http://apnews1.iwon.com/article/20060104/D8ETOLJ00.htmlOK so I’m a day late.Yesterday Dover ended their saga and ensured their children would not be taught that “maybe God did it” is science. Bravo Board!
http://apnews1.iwon.com/article/20060104/D8ETOLJ00.htmlOK so I’m a day late.Yesterday Dover ended their saga and ensured their children would not be taught that “maybe God did it” is science. Bravo Board!
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Alex,
No offense taken. I do understand your frustration and I thought I had conveyed more empathy in that former discussion. Perhaps not and this is just one of the limitations of discussing such sensitive issues on a Blog.
I still maintain that we can disagree without being disagreeable or prejudicial. All of us have opinions and we are each entitled to our respective points of view.
It saddens me that you have been subjected to such awful treatment, but please try to remember not all people of faith think and act the way those people did towards you.
bob,
If the genomes are so similar, why are we so different from chimpanzees?
We are not so different from chimpanzees considering that our common ancestor lived 7 million years ago.
I once looked closely at the teeth of a chimpanzee in a zoo. The chimpanzee’s teeth are identical to human teeth.
Tim-
Why are we so different? Because we have a few different genes that placed us radically ahead on the evolutionary tree. Think before you post man. If we know the genomes are nearly identical, then we can make these simple inferences about certain mutations having radical beneficial effects. That is the point of evolutionary theory. Little changes, big differences. Are you contesting the genome? Please, I dare you to.
Hey Tim,
You want equal treatment for all religious “theories” in school classrooms? How about teaching our kids the “theories” of the Muslims, which are so widely accepted in the world today? They make the same arguments as you in order to support their beliefs. With all this superstition being taught, would there be any room in school for actual science? You don’t really want equal treatment for “theories”, you just want to plug your religious beliefs whenever you can.
Alex,
I am using the word theory in one of it’s definitions:
“Abstract reasoning; speculation. An assumption or guess based on limited information or knowledge.”
Let’s not split hairs, my friend!
Tim,
I have but one question…
please list one?just one?only one?prediction that has been made using your Intelligent Design “theory”, which has proven positive.
Just one please.
As I’m sure you are aware, the test for any valid scientific theory is that predictions can be made from them that prove to be true. And as such, only valid scientific theories are taught in public schools.
I’m only asking for one.
And by the way, pointing out holes in any particular scientific theory (which you haven’t yet done with regards to evolution) does NOT validate your alternative “theory”, nor does it give it credit as a scientific theory.
Zac,
I am referring to the characteristics of humans that are not physiological.
Are you and others suggesting that all of mankind’s characteristics such as our abilities, emotions, etc., can be accounted for genetically?
Other primates are a lot like humans.
Gorilla’s have a sense of humor.
At the Lincoln Park Zoo in Chicago I was separated from a 500 pound gorilla only by thick window.
The gorilla was sitting in his chair not more than 1 foot from me.
Without warning he suddenly got up and threw his entire body at me.
I forgot about the thick window and was terrified.
The gorilla then laughed at me for a long time.
DVW,
Come now. Even others who support evolution here have admitted that macro-evolution is untestable!
Besides, I.D. is basically a theory based upon observation. Just like many other theories there is no “proof” to be re-created in a lab!
bob,
You should stay away from zoos…
Tim said “It saddens me that you have been subjected to such awful treatment, but please try to remember not all people of faith think and act the way those people did towards you.”
If awful treatment of gays at the hands of “xians” saddens you then why are you such an outspoken opponet of marriage equality? I would imagine that in the 50′s you would have also found biblical and traditional arguments against mixed race marriages too.
My limit has been reached in trying to deal calmly and rationally with religious people and although it is uncharacteristic of me to have juvenile outbursts I’m afraid that the more time I spend around f#cking idiots who are ruled by f#cking superstitious ignorance and religion the less I might be able to control these rants. I feel like I am just running my head against a brick wall.
Alex.
bob,
I got a good chuckle myself from your “observation” of the Gorilla. Laughing? Please.
I think you may be engaging in a little anthropomorphism. To suggest that animals have a “sense of humor” like that of man is quite a stretch!
Tim,
Of course emotions and abilities can be accounted for genetically! Science has proven that the creatures capable of such things are the ones with more powerful brains. We have the most powerful brains of all, so we have the most complex emotions. We evolved this way. Are you suggesting that no other creature has emotions?
At the Field Museum of Natural History I saw a skeleton of a very large bird and a very small dinosaur. The skeletons looked very similiar. I was seeing evidence that birds evolved from dinosaurs.
Even a simple domestic cat will display a sense of humour and joy when a string is dangled in front of its face. Are you suggesting that these aren’t emotions
Tim – If you saw what I saw – you would agree that this gorilla was laughing his head off because his practical joke worked so well.
Alex,
Let’s not go there today.
May I suggest that you try something?Think about our past discussion and ponder this question. Isn’t it possible that people have a rational, non-religious basis for their opinions even though you do not agree with them?
Non-religious, Tim?
I won’t even comment on that one.
Tim,
Sorry Tim, I’m not chasing the wallet – please answer my question.
P.S. Red herring replies do not work very well as good debating skills – I thought you would have figured that out by now. And second, would you like examples of how evolution IS being tested and used in the lab every day? I?ll give you examples once you answer my original questions ? as I don?t like doing peoples home work without some form of a reward
bob,
Have you studied Gorillas at all? There are reasons for their behavior, but they are not based upon human-like thoughts!
I know one thing. If I ever saw a chimpanzee, or a gorilla really laugh like a human I would start to question my own rationality.
http://www.koko.org/
I keep coming across the same misconceptions in debates over evolution.
Theories are scientific models to explain what we observe. Newton and Einstein formulated theories to explain the observed force of gravity. No one would say that gravity is “just a theory.” Darwin’s theory of natural selection was likewise an attempt to explain the observed linkages between organisms.
Theories of gravitation were tested by using them to predict such things as planetary motion and found to be essentially correct.
Evolution has been successfully tested by comparing anatomical, biochemical and genetic data and has been observed in short-lived organisms such as bacteria.
Intelligent design is not a theory; it is not testable.
The arguments used to promote it don’t hold water. For instance, we know how the eyeball evolved from simple eyespots all the in-between stages are perfectly functional.
The other misconception is that evolution is “directed.”
Human beings are not more highly evolved than tapeworms. Both humans and tapeworms are merely highly specialized in very different directions. Evolution consists of adapting to the environment, not achieving a higher state of being.
DVW,
Aren’t you the smart one! Gee, I guess I need to go back to school!
Nicely put
To all,
It’s been fun. Until tomorrow (or much later this evening) farewell…
Don’t get your hopes up, Tim, I was talking to Leestein.
I didn’t witness this one, I read about it:
In a zoo a huge gorilla was chasing a baby gorilla all over their large cage.
The zoo visitors were terrified this gorilla was going to kill this cute little baby gorilla.
Suddenly the baby gorilla stopped running, turned around, and made a threatening gesture to the adult gorilla.
The adult gorilla pretended to be horrified and turned around and ran. The baby gorilla chased after him.
The relieved zoo visitors than realized it was all a joke.
The Incompetent Designer would have had to put the ability and emotion into the part of the genome that codes brain development if he existed, Timmy Boy.
Why can’t they be accounted for genetically? We’re communal animals, we’d probably have died off if we hadn’t started living in groups, and emotions in particular would be necessary to do that without killing each other. Our abilities, too, seem to have really helped out, well-enough developed brain, we can do it.
The emotions arguement is old, anyway. All are accountable for my chemicals. Love is oxycotin…..
Tim,
Didn’t think you would answer.