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	<title>Comments on: Off to Phil Con</title>
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	<link>http://atheists.org/blog/2005/12/09/off_to_phil_con</link>
	<description>A Blog of Atheist Thought</description>
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		<title>By: reluctantatheist</title>
		<link>http://atheists.org/blog/2005/12/09/off_to_phil_con/comment-page-1#comment-12192</link>
		<dc:creator>reluctantatheist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-12192</guid>
		<description>HZ, Seeker:&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;  You are not alone. I also had the same issue. Perhaps it&#039;s the vengence of God???&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;
I ran into a minor problem w/posting yesterday, but it went away.&lt;br /&gt;
Maybe God likes me better than you 2? LOL!&lt;br /&gt;
(Yeesh, &amp; I talk WAY more smack than either of youse guys, too!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HZ, Seeker:</p>
<blockquote><p>  You are not alone. I also had the same issue. Perhaps it&#8217;s the vengence of God???</p></blockquote>
<p>
I ran into a minor problem w/posting yesterday, but it went away.<br />
Maybe God likes me better than you 2? LOL!<br />
(Yeesh, &amp; I talk WAY more smack than either of youse guys, too!)</p>
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		<title>By: Mesoforte</title>
		<link>http://atheists.org/blog/2005/12/09/off_to_phil_con/comment-page-1#comment-17769</link>
		<dc:creator>Mesoforte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-17769</guid>
		<description>Seeker&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&quot;America&#039;s economic and military strengths can be attributed to its devotion to the Christian ethic.&quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Actually, it can be better attributed to individualism. Capitalism works well with individualism, simple as that. There is so much stress on competition in our country that we used to and still do strive to be the best. Though that has faded somewhat in recent days in the education area, we still have that pride of wanting to be at the top.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Also, as The Noodley appendage pointed out-&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&quot;It&#039;s because all the other Western nations ended up obliterating themselves in World War II that gave us the economic advantage&quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
This also helped us become the econimic and military superpower we are now a shadow of. Unfortunately, America is now more spread out and that weakens us.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Right now, America is actually fading from the core (top) to the semi-periphery (middle) type of power. Globalization is slowing our country down. This isn&#039;t neccasarily a bad thing, it just a pattern in the shift of power. Look at the UK and Spain, their still operating their countries and the world is okay. (China is going to replace us BTW.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seeker</p>
<p>&#8220;America&#8217;s economic and military strengths can be attributed to its devotion to the Christian ethic.&#8221;</p>
<p>Actually, it can be better attributed to individualism. Capitalism works well with individualism, simple as that. There is so much stress on competition in our country that we used to and still do strive to be the best. Though that has faded somewhat in recent days in the education area, we still have that pride of wanting to be at the top.</p>
<p>Also, as The Noodley appendage pointed out-</p>
<p>&#8220;It&#8217;s because all the other Western nations ended up obliterating themselves in World War II that gave us the economic advantage&#8221;</p>
<p>This also helped us become the econimic and military superpower we are now a shadow of. Unfortunately, America is now more spread out and that weakens us.</p>
<p>Right now, America is actually fading from the core (top) to the semi-periphery (middle) type of power. Globalization is slowing our country down. This isn&#8217;t neccasarily a bad thing, it just a pattern in the shift of power. Look at the UK and Spain, their still operating their countries and the world is okay. (China is going to replace us BTW.)</p>
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		<title>By: TXatheist</title>
		<link>http://atheists.org/blog/2005/12/09/off_to_phil_con/comment-page-1#comment-18229</link>
		<dc:creator>TXatheist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-18229</guid>
		<description>Not in our lifetime will religion be gone.  In my opinion religion has something to offer, everlasting life.  Most people would not dare consider that once they die that&#039;s it.  The idea of god is unknowable so they hope it&#039;s true.  They aren&#039;t going to give that up for the most part.  Many times it&#039;s indoctrinated early on and from parents.  That bond of trust is strong so a child perceives their parent is being honest and it sticks with most people.  But good luck Dave, non-religious folks as a US percentage is growing so I&#039;m optomistic that will continue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not in our lifetime will religion be gone.  In my opinion religion has something to offer, everlasting life.  Most people would not dare consider that once they die that&#8217;s it.  The idea of god is unknowable so they hope it&#8217;s true.  They aren&#8217;t going to give that up for the most part.  Many times it&#8217;s indoctrinated early on and from parents.  That bond of trust is strong so a child perceives their parent is being honest and it sticks with most people.  But good luck Dave, non-religious folks as a US percentage is growing so I&#8217;m optomistic that will continue.</p>
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		<title>By: mryder66</title>
		<link>http://atheists.org/blog/2005/12/09/off_to_phil_con/comment-page-1#comment-18233</link>
		<dc:creator>mryder66</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-18233</guid>
		<description>Sorry to say, but I think there will be a continued strong upsurge in religion globally.  Primarily as a effort to identify with a particular civilization, or more accurately differentiate oneself from other civilizations.&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Crazy god-people are going to dominate for the forseeable future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry to say, but I think there will be a continued strong upsurge in religion globally.  Primarily as a effort to identify with a particular civilization, or more accurately differentiate oneself from other civilizations.</p>
<p>Crazy god-people are going to dominate for the forseeable future.</p>
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		<title>By: rainbows4dinosaurs</title>
		<link>http://atheists.org/blog/2005/12/09/off_to_phil_con/comment-page-1#comment-18248</link>
		<dc:creator>rainbows4dinosaurs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-18248</guid>
		<description>Just begun reading Michael Shermer&#039;s &quot;How We Believe.&quot; &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
In the opening chapter he talks about how Nietzsche and Time magazine got it wrong when they proclaimed that God was dead. The fact is that, in our country at least, theistic belief has actually grown tremendously since Nietzsche. Shermer calls his theory as to why this is happening &quot;Supply Side Religion.&quot; Essentially, it is our lack of a government established religion that allows for a sort of free market atmosphere in the realm of supernatural belief. Every church, synagogue, and meditation retreat is competing for new &#039;customers,&#039; and as a result there are custom religious &#039;products&#039; to suit the needs of practically every manner of belief. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Like I said, I just started this book, but it already has me reconsidering a lot of things and reevaluating my own perspective. This &quot;Supply Side Religion&quot; theory presents an interesting dilemma. If one&#039;s goal is to minimize the effect that religious thought has on the world, could it be that the Establishment Clause is actually hampering this effort? And on the other side of the coin, could it be that the encroachment of fundamentalism and the push for a more theocratic government may end up having the opposite effect that they desire, eventually resulting in a downturn in church attendance? &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just begun reading Michael Shermer&#8217;s &#8220;How We Believe.&#8221; </p>
<p>In the opening chapter he talks about how Nietzsche and Time magazine got it wrong when they proclaimed that God was dead. The fact is that, in our country at least, theistic belief has actually grown tremendously since Nietzsche. Shermer calls his theory as to why this is happening &#8220;Supply Side Religion.&#8221; Essentially, it is our lack of a government established religion that allows for a sort of free market atmosphere in the realm of supernatural belief. Every church, synagogue, and meditation retreat is competing for new &#8216;customers,&#8217; and as a result there are custom religious &#8216;products&#8217; to suit the needs of practically every manner of belief. </p>
<p>Like I said, I just started this book, but it already has me reconsidering a lot of things and reevaluating my own perspective. This &#8220;Supply Side Religion&#8221; theory presents an interesting dilemma. If one&#8217;s goal is to minimize the effect that religious thought has on the world, could it be that the Establishment Clause is actually hampering this effort? And on the other side of the coin, could it be that the encroachment of fundamentalism and the push for a more theocratic government may end up having the opposite effect that they desire, eventually resulting in a downturn in church attendance? </p>
<p></p>
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		<title>By: Slimmins</title>
		<link>http://atheists.org/blog/2005/12/09/off_to_phil_con/comment-page-1#comment-18249</link>
		<dc:creator>Slimmins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-18249</guid>
		<description>&quot;Essentially, it is our lack of a government established religion that allows for a sort of free market atmosphere in the realm of supernatural belief.&quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
I agree with this.  If people had that sense of guidance religion provides from a government entity, they&#039;d have no need for the privatized pillow now offered as a fallback.  This is why I think there should be an expert panel of professional secular government humanitarian organizations that get together to provide help when it comes to life&#039;s philosophical issues.  Of course, at all times, there should also be a counter-point panel to ensure there is no totalitarian abuse in ideas, which allows for irrational extremist fundamentalist government law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Essentially, it is our lack of a government established religion that allows for a sort of free market atmosphere in the realm of supernatural belief.&#8221;</p>
<p>I agree with this.  If people had that sense of guidance religion provides from a government entity, they&#8217;d have no need for the privatized pillow now offered as a fallback.  This is why I think there should be an expert panel of professional secular government humanitarian organizations that get together to provide help when it comes to life&#8217;s philosophical issues.  Of course, at all times, there should also be a counter-point panel to ensure there is no totalitarian abuse in ideas, which allows for irrational extremist fundamentalist government law.</p>
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		<title>By: syphonius</title>
		<link>http://atheists.org/blog/2005/12/09/off_to_phil_con/comment-page-1#comment-18250</link>
		<dc:creator>syphonius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-18250</guid>
		<description>Interesting stuff r4d.  It mirrors what Dave told vos Savant about people shopping around to find a religion that fits their morals (is this where he got it from?).&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
However, I don&#039;t believe I would be willing to accept a theocracy in order to see the downfall of religion 100 years later.  It&#039;s a sticky wicket for sure.&lt;br /&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting stuff r4d.  It mirrors what Dave told vos Savant about people shopping around to find a religion that fits their morals (is this where he got it from?).</p>
<p>However, I don&#8217;t believe I would be willing to accept a theocracy in order to see the downfall of religion 100 years later.  It&#8217;s a sticky wicket for sure.</p>
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		<title>By: rainbows4dinosaurs</title>
		<link>http://atheists.org/blog/2005/12/09/off_to_phil_con/comment-page-1#comment-18253</link>
		<dc:creator>rainbows4dinosaurs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-18253</guid>
		<description>Actually, I still strongly believe in the establishment clause. I don&#039;t want anyone to get the impression that I am advocating a government takeover of religion. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Think about it folks, atheism (or humanism, non-theism, naturalistic pantheism, brights, or whatever you wish to call it) just isn&#039;t competing very well in the free market. We need to get over our curmudgeony (is that a word?) and start representing a positive, life affirming message. I&#039;m speaking just as much about myself as I am the rest of us. Giving up supernaturalism has had a positive influence on many of our lives, and we need to start emphasizing that positivity. Basically, we need to figure out a way to offer something more to people than just &quot;you&#039;re crazy.&quot;&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I still strongly believe in the establishment clause. I don&#8217;t want anyone to get the impression that I am advocating a government takeover of religion. </p>
<p>Think about it folks, atheism (or humanism, non-theism, naturalistic pantheism, brights, or whatever you wish to call it) just isn&#8217;t competing very well in the free market. We need to get over our curmudgeony (is that a word?) and start representing a positive, life affirming message. I&#8217;m speaking just as much about myself as I am the rest of us. Giving up supernaturalism has had a positive influence on many of our lives, and we need to start emphasizing that positivity. Basically, we need to figure out a way to offer something more to people than just &#8220;you&#8217;re crazy.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: ebonyfax</title>
		<link>http://atheists.org/blog/2005/12/09/off_to_phil_con/comment-page-1#comment-18256</link>
		<dc:creator>ebonyfax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-18256</guid>
		<description>Hardships prompt religious revivals. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
Economic downturns, epidemics, natural disasters, war, terrorist attacks, etc. spawn renewed interest in religion. Therefore, as long as we live in an imperfect world there will be quest for a higher answer. &lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
&lt;br /&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hardships prompt religious revivals. </p>
<p>Economic downturns, epidemics, natural disasters, war, terrorist attacks, etc. spawn renewed interest in religion. Therefore, as long as we live in an imperfect world there will be quest for a higher answer. </p>
<p></p>
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		<title>By: Slimmins</title>
		<link>http://atheists.org/blog/2005/12/09/off_to_phil_con/comment-page-1#comment-18257</link>
		<dc:creator>Slimmins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Unknown, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-18257</guid>
		<description>Absolutely correct r4d.  However, the kick comes with formulating a life plan with a zeal many times greater than the delusional prospect of moving on to eternally live in cotton clouds after death.  The best I&#039;ve come across is humanism, but only because it actually seems to have a mission statement beyond just, &quot;no superstitions&quot;, and &quot;you&#039;re crazy&quot;.  The thing it probably needs more of is positive encouragement from fellow people, as well as motivational methods for living a positive loving lifestyle.  If all you offer is moral relativism, then too much burden is placed on the individual, who is then isolated to becoming a hard-nosed thankless skeptic.  The positive zeal meaning&#039;s gone in such a life.  You are alone, with no one to bail you out but yourself.  Such a life does tend to be morose only, because it doesn&#039;t have the alleviating mores gotten through ritual.  Lack of purpose beyond discovery of the unknown through empirical principles also is not very emotionally satisfying.  There is complexity, there is rule, laws, order in the universe, all the while, everything remains neutral.  It just is, and if we are ultimately to come to terms with this, we must remove ourselves from the emotional human component, and structure ourselves in greater systemic form so as to become more efficient in the process of rational thought, and discovery.  This is not the holy praising blessed candy happy LSD spirit of the Lord, which is why people just aren&#039;t as attracted to it.  Unless you can tag on that sugar sweet candy feel to being a freethinker, people will simply go back to fantasy idealism meshed together wit plenty rarified &quot;dangerous&quot; sex (making it all the more luring), and other brain candy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely correct r4d.  However, the kick comes with formulating a life plan with a zeal many times greater than the delusional prospect of moving on to eternally live in cotton clouds after death.  The best I&#8217;ve come across is humanism, but only because it actually seems to have a mission statement beyond just, &#8220;no superstitions&#8221;, and &#8220;you&#8217;re crazy&#8221;.  The thing it probably needs more of is positive encouragement from fellow people, as well as motivational methods for living a positive loving lifestyle.  If all you offer is moral relativism, then too much burden is placed on the individual, who is then isolated to becoming a hard-nosed thankless skeptic.  The positive zeal meaning&#8217;s gone in such a life.  You are alone, with no one to bail you out but yourself.  Such a life does tend to be morose only, because it doesn&#8217;t have the alleviating mores gotten through ritual.  Lack of purpose beyond discovery of the unknown through empirical principles also is not very emotionally satisfying.  There is complexity, there is rule, laws, order in the universe, all the while, everything remains neutral.  It just is, and if we are ultimately to come to terms with this, we must remove ourselves from the emotional human component, and structure ourselves in greater systemic form so as to become more efficient in the process of rational thought, and discovery.  This is not the holy praising blessed candy happy LSD spirit of the Lord, which is why people just aren&#8217;t as attracted to it.  Unless you can tag on that sugar sweet candy feel to being a freethinker, people will simply go back to fantasy idealism meshed together wit plenty rarified &#8220;dangerous&#8221; sex (making it all the more luring), and other brain candy.</p>
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