Comments on: About the Moral Compass… http://atheists.org/blog/2006/02/18/about_the_moral_compass A Blog of Atheist Thought Sat, 21 Nov 2009 05:39:58 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: alexgator1 http://atheists.org/blog/2006/02/18/about_the_moral_compass/comment-page-1#comment-27756 alexgator1 Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-27756 My morals are based on the principle of enlightened self interest which is shown by most other social animals. If you don't follow the moral norms expected then you are shunned and face hardships and death. Most people and other primates don't hit each other unprovoked because we learn quickly that we will suffer a consequence if we do. Same for murder, stealing, etc- No god is required to know that these things are wrong.<br /> Alex.<br /> My morals are based on the principle of enlightened self interest which is shown by most other social animals. If you don’t follow the moral norms expected then you are shunned and face hardships and death. Most people and other primates don’t hit each other unprovoked because we learn quickly that we will suffer a consequence if we do. Same for murder, stealing, etc- No god is required to know that these things are wrong.
Alex.

]]> By: ebonyfax http://atheists.org/blog/2006/02/18/about_the_moral_compass/comment-page-1#comment-27757 ebonyfax Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-27757 If there is no God, then the morality derived from the Bible has no more substance than the morality derived from any other source. If there is no God, then the morality derived from the Bible has no more substance than the morality derived from any other source.

]]> By: ebonyfax http://atheists.org/blog/2006/02/18/about_the_moral_compass/comment-page-1#comment-27758 ebonyfax Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-27758 There are two kinds of sin. <br /> <br /> The first is "sins of the flesh." This includes cussing, drinking alcohol and lying. <br /> <br /> The second is "sins of the spirit." This includes attitude, arrogance and lack of compassion.<br /> <br /> I know few fundamentalists who compromise the first, and few who don't compromise the second. <br /> <br /> There are two kinds of sin.

The first is “sins of the flesh.” This includes cussing, drinking alcohol and lying.

The second is “sins of the spirit.” This includes attitude, arrogance and lack of compassion.

I know few fundamentalists who compromise the first, and few who don’t compromise the second.

]]> By: spartacus007 http://atheists.org/blog/2006/02/18/about_the_moral_compass/comment-page-1#comment-27759 spartacus007 Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-27759 That's a very good point. Lev 20:13 seems like its commanding believers to kill the homosexuals. If your belief that homosexuality is wrong comes from this verse and you're not in prison, you're a hypocrite. That’s a very good point. Lev 20:13 seems like its commanding believers to kill the homosexuals. If your belief that homosexuality is wrong comes from this verse and you’re not in prison, you’re a hypocrite.

]]> By: Rosemary http://atheists.org/blog/2006/02/18/about_the_moral_compass/comment-page-1#comment-27760 Rosemary Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-27760 Seeker:<br /> <br /> My son and I owned a bar for a while. I can attest to plenty of fundamentalists who drank alcohol. I often drove a few of them home at closing time. Seeker:

My son and I owned a bar for a while. I can attest to plenty of fundamentalists who drank alcohol. I often drove a few of them home at closing time.

]]> By: natasha http://atheists.org/blog/2006/02/18/about_the_moral_compass/comment-page-1#comment-27761 natasha Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-27761 My supervisor at work is catholic lunatic. She has a gay, very out, son, 18. I worry for him. He wants to please his mother so much, you can see the yearning in his eyes, but she does not hide her displeasure with his gayness. Her catholic arbitrary morals are damaging his ability to find his own morality within himself. My supervisor at work is catholic lunatic. She has a gay, very out, son, 18. I worry for him. He wants to please his mother so much, you can see the yearning in his eyes, but she does not hide her displeasure with his gayness. Her catholic arbitrary morals are damaging his ability to find his own morality within himself.

]]> By: rainbows4dinosaurs http://atheists.org/blog/2006/02/18/about_the_moral_compass/comment-page-1#comment-27762 rainbows4dinosaurs Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-27762 The real problem is that many fundamentalist <b>do</b> take the second part of Lev 20:13 very seriously, and they are really only hampered by our secular laws in carrying out such biblical instructions. <br /> <br /> The real problem is that many fundamentalist do take the second part of Lev 20:13 very seriously, and they are really only hampered by our secular laws in carrying out such biblical instructions.

]]> By: Dagny2 http://atheists.org/blog/2006/02/18/about_the_moral_compass/comment-page-1#comment-27764 Dagny2 Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-27764 I think there is an objective standard for morality, that morality is indeed black and white. After all, gray can't exist without the black and white that its made up of. That objective standard is reason, logic. Either an action is logical or it is not; either it is moral, or it is not. I have lived my life by this philosophy, and it has served me well. Lying, cheating, stealing, etc. are not merely immoral through "common sense," (i.e., "everybody knows that obviously, these things are wrong") but are also illogical. With cheating, for example, you could not only suffer some punishment/negative consequences for it, but in the long run, you're actually hurting yourself, acting against your own self-preservation. I remember when I was younger, having adults tell me that when I was older, I would come to realize that there are really many shades of gray. They presented this as some sort of enlightened position, but I've since learned that rationally-based ethics, and admitting that morality is black and white, is the enlightened position, one that few people are able to see. My morals are chosen, in the sense that I chose to follow reason. <br /> <br /> As for the moral standards in the Bible, if any of them are correct (thou shalt not kill), it's just a coincidence. The authors of the Bible based some of the laws (certainly not all of them) on the common-sense standard, and happened to get some of it right. Ask any Xtian *why* a certain action is immoral, however, and you'll get "Because God said so" as the answer, not "because it's illogical." The moral laws in the Bible have an irrational basis, even if a few of them happen to be correct, so it shouldn't be used as anyone's moral compass. Rational ethics are possible. They are my chosen moral code. I think there is an objective standard for morality, that morality is indeed black and white. After all, gray can’t exist without the black and white that its made up of. That objective standard is reason, logic. Either an action is logical or it is not; either it is moral, or it is not. I have lived my life by this philosophy, and it has served me well. Lying, cheating, stealing, etc. are not merely immoral through “common sense,” (i.e., “everybody knows that obviously, these things are wrong”) but are also illogical. With cheating, for example, you could not only suffer some punishment/negative consequences for it, but in the long run, you’re actually hurting yourself, acting against your own self-preservation. I remember when I was younger, having adults tell me that when I was older, I would come to realize that there are really many shades of gray. They presented this as some sort of enlightened position, but I’ve since learned that rationally-based ethics, and admitting that morality is black and white, is the enlightened position, one that few people are able to see. My morals are chosen, in the sense that I chose to follow reason.

As for the moral standards in the Bible, if any of them are correct (thou shalt not kill), it’s just a coincidence. The authors of the Bible based some of the laws (certainly not all of them) on the common-sense standard, and happened to get some of it right. Ask any Xtian *why* a certain action is immoral, however, and you’ll get “Because God said so” as the answer, not “because it’s illogical.” The moral laws in the Bible have an irrational basis, even if a few of them happen to be correct, so it shouldn’t be used as anyone’s moral compass. Rational ethics are possible. They are my chosen moral code.

]]> By: wdo http://atheists.org/blog/2006/02/18/about_the_moral_compass/comment-page-1#comment-27765 wdo Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-27765 "Our detractors' flaw is in their premise -- they don't have one either. <br /> <br /> Sure we do. We contend that some things are wrong, independent of any social or political consensus (or personal opinion): an absolute moral law that posits an objective moral source. <br /> <br /> "They CHOOSE their own morality just as we all do."<br /> <br /> Agreed. And we each choose our respective morality on its merits, believing it to be better than any competing morality. <br /> <br /> "Objective moral laws are myths -- like the gods who make them."<br /> <br /> But I suspect that you think torturing children is....a bad idea.<br /> Maybe even wrong. For everyone. <br /> “Our detractors’ flaw is in their premise — they don’t have one either.

Sure we do. We contend that some things are wrong, independent of any social or political consensus (or personal opinion): an absolute moral law that posits an objective moral source.

“They CHOOSE their own morality just as we all do.”

Agreed. And we each choose our respective morality on its merits, believing it to be better than any competing morality.

“Objective moral laws are myths — like the gods who make them.”

But I suspect that you think torturing children is….a bad idea.
Maybe even wrong. For everyone.

]]> By: Deadly Doomham http://atheists.org/blog/2006/02/18/about_the_moral_compass/comment-page-1#comment-27766 Deadly Doomham Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 #comment-27766 Lying, cheating, and stealing aren't always immoral and illogical. There are many occasions which call for such activity.<br /> <br /> An example:<br /> You're a poor man on the street, starving to death. There's a rich grocer displaying fresh fruit, open for business. You take it, knowing you wouldn't have survived otherwise.<br /> <br /> Basic stuff. Lying, cheating, and stealing aren’t always immoral and illogical. There are many occasions which call for such activity.

An example:
You’re a poor man on the street, starving to death. There’s a rich grocer displaying fresh fruit, open for business. You take it, knowing you wouldn’t have survived otherwise.

Basic stuff.

]]>