Today I was listening to Danny Bonaduce on my Sirius radio and I was really enjoying the show. He has a quick wit and excellent timing, and I found myself laughing quite a few times.Then, out of the blue, he starts to bash Atheists! He stresses that it is absolutely true that there are no Atheists in foxholes or in holding pens (where he’s spent quite a bit of time), and said he’d be one of us if we weren’t so bitter. Gee Danny, maybe if certain people wouldn’t keep repeating the same old bigoted lies about us we’d be less bitter?
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(just musing here)
Maybe we should be simply known as true Humans, with no illusions of grandeur or self-pity. Humans putting use to the full potential of our incredibly powerful brains. Humans making our own morality and leading our own lives. Humans taking responsibility for our own failures and our own successes.
reluctant,
I’m gonna buy a video camera tomorrow and make my own documentary about the atheists in my area (they truly are the most amazing people up here). I’ll see what I can do in my community.
DD:
That’s a grand idea.
Don’t forget to feature yourself.
Maybe we all should do some taping, going to Atheist meetings, do a sort of pastiche of our ‘brethren’ (so to speak).
I wonder if David could collect the tapes from the respective members who participate, & maybe get the ball rolling?
Hmmm…maybe a set of questions, otherwise, might end up w/a truckload of tapes (DV or otherwise): who doesn’t like to go on at length about themselves?
Some sort of format would be a necessity, I think.
DD:
Too bad the phrase ’surrealist’ is already taken.
Not one democrat received money from Jack Abramoff nor did he direct money to democrats through third parties. Jack is a confessed felon and he is under scrutiny for bilking the indian tribes among other felonious charges. It is not illegal for the indian tribes to give money to politicians. Jack Abramoff was extorting corporations to direct money to republicans away from democrats. The repubs have all the power and therefore it was a pay to play system of bribery. the democrats have no power in Washington and therefore it would be useless to direct money to them they have nothing to give in exchange.
jim:
Guess again:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-
dyn/content/article/2005/06/02/AR2005060202158.html
Let’s not forget that, as humans, Repubs and Democs are equally fallible, corruptible, etc. The same goes for theists and atheists.
But hell, it’s fun to bash:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/02/03/rehab.telemarket.ap/index.html
Good to see that slavery is alive and well at church!
i don’t think bonaduce has ever been in a foxhole….if he had been in mine he would have met an “atheist in a foxhole”……’nam ‘68 usmc
When I lived near Chicago I used to listen to Danny on the radio. He’s a funny guy! He never said anything about atheists during the time that I listened to him (I would have remembered that.) He is fairly open-minded otherwise and I bet that given the opportunity, he would listen to what rational atheists have to say. Of course, I could be wrong. He did marry a strict Catholic.
As for the labels, I prefer atheist. As Brock2 mentioned, it ‘jolts’. I like that. The word itself does not mean anything negative – society has added that. When I see that jolt, it gives me the opportunity to discuss my lack of belief. Imagine how xians would react if you showed that same jolt when they mentioned their belief in Jesus. Try it sometime, it’s fun.
Just a personal view, but when atheists use the terms ‘freethinker’ or ’secular humanist’, they are trying to avoid the arguments. It’s more of a way of easing into a conversation without the xian hackles immediately being raised. This is fine, Keep doing it and getting more comfortable talking about (and defending) your views. Once you are more comfortable, you won’t have a problem using the term ‘atheist’.
Just my 2?.
502,
You’re probably right about my “squirm issue”. Although I’ve been an atheist for almost forty years, except for my husband and children I am completely surrounded by very zealous xians. And it’s not my nature to try deconverting anyone.
Phreedm:
I will. Where exactly are the democrats on that list?
http://www.newsmeat.com/washington_political_donations/Jack_Abramoff.php
Yeah, I wonder what they would have said about Ohio Republican Representative, John Bohner.
-J?r?me
So Indian tribes give money to Democrats as well as Rebuplicans. And? What does that have to do with Mr. Abramoff?
jcc:
Well, I’d like to see an objective laundry list of ALL who received anything from Abramoff.
& further, how many of them were unaware of the source of said money (Repubs & Demos).
I’m willing to bet $ that there were more R’s than D’s.
Not dead on target, but it does have some shick value.
For those of you who aren?t also members of FFRF (Freedom From Religion Foundation), here are some e-mails/letters that the Freedom From Religion Foundation received after some of its members appeared on some TV shows. I have had to use *’s in words to keep it clean, but the actual words were used in the e-mails. It’s interesting to see how religious people respond with Christian love and kindness
DNA
Just gotta love those tolerant Christians. Makes ME want to convert!
I feel the love!
I just finished watching “The god who wasn’t there”.
I have to say, it wasn’t all that I thought it might be. But I did get one very useful thing out if it, and I’d like to announce:
Apparently that is the one sin for which I cannot be forgiven. I plan to explain this to anyone who wants to pray for me – or save me. According to their own bible, I am beyond their help.
hehehe
HZ
Why thank you for the info.
Mind if I join you?
Been meaning to do this also, but keep forgetting:
Just for good measure.
KAren
Thank you and I sure missed you! I really missed the blog, and I thought about you all through the whole book. Every chapter of that book made me think…wow I know the guys at the no god blog would love this!
Hey Peach, I’m with you and karen. We have to change the way people think about atheists. Educate them!
I have seriously thought about making a documentory about women and religion and how it is oppressive to women and children. Much like the god movie. I got it and it was a very simple documentory(did I spell that right?).
SNTC
I looked up your book on Amazon. They only had 3 copies! B & N didn’t have any. The reviews were very good for it on Amazon, except one guy implied it was inreadable because it was too emotionally gut-wrenching. It sounds like a very good resource.
I like the documentary idea too. Hadn’t chimed in on that yet. Maybe Michael Moore would do one. Or maybe we don’t want to be thought of alongside Bowling for Columbine and Fahrenheit 911. I bet he’d do it well though.
Is the god movie you refer to the same one HZ is taling about? Did you guys rent it or buy it? I haven’t looked yet, but I’m sure my local store doesn’t have it and probably would refuse to get it for me. I’d like to see it, but meanwhile, I’ve denied the Holy Spirit, so I’m good to go!
That was my original take too, and my brother felt the same way also.
However, after watching it a couple of times and understanding that it wasn’t intended to cover all of the problems with Christianity – it was focussed primarily on Jesus possibly being a myth and not historical – I think it was pretty decent. Also, the DVD does have a lot of bonus features – that is, extended interviews with some of the people interviewed in the movie itself and with some other people, such as The Raving Atheist and Richard Dawkins. All in all, I think it was worth the price.
I wish I could have driven upstate to Huntsville to see the public screening, but that’s about a 6 – 8 hr. drive: it was easier – and maybe even cheaper – for me to buy the DVD.
And the good news for me is, it gave me an new idea for my most-recent letter to the editor: the comic book analogy.
But I am getting ahead of myself. Here.
Another local throwback to the Dark Ages ? a Christian ? showed his ignorance in our local paper today. I won?t quote the entire letter, just the part of interest.
I’m a jumpin on the band wagon.
brock2,
Yeh brother, speakin to the choir.
Danny Bonaduce, The guiding light of the Xian faith. Who gives a **** what he thinks. Lets not waste any more time on this a**hole.
DNAUnion:
Your letter reminded me of a voluminous discussion that I had at the Raving Atheist some time ago.
In re: the 2 different travelogues of JC:
So I went & looked it up.
Still available, under the topic ‘Is the Bible Historical’:
Seeing as Matthew was writing for the Jews, & Luke for the Gentiles, it is possible that the family could have done both.
I find it interesting, though, that John & Mark make no mention of either.
1 of the funnier moments of that discussion, as I recall, is that the ‘darkness that covered the land’ or the ‘earth’ (Luke and/or Matthew: I forget which goes where), where the theist I was talking to suggested it was a sandstorm.
Which I thought was quite amusing.
Helluva big sandstorm, ey?
karen:
Off-topic, did it again.
This time, a pretty young black woman was walking by me, asked me “Do you listen to Xtian music?”
I stopped, turned around, said, “No, I’m an atheist.” “Oh, well, thank you for your time.” She was pleasant about it.
What makes this particularly amusing, is this same young lady (over a year ago), stopped me (in another shopping center), & asked me that question before.
To which I replied, “No, I’m a Deist.”
(Yeah, had a brief Deist period, before becoming an atheist, STFU, brock2.)
Of course, I’ll have the same answer next year, that I had this 1.
Or I could just mess w/her, & say I’m wiccan.
If she ever remembers me.
Of course, I’d not do such a thing.
i also herby deny the holy spirit
wait does this mean i have to give up my scotch and my bourbon
DNA,
I rented the DVD from netflix. I will be ripping and burning it tomorrow
Really!
Who can be more bitter than a washed up b actor? A washed up b actor with nothing to say.
The bitter reality of being so well known but as a “Partridge”. Sheesh.
Why do these people even think that they have anything at all worth contributing.
brock2, Great minds . . .
Wrong again, scree’dim. All Atheism means is not believing in supernatural gods. Beyond that, atheists can have all the hope they strive to maintain in whatever they wish to work toward. It is the essence of responsibility to choose placing hope in whatever life matters one has. Placing it in snake oil mysticism means tossing all hope in the garbage can.
Again, what most people continually refuse doing is refuse the idea that meaning must come from religious con authority. Atheists must stop bringing themselves down by accepting the religious loon’s specious view on same atheists.
For example, to get moral support, should one rely on a sadistic cynic for advice? Of course not, no more than a Jew should go to a Jew-hating Nazi for a “positive” self-image.
If ever Atheists are to more postively affect the social conscience, they must stop being cynical, and express the strong positives of Atheism, such as self-reliance, responsbility, and the discovery of greater humane productive meaning. Strive to keep this up sure, but struggle more positive rationally optimistic.
The Holy Spirit isn’t worth my denial; there’s nothing to deny, no reality, no truth. To most people, “denial” means refusal to accept the truth. The Holy Spirit doesn’t exist to be denied.
Karen
DNA did a good job answering your question to me. Thanks dude! I bought the movie on line. It was a very simple documentary, but it gets the point across about all the lies he and the rest of us are told on a damn near daily basis about jesus. I thought it was really good. He had something to say and he said it, in the most simple staight to the point mannor. He did it so well, his christian high school princepal got mad and refused to finish the interview. lol
About the book SAHARASIA…yeah, it is very good and the research very though and scientifically presented. And yes very emotional. Who wouldnt be after realizing what humans have done to infants women and children? If you dont get emotional, then something is seriously wrong.
I just cant say enough about the book and it has really made me rethink a lot of my own views and things I thought were absolutely right about human history. IF you get the chance read it, you wont be disapointed.
Are you claiming the two gospel’s stories of Jesus’ birth can be harmonized? I think not.
1) Matthew has the family head south to Egypt after Jesus’ birth.
The magi from the east see the magical “Jesus was born here” star and follow it to the house where Jesus, Mary, and Joseph are. After worshipping Jesus some, the magi leave: that night, the holy family leaves Bethlehem and goes south to Egypt.
2) Luke has the family head north to Jerusalem and then farther north, back to Nazareth, after Jesus’ birth.
Jesus is circumcised on day 8 and then, as soon as the time of purification according to the Law of Moses was complete – that?s 40 days for a son – they leave Bethlehem and go north to Jerusalem. Then after completing everything required by the Law of the Lord in Jerusalem, then head off north again all the way back to Nazareth.
Those two stories produce a direct contradiction: a family cannot head BOTH south AND north at the same time.
Here are a couple of attempts to harmonize these two stories.
1) Trying to smash the two accounts together into the same overlapping time frame fails. Luke?s telling leaves no time for the family to flee to Egypt and await Herod?s death, then come back to Bethlehem and then Jerusalem to complete all the things needed to satisfy the Law of Moses and the Law of the Lord. And even if there was enough time ? which there isn?t ? trying to harmonize the two accounts this way would just lead to another contradiction, since Matthew?s story about the trek to Egypt says that on their return trip, the family avoided Judea, turning aside and going to Nazareth instead.
2) The only remotely feasible attempt to smash the two accounts together requires that they discuss different, non-overlapping periods of time. We have to take great liberty with our interpretation and our manipulation of gospel stories.
Apparently, as told by Luke, Jesus was born in Bethlehem and on day 40 the family left for Jerusalem, then after a short time there went back home to Nazareth … there was no miraculous star pointing out Jesus? birth; no magi came from the east to worship baby Jesus; and King Herod was not out to kill the young Christ. Luke does say that every year the family returned to Jerusalem for the Feast of the Passover. So we can get the family back to Jerusalem, for a brief period, after Jesus? birth: perhaps as much as a year later.
But then, to add in Matthew?s account, the family must have left Jerusalem and went back to Bethlehem: a trip that is not mentioned in either gospel: we have to simply assume for ourselves that this happened. In this rather forced scenario, only now, possibly a year after Jesus? birth, is a magical star heralding Jesus? past birth seen by the magi. Only now does the star mysteriously begin moving along the sky, directing the magi to the location of Jesus? past birth, which the family has apparently returned to (though not mentioned in the Bible). And only now does Herod converse with the magi and come to want to kill Jesus. And only now, after the magi leave, does the family flee to Egypt and await Herod’s death.
First of all, we have to ask ourselves, “If this is what actually happened, then why is Luke completely silent about these latter historically and spiritually important events?” After all, this is all Luke?s gospel says about the family making it back to Nazareth after Jesus? birth:
They returned to Nazareth and then it was not until Jesus was 12 years old that the next key event in his life ? according to Luke ? occurs. Where?s the mention of the magical “Jesus was born here” star? Where?s the mention of the magi from the east? Where?s the mention of the important trip down to Egypt, and the family living there until King Herod dies? Where?s the mention of King Herod?s having all boys under the age of 2 years old killed in Bethlehem and the surrounding area? All mysteriously missing. Luke has the family return home to Nazareth, then make the normal yearly trips to Jerusalem for the Feast of Passover, until Jesus is 12 years old. It?s an uneventful period for Jesus: which is quite inconsistent with Matthew?s version.
Second, this smashing of the two gospel accounts together in tandem would make Matthew?s version not a story of Jesus? birth, despite its being understood that way, but of later events in Jesus? young life (again, events not mentioned in Luke, who presents the same period of Jesus? life as quite uneventful: nothing worth noting).
Third, what of this mysterious “Jesus was born here” star? It apparently showed up at the time of Jesus’s birth: not afterward. But in the above scenario, it’s not until a year or so after Jesus’ birth that the magi show up. So did the star just hang out in the sky for a year or so waiting for the magi to finally notice it? Or did the magi notice it right away but not really care, for a year or so, and then finally decide to check it out?
I want you to provide a legitimate way to harmonize these two accounts.
DNAUnion:
No, I’m not going to.
Was having a bit of a natter, is all. Am an atheist, like yourself.
Never heard the day 40 thing before, but I know all that other crap already. Got it on my website.
Go challenge a theist, wouldja?
DNAUnion:
Okay, since you’re spoiling for…something or other.
A. Those weren’t my words, I copied them from a discussion from the Raving Atheist.
B. The contrary accounts become a matter of ‘he said/she said’, & it’s not a very good arguing point, unless you want to get into the tangled maze of ‘argument from scholarship’ (& hey, I HAVE walked down this same path). A better argument would be ‘where the f**k did all those ’saints’ go after resurrection? What were their names? Why’d they have to wait 3 days until JC rose 1st?’ Shit like that.
and
You can bite my ass.
Or maybe you haven’t been keeping up. I’ve laid into brock2 several times, made some commentary in another thread about my disgust at other atheists’ commentary about evicting muslims, stepped in & corrected many of my fellow atheists at many junctures in the past.
I am most CERTAINLY not going to argue w/you about something that I AGREE w/you on.
RA,
You are a GEM, my friend! I love this… two Atheists tussling like a couple of schoolboys!
RA – 1
DNA – 0
RA,
Allow me one small poke at Mr. DNA.
The bit about the star that guided the wise men is easily explained. If it was a Supernova, the light from it would likely persist for quite some time. I thought Atheists of all people would be quick to point out where science can support historical accounts of celestial phenomena!!!
Tim:
1st off, it was a misunderstanding. I tend to get a bit riled when someone (anyone, atheist or no) insinuates that I’m anything but a free-thinker.
I gave up on peer pressure back in HS.
2nd off, if you’d been paying attention, I’ve also been laying into TW on another thread. & there’s a 3rd atheist who I’ve blasted in the past.
3rd off, you may have missed the obvious: I agree w/him on most points. The separate travelogues lead to a mire of discussion & derailed trains of thought. I know: I’ve experienced it myself.
Oh, & how many supernovas can be seen w/the naked eye?
Anything that close, & I’d assume that it would be less than healthy for a solar system. But my astronomical acumen is woeful, & so could be off.
I’m surprised you didn’t suggest a comet instead. A supernova is stationary.
RA,
Additionally supernovae generally last for weeks. Not sure how long the guiding star was supposed to be there. Can you help me out there Tim?
HZ:
Well, 1 would assume at least a week, but probably a mo. or 2.
Magi were traditionally of Persia, if memory serves. & camels aren’t the fastest of creatures.
If they used camels.
I’ve also come across claims that the shephards & Magi were the same (which is a blink: double-blink: wha?).
& again, only Matthew mentions them.
An argument from silence.
A deafening silence.
Curious: when was the last supernovae that was visible to the naked eye?
As to the alleged Magi following it, well, a star doesn’t have to be moving to follow the thing.
Would’ve been nice if the Magi were inclined to write the account down. Would lend more credence.
Oh well.
ever been in a foxhole?
mrblondguy:
As you didn’t address this to anyone in particular, no, I haven’t.
We do have members that were. Gently. Ren. Did I miss anyone?
So yes, there ARE atheists in foxholes.
here, here…you missed me ….2 purple hearts……atheist through and through
imaskeptic:
Multiple & profuse apologies.
Should we have a role call?
Informal one, of course.
I think $%R& heads like Danny Boner Deusche are just cowards and that’s why they fear mythology and death.
He can’t get anyone to actually like him so he goes with what he thinks is a majority. I saw him on a reality tv show and he was a big cry-baby always getting mean with his girl friend. He thinks he’s a tough guy. I’m with Dave. I’ll throw in, he’s a punk. Let’s let him know it.
While we’re on that subject, it seems that every over-religious person I’ve met has something wrong with them and/or big skeletons in their closets. Does anyone know anyone normal that is extra-religious?
They always have something to hide and use religion as a crutch or a diversion to keep people off their backs. It’s ok to be a scum sucking pervert because I found Jesus… seems to be the biggest excuse and rational for losers to live with their sorry selves. It will justify anything. That’s how Danny the $&*( lives with his own sorry ^#@. Why is that atheists and humanists and related groups are the only ones who don’t pick on people and want a world where people integrate and get along rather than seperate and prejudge and hate?
Can I just say to all you good people out there?
Don’t let mistakes bother you too much. Learn from them and get over them. Don’t resort to mythology to find forgiveness in others.
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