Tomorrow is the day once mistaken to be the solstice, which was celebrated as the holiday of Yule by ancient Pagans. Christians moved the birth of their god to Yule and changed the name to Christ Mass to increase awareness and acceptance. It worked.Since 1870, Christmas is the only national holiday which is also a religious holiday. All people MUST celebrate, by taking the day off, not getting mail, and not taking care of any substantial business. Like the 4th of July or Labor Day, we are all subject to Xmas.The religious right says Xmas is too secularized, and I agree. This is the holiest day on the Christian Calendar, and most people think about Santa Claus or presents, not about it’s religious meaning.My take is that the reason it is too secular is that we force nonbelievers to celebrate, so we do what we can to enjoy ourselves. Non-Christians or non-religious Christians celebrate the secular aspects of the holiday, so these aspects are highlighted (”Holiday Light Spectaculars”), further reducing the sanctity of the religious holiday.This is not a holiday for all Americans, and therefore should not be a national holiday. All Americans should have one or two “floating days”, which can be used to take a day off from work on Christmas, Yom Kippour, Ramadan, their birthday, or any other day they wish. Then the religious holidays would be more sacred, and I could get some work done.
Karen,
My comment about brock’s postings being refreshing was an attempt to highlight that all camps have people with extreme (crazy) ideas. Sometimes I get a little smug thinking atheists are more rational and clear thinking than theists. Then along comes a brock2 or his ilk and knocks me from my comfort zone.
brock2, is more like a reality check. A timely example of popular conception of atheism.
You might have noticed that I have not exactly welcomed brock2’s postings
karen:
I must confess, I do find the whole thing a refreshing change of pace.
At least B2’s not advocating…some extreme action.
Osama bin Linda? Brrhhh! She’s STILL the biggest loon yet.
I don’t think anyone’s ever followed that act.
Ever.
G’nite, all.
HZ
Too true; too sad.
The squeaky wheel…
He’s not as bad as the skin-head atheists…yet. Still waiting to see where he goes.
I too get smug, as you said. spanders has helped to keep me grounded, but brock is a definite eye-opener.
As a theist, Christian Roman Catholic who reads this site – and enjoys it immensely, I would like to thank reluctantatheist, HeatheNZ, spanders and anyone else I might have overlooked, for your posts.
This site gives me tremendous insight not only in how atheists think and feel, but also in how we (boldly speaking as for all religious just for a second) appear and occur in the world of an atheist. I begin to understand, agree or not, how frustrating it can be to think differently in a country with so much Christianity being forced in to all aspects of life – gov’t and non-gov’t.
This is an excellent site, brock2, and by allowing respectful theists such as my self, to engage in discussion and dialog, is actually PRODUCTIVE in furthering the idea that atheists want to see in the world . . . a respect for the way they think, believe etc with a seperation of church and state.
I have many Conservative Christian friends that post similarly like you brock2, (obviously only against atheists). I respect your anger and your opinions; but like I say to the right wing Christian, what are you trying to accomplish?
There is a concept that is referred to in linguistics as “forwarding the conversation”. This is when words are used to actually ‘push forward’ the advancement of a goal or vision – and I believe that this blog does forward the conversation toward a vision of seperation of church and state that will make religious and non-religious able to live together without all the name-calling.
HeathenZ : “Is it supposed to be a joking or are you really advocating the wanton murder of our friends and relatives simply because they hold beliefs that you do not?” and “Exchanges here between theists (don’t know that there are any deists) and atheists are usually a sympton of communication. Some things individual theists have have say make a lot of sense. Somethings individuals atheists say are highly objectionable. If anything, your contributions (feeding Xians to lions) should remind us to judge the argument by its content rather the the philosophical leaning of the poster.”
Spanders: “If you don’t like the idea of discussing your ideas and sharpening your rhetoric, then you may consider, as reluctant suggested, starting your own blog.”
These things are forwarding the conversation — Christians read this blog. I know more than just myself that read it all the time. Including several clergy. They are seeking an understanding – not a conversion. Some theists may post, as I do, because I am confident in my ability to communicate without judgement. Some theists may post in the same way that you do – to vent, incite or to cooerce. There is nothing right or wrong about that, it is just not very productive and takes the whole situation backwards.
This was a great thread to read, and I shared it with many people (theists and non-theists) –
Thank you all for being who you are being . . .
lil dub:
Your kind words are appreciated, as well as your willingness to dialogue.
Sometimes I vent, or incite: I would like to believe I don’t coerce, but being human (& semi-self-involved: who ain’t?), it’s hard to turn the analytical eye on one’s own doings (the old adage, “Physician heal thyself” pops to mind).
We have only this life, & no more: I firmly believe that. We cannot repeat the mistakes of the past. The history of the ME is a blaring example of this.
You may refer to me as RA, if you like (just don’t tack on Atum to it: I have no delusions of self-deity, LOL).
It behooves us all to reach some form of harmony.
That’s the crux of any relationship:
Compromise. Unless it’s warlike & adversarial, territorialism to the Nth degree.
That way lies madness, & pain.
Far too much of that abounds, in our world.
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