you. Doesn't mean he's right to be stealing your thunder. Or disrespecting your stance. But parents are like that. <br /> I was having a big argument w/my mom, about the whole 'prayer' debacle, & what does me dear old mam say to me?<br /> I'm telling her the prayer thing isn't just about me, we're seeing all kinds of this nonsense in the real world.<br /> My dear old septagenarian ma says to me, "What makes you think you can make a difference?"<br /> & the last time (many moons ago), I interviewed for an IT job, didn't get it, what does she tell me?<br /> "The dream is over."<br /> I asked her, "How can you tell your child something like that?"<br /> I heard somewhere, that your family can push your buttons easy. They installed them.<br /> So, yeah, I share your pain, man. <br /> I think everyone's family is a little dysfunctional. To put it mildly. <br /> Oh, yeah, another factoid, BTW:<br /> "God helps those who help themselves." - that's actually Aesop's Fables, about Hercules. Plural on god. r4d:
Kudos on the promo(?)/contract.
Well, you’re Dad’s worried about you. Doesn’t mean he’s right to be stealing your thunder. Or disrespecting your stance. But parents are like that.
I was having a big argument w/my mom, about the whole ‘prayer’ debacle, & what does me dear old mam say to me?
I’m telling her the prayer thing isn’t just about me, we’re seeing all kinds of this nonsense in the real world.
My dear old septagenarian ma says to me, “What makes you think you can make a difference?”
& the last time (many moons ago), I interviewed for an IT job, didn’t get it, what does she tell me?
“The dream is over.”
I asked her, “How can you tell your child something like that?”
I heard somewhere, that your family can push your buttons easy. They installed them.
So, yeah, I share your pain, man.
I think everyone’s family is a little dysfunctional. To put it mildly.
Oh, yeah, another factoid, BTW:
“God helps those who help themselves.” – that’s actually Aesop’s Fables, about Hercules. Plural on god.

]]> By: reluctantatheist http://atheists.org/blog/2006/02/25/please_don_t_pray_for_me/comment-page-1#comment-28450 reluctantatheist Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-28450 wdo:<br /> <blockquote> If so, and if counter-intolerance isn't immoral under your personal moral code, I have good news: neither of you are doing anything "wrong".</blockquote><br /> Yet, by the very nature of being human, simply the knowledge of knowing someone's doing something for you or about impacts you. <br /> It may be minimal, or maximal (depending on how much you allow something like that to effect you). But it still has some effect. wdo:

If so, and if counter-intolerance isn’t immoral under your personal moral code, I have good news: neither of you are doing anything “wrong”.

Yet, by the very nature of being human, simply the knowledge of knowing someone’s doing something for you or about impacts you.
It may be minimal, or maximal (depending on how much you allow something like that to effect you). But it still has some effect.

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