ELLEN JOHNSON, President of American Atheists will be among the guests interviewed by veteran news and features journalist Barbara Walters this coming Tuesday, December 20, 2005 on an ABC special documentary, “Heaven — Where Is It? How Do We Get There?” The program airs on the ABC television network from 9:00 PM – 11:00 PM ET — check local listings.
Just saw the ABC/Baba Wawa special on Heaven. Ellen did great. But I was struck how most of the believers who tried to describe “heaven” did so in remarkably earthy terms, i.e. eating a lot without gaining weight, being re-united for a spouse (yet having plenty of side action…)… Hmmm, sounded pretty much like the Love Boat.
well the dahli llama was great. for such a revered person he came across as the most normal of them all.
ellen was ok but as you can see it is difficult to come across as comforting given our beliefs which are viewed as depressing to those who want a wonderful afterlife in heaven with their deceased love ones.
what was interesting is that the basic hope of an afterlife which is better than life on earth and you are in peaceful bliss is a common thread to all.
so all this points out is the obvious appeal of atheism is really an educational and truth seeking process. that’s why we will remain a minority. but shoot, i love being a rebel anyhow.
g’nite guys and gals.
The one scientist, after Ellen, claims to have found a mutation in human genes. He calls it the God gene. People with this gene have an easier time being spiritual.
Since one of the driving forces of evolution are mutations that create a new life form, maybe it’s the exact opposite of what has been proclaimed here.
Perhaps those with this gene are actually a rung higher on the evolutionary ladder. And having scientific proof presented this sure seems plausible.
Wouldn’t that be a hoot?
Zac’s correct – I’m mixing my philosophers again.
I skipped the show. My copy of Serenity arrived from Amazon – I arrived home at 7:30 – had dinner and spouse and I retired to watch the film (it was out of the theaters before I could see it). I fell asleep about 2/3 through the film.
Oh well – now I have the +ians and Firefly folks hating me.
phreedm
Blockquote>The last lady made a great statement.
She know’s her life has purpose.
Yeah. She died for 4 minutes after a c-section giving birth to her second child and had the revelation that her purpose was to be a mother. DUH.
Notice how Babs didn’t follow up on the scientific stuff nearly as much as she went on about the superstitious stuff?
DalaiLama was cool. The NY Muslim guy was pretty cool too. Tim Haggard gave me the creeps again. Ellen was good. Seemed a little too happy that this is all there is. I thought maybe she was nervous. I felt she had a lot more to say. The vibe was, “JUST LET ME SPEAK, Baba Wawa!!!!”
ACK! I shrubbed another blockquote. It IS getting pretty tired in here. Think it’s about time to toddle off to bed.
I keep seeing Maria Shriver’s anorexic look. That woman needs to eat something.
I just did a blog entry on the Heaven special, but it’s too long to put here. Feel free to check it out at http://www.mikesweeklyskepticrant.blogspot.com if you like (sorry, I suck at html). Ellen was great for the two minutes she was on, but the short duration was no surprise coming from the Chairwoman of The View.
Did anyone note the inconsistencies of the after-life experiences? One saw cats and dogs climbing up a staircase, or something to that effect. Another saw brick walls. No two were the same. If after life experiences were genuine, they would all be nearly identical. We credit to gods what we do not know or understand.
The psychologist attributed these experiences to increased brain activity. She is right. (Even fundamentalists know they are not genuine.)
The god gene? Seems to me that the findings were inconclusive. The universal inclination to believe in the supernatural may be physiological. Then again, someone in an earlier thread noted that in the very few instances where children were raised apart from human influence ? such as those raised by animals ? they had no sense of spiritual awareness; no sense of the supernatural. So is our sense of the supernatural inherited, or is it sociological? Or both?
And for the record…
I believe Walters was steering her viewers toward the conclusion that because the various concepts of heaven are so different they cannot be true, that atheists can see through the nonsense and that scientific inquiry confirms that atheists are correct.
It was coup for atheism; a subtle nudging of Americans away from its Christian mindset.
All life has purpose. We all have one life, and our purpose is to live it. It’s just too precious not to live purposefully.
God gene theory is VERY controversial and untested, but there is plenty of evidence for an evolutionary purpose of magical thinking.
Okay, the show’s almost over here. My thoughts:
Even though they were each only given about 30 seconds air time, I think Ellen Johnson and Susan Blackmore did a fantastic job. Ellen was straight forward and rational, and she said basically everything I could’ve hoped she would say. Blackmore kept her feet on the ground (and her hair brown,) and focused on her research findings.
Dean Hamer (the God gene guy) gave a pretty persuasive argument (albeit short.) I’ve read many critiques of his work, but perhaps it’s time to pick up a copy of his book and see what he has to say.
The Dahli Lama was charming as usual, but kooky as ever. You gotta respect the guy’s humility though.
Tim Haggard is a f*cking psycho. Seriously, that dude scares the crap out of me.
And I have to agree with Seeker when it comes to the ‘near deathers.’ Dogs and cats running up and down a staircase? Sorry lady, that’s a hallucination.
My wife said a funny thing after that segment. She has a crazy case of arachnophobia, and says that her biggest fear is that when her brain begins to shut down and release all those suppressed memories she’ll dream she’s covered in thousands of spiders. Yikes!
GOOD JOB ELLEN!!!!!!
phreedm-
What purpose do we have? Well, I can only speak for myself. The meaning of life for me is to live. So my purpose is to live.
Ellen got the least amount of time!:(
BUT, at least Baba didnt give the crazy evangelicals as much time as the Dahli! She also portrayed buddhism in very high regards! My guess.. ole Baba is a buddhist.
I was also dissapointed with the air time Ellen got. She wasn’t able to articulate at all WHY we feel the way we do. Everyone knows an atheist doesn’t believe in a hearafter. But all in all it didn’t go badly. I won’t repeat what everyone above me said about the born againer’s, very scary folks, and the Dahli Lama. I think that as scary as the born againer’s are the guy she interviewed in the jail in Isreal, the failed suicied bomber, showed in great detail what the world is up against. He was really scary!
BTW, FOX is going to do their thing about religion I think on Sunday. If I’m wrong about the day someone please correct me. It’s about the birth of christ and they are going to debunk all the myths surrounding said birth. Shoud be fair and unbaised?
I think Barbie did a good job showing the inherent contradictions between the abrahamic religions, jeezus is the only guarantee from that psycho evangelist, the suicide bomber says mohammed is the only way, etc. The blasphemy was there, but for the mostly xian audience, I doubt they picked that up. Ellen did get hosed on the airtime, and it shows what kind of a journalist you are when you spend time interviewing dipshit celebrities like Gere & Shriver than Blackmore & Hamer.
It could have been a lot worse.
I thought Ellen did a great job, thanks to her for representing us in a honorable manner.
I thought Ellen did a good job on the interview with Babs. But i was a bit disappointed that she got so little air time then the rest of the religious figures. Well maybe because i couldn’t really concentrate on the conversation, i was busy talking with mom (she’s Japanese) about the concept of the afterlife and it went something like this:
me: man that Tim Haggard is one creepy mother******.
mom: i know, maybe thats why people aren’t going to church anymore.
me: did you know that people actually believe all this?
mom: well, it is comfoting for some to know that some one is watching over them and get to go to someplace peaceful after you die.
me: but there’s alot of loopholes (especially christianity) if you think about it.
mom: how so?
me: if you’re a law abiting good citizen who are compationate and helpful, but don’t believe in Jesus/God… BAM!!! you go to hell.
mom: oh my…
me: but if you’re a serial killer who killed i don’t know… 20, 30 people, you can go to heaven if you seek forgiveness, repent, and put Jeebus in to your heart. See the hypocracy?
mom: OMG
me: and some people schools in this country don’t teach evolution too.
mom: huh? no way, every school teach evolution.
me: no not all of them.
mom: you’re kidding?
me: i kid you not.
mom: but in Japan, all the schools teach evolution.
me: that’s why that country is decades advanced in technology.
Funny thanks for the comments
Serious Questions about Walters interview
Walters had an extensive conversation with an Israeli prisoner who was a would-be suicide bomber. It appeared to me that this man probably had a serious mental illness. If this person was identifiable by Muslims as such, than it could be an idication that they intentially take advantage of those unable to make sound decisions. Please don’t respond to this posting with childish insults about Islam. It is hard to believe that even the strictest Muslims would consider this person to be normal. If he was not typical of any pattern, than the Walters interview was misleading.
Phreedm,
I would submit a slightly more existentialist response to your question. I believe that the only meaning life has is the meaning we give it. I don’t necessarily think the purpose of life is just to live, although that seems enough for some. I feel a sense of purpose to further the human race in their search for knowledge, in dispelling mistruth, in building a better world for the future, in creating and enjoying beauty. None of these requires God.
I happen to be a musician in my free time, and I feel some purpose in that, to create music, for myself and others. I don’t do it for the glory of God. I also don’t think I was endowed with any great gifts as I know how much effort I had to put in pursuing it myself. Plenty of atheists have purpose and meaning. It just isn’t to please God. in fact I defy you to give me an example of purpose in a Christian framework that isn’t to simply please God.
Further, why does theism entail purpose over atheism at all in your opinion? It seems to me like life would be less meaningful if I knew the outcomes of all my ethical choices. If I knew what the afterlife held for me. That doesn’t seem like I would have purpose, but that I was living out someone or something elses purpose. Like many have argued as well, can I even have free will if God is omniscient? Not to enticing or rewarding to me. I would rather set the bar for myself and define my own meaning, to strive to achieve my own ends. Ethics and meaning are more rewarding when done as ends in themselves rather than out of god fearing habit.
Incidentally, Phreedm, I think your level of discourse here has greatly improved and I would like to extend, if only for myself, a small olive branch to you. You get a pretty hard time here, and I think it has become a habit to be so quick to dismiss you just because we (sometimes loudly) disagree a lot. I am not endorsing your opinions by any means, but I do like the fights you stir up better than say, KKelly. I would hope that we are all responsible for maintaining civility here, not just that we expect it from our guests.
Zac,
I agree with you about the meaning of life. IMHO it is to progress as a race and build on our already rich history as sentient biological organisms. If I can add to the mix and contribute to this advancement then my life is not in vein.
To tie the supernatural into a meaning of life is just plain silly. It doesn’t help better the human race, or contribute anything. It’s a more selfish explination for meaning than anything else.
bygod
Other than being typically brainwashed by his religion, I didn’t see any signs of mental illness in the prisoner you mention.
My take was that he was extremely uncomfortable and embarrassed to be talking with a woman about very personal issues. An infidel white woman from the west, no less. I think he was probably also angry that she was a woman and in controlling his anger, his emotions came across as being a little hesitant and deferential.
What about him made you think he was mentally ill?
Well said. I would add that since we only have one life to live we are left with a very stark choice on the sort of meaning we wish to put into it. And since the only approximations to an ‘afterlife’ we could ever hope for are our legacy (the way we’ll be remembered and the things/ideas we leave behind) and our progeny (children if we wish to have them) then it’s reasonable to aspire for the most ethical and productive life possible. I like the way Paul Kurtz puts it, basically that we should treat our one life as the ultimate work of art.
I like the idea of a life as the ultimate work of art. It does capture something beautiful about finitude and legacy.
Like Nietzsche says, “Die at the right time…” and “Amor Fati” (love your fate). It is more than enough to embrace the life you have. Or like Jim Morrison says in ‘American Prayer’ (ZOMG I can’t believe I am quoting Doors lyrics) “You’ve seen your birth, your life and death/You might recall all of the rest./Did you have a good world when you died?/Enough to base a movie on?”
Well, I only watched up to the part where Ellen was on, & it may have been far too brief. Missed all the Xtian &/or near-death commentary.
I really do like the Dali Lama.
& honestly, Gere’s not my favorite actor, but I do respect him.
Why?
He stood up at a time (post 9/11), & called for calmness & reason (amid booing).
I have forgotten the exact event.
But to speak up when it’s unpopular to do so? Takes guts. Gotta admire that.
Walkin’ the talk.
I guess Gere was supposed to represent the Westerners’ view of Buddhism. I don’t really see why his interview was necessary. BW could have spent more time with Ellen, rather than focusing on celebs like Gere and Shriver, and the rather emotional near-death tale of Liz Taylor.
I missed Susan Blackmore completely; don’t know how. Her spot must have been awfully short.
karen:
Well, as an actor, he’s so-so. But it makes sense to bring a celebrity follower into the discussion.
If it were a Joe Schmoe off the street, who would care?
Besides, anyone who’d be on the Simpsons has my respect.
Can’t take oneself too seriously. Always a mistake.
Susan Blackmore’s website:
http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/
The near death experience. An experience that is more commom than one believes. I think in the special one of the doctor’s said it was caused by the brain running out of oxygen. When I was in the Air Force some used to do the centrifuge, a draconian device that spun around and caused the human body to experience high “G’s.” The astrounauts still use it I think and I would imagine most of you have seen one spin around with some guy inside with a distorted face as he eventually passes out. Anyway, some experiments were done years ago about how this device interreacted with the human brain and it was determined that many pilots and volunteers had a near death experience while going through this ordeal. Not everyone of course, seems some brains are more suseptable than others, but enough were affected so that further experimentation was conducted. I haven’t read anything out it in years so I admit my information is out of date but I do know that the “near death’ experience is quite natural and happens a lot when the human brain is deprived of oxygen. I can’t make myself comment on flying dogs and cats.