ELLEN JOHNSON, President of American Atheists will be among the guests interviewed by veteran news and features journalist Barbara Walters this coming Tuesday, December 20, 2005 on an ABC special documentary, “Heaven — Where Is It? How Do We Get There?” The program airs on the ABC television network from 9:00 PM – 11:00 PM ET — check local listings.
Phreedm,
I would submit a slightly more existentialist response to your question. I believe that the only meaning life has is the meaning we give it. I don’t necessarily think the purpose of life is just to live, although that seems enough for some. I feel a sense of purpose to further the human race in their search for knowledge, in dispelling mistruth, in building a better world for the future, in creating and enjoying beauty. None of these requires God.
I happen to be a musician in my free time, and I feel some purpose in that, to create music, for myself and others. I don’t do it for the glory of God. I also don’t think I was endowed with any great gifts as I know how much effort I had to put in pursuing it myself. Plenty of atheists have purpose and meaning. It just isn’t to please God. in fact I defy you to give me an example of purpose in a Christian framework that isn’t to simply please God.
Further, why does theism entail purpose over atheism at all in your opinion? It seems to me like life would be less meaningful if I knew the outcomes of all my ethical choices. If I knew what the afterlife held for me. That doesn’t seem like I would have purpose, but that I was living out someone or something elses purpose. Like many have argued as well, can I even have free will if God is omniscient? Not to enticing or rewarding to me. I would rather set the bar for myself and define my own meaning, to strive to achieve my own ends. Ethics and meaning are more rewarding when done as ends in themselves rather than out of god fearing habit.
Incidentally, Phreedm, I think your level of discourse here has greatly improved and I would like to extend, if only for myself, a small olive branch to you. You get a pretty hard time here, and I think it has become a habit to be so quick to dismiss you just because we (sometimes loudly) disagree a lot. I am not endorsing your opinions by any means, but I do like the fights you stir up better than say, KKelly. I would hope that we are all responsible for maintaining civility here, not just that we expect it from our guests.
Zac,
I agree with you about the meaning of life. IMHO it is to progress as a race and build on our already rich history as sentient biological organisms. If I can add to the mix and contribute to this advancement then my life is not in vein.
To tie the supernatural into a meaning of life is just plain silly. It doesn’t help better the human race, or contribute anything. It’s a more selfish explination for meaning than anything else.
bygod
Other than being typically brainwashed by his religion, I didn’t see any signs of mental illness in the prisoner you mention.
My take was that he was extremely uncomfortable and embarrassed to be talking with a woman about very personal issues. An infidel white woman from the west, no less. I think he was probably also angry that she was a woman and in controlling his anger, his emotions came across as being a little hesitant and deferential.
What about him made you think he was mentally ill?
Well said. I would add that since we only have one life to live we are left with a very stark choice on the sort of meaning we wish to put into it. And since the only approximations to an ‘afterlife’ we could ever hope for are our legacy (the way we’ll be remembered and the things/ideas we leave behind) and our progeny (children if we wish to have them) then it’s reasonable to aspire for the most ethical and productive life possible. I like the way Paul Kurtz puts it, basically that we should treat our one life as the ultimate work of art.
I like the idea of a life as the ultimate work of art. It does capture something beautiful about finitude and legacy.
Like Nietzsche says, “Die at the right time…” and “Amor Fati” (love your fate). It is more than enough to embrace the life you have. Or like Jim Morrison says in ‘American Prayer’ (ZOMG I can’t believe I am quoting Doors lyrics) “You’ve seen your birth, your life and death/You might recall all of the rest./Did you have a good world when you died?/Enough to base a movie on?”
Well, I only watched up to the part where Ellen was on, & it may have been far too brief. Missed all the Xtian &/or near-death commentary.
I really do like the Dali Lama.
& honestly, Gere’s not my favorite actor, but I do respect him.
Why?
He stood up at a time (post 9/11), & called for calmness & reason (amid booing).
I have forgotten the exact event.
But to speak up when it’s unpopular to do so? Takes guts. Gotta admire that.
Walkin’ the talk.
I guess Gere was supposed to represent the Westerners’ view of Buddhism. I don’t really see why his interview was necessary. BW could have spent more time with Ellen, rather than focusing on celebs like Gere and Shriver, and the rather emotional near-death tale of Liz Taylor.
I missed Susan Blackmore completely; don’t know how. Her spot must have been awfully short.
karen:
Well, as an actor, he’s so-so. But it makes sense to bring a celebrity follower into the discussion.
If it were a Joe Schmoe off the street, who would care?
Besides, anyone who’d be on the Simpsons has my respect.
Can’t take oneself too seriously. Always a mistake.
Susan Blackmore’s website:
http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/
The near death experience. An experience that is more commom than one believes. I think in the special one of the doctor’s said it was caused by the brain running out of oxygen. When I was in the Air Force some used to do the centrifuge, a draconian device that spun around and caused the human body to experience high “G’s.” The astrounauts still use it I think and I would imagine most of you have seen one spin around with some guy inside with a distorted face as he eventually passes out. Anyway, some experiments were done years ago about how this device interreacted with the human brain and it was determined that many pilots and volunteers had a near death experience while going through this ordeal. Not everyone of course, seems some brains are more suseptable than others, but enough were affected so that further experimentation was conducted. I haven’t read anything out it in years so I admit my information is out of date but I do know that the “near death’ experience is quite natural and happens a lot when the human brain is deprived of oxygen. I can’t make myself comment on flying dogs and cats.
Ellen didn’t get much camera time. That’s the way the media cookie
crumbles. But the last quarter of the show spent a surprising amount of time discussing skeptic challenges to religion.
More favored was Michael White (http://www.utexas.edu/research/isac/lmw/), a religion/classics professor at U. Texas at Austin. I knew him as the head of the religion department when I was at Oberlin College. Even at that liberal, often very antireligious school, he loved finding and antagonizing rare Christian students who’d grown up making the mistake of accepting as fact everyday religious myths. (An article 16 years later at http://www.worldmag.com/subscriber/displayarticle.cfm?id=9680 shows he’s
still doing it). His popular book is “From Jesus to Christianity: How Four Generations of Visionaries & Storytellers Created the New Testament and Christian Faith” (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0060816104).
On the satirical Jewish account of Jesus, “Sepher Tolduth Yeshu”:
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~freethought/foote/toldoth/tjtitle.htm (1885 edition)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=1578849160 or https://lightning.he.net/~atheists/catalogue/shop/prod7026.php (AA Press’s extraordinarily comprehensive “The Jesus the Jews Never Knew: Sepher Toldoth Yeshu and the Quest of the Historical Jesus in Jewish Sources”) by Frank Zindler, with a bit of grunt work by me
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0OBB/is_3_41/ai_105160324
(Zindler discusses the book)
Josh
r4d
Actually the height requirement for fighter pilots varies with the type of plane they fly and is there not for G force conciderations, they have G suits to counteract that, but because if they are above a certain height and have to eject then they will have both legs cut off at the knees as they leave the plane. As I remember in the F4 Phantom the max height was 6′4″. I don’t know about todays planes like the F15.
Just some more useless information I have stored. Maybe I should read a book?
http://www.goosee.com/puppy/>
Hey,
I have my beleifs and I realy want to see what other people beleive. I kinda want to comment on some of the comments actually.
First, if God created us, the bible says that he gave us the choice to worship him, and that he deserves, but doesn’t demand our worship. Christians beleive that God saved them from eternal damnation. Don’t you think they would want to thank him for it? Also, forever worshiping God in heaven doesn’t seem wrong to Christians because the bible says that heaven is everything wonderful, and right. To most christians, this means a party and spending time with their idol (like if you are a huge fan of an actor/actress and they just forgave you for the $1 million you took-spending along time with them seems awesome)! And to them, it’s not teenagish at all. It is very real.
I had no idea that Muslems got sex after they died… I thought God created sex. Weird.
I think that too many people concentrate on their own beleifs so much that they don’t get out and try to understand what and why other people beleive what they do. I have been watching and talking to some Christians and they are very strong in their faith. Some people aren’t as strong, but others really feel that Jesus is the son of God and that he conquored death to save us all from the bad things we have done, and essentially, hell. So far no other religion has caught my attention as much as them.
I am not saying we should all beleive the bible, that is every person’s choice, but I think that as a group of people, we need to be more open and educated about what others beleive so we can understand why they beleive it.
Thanks for listening!
If you were a student in school and your teacher said that 2+2=4, you want to know why. Even if they are wrong, we should undterstand their thinking.