Who: Mike Rivers, Utah State DirectorWhat: Discuss the lawsuit by American AtheistsWhen: 8 PM Eastern, 5 PM Pacific, the show repeats two more times this evening. Check local listings.Where: Bill O?Reilly?s Show ?The Fudge Factor.? Watch the Fudge Factor as it hits the ?Spin Zone.?
American Atheists filed suit against the Utah Highway Patrol Commander and the Executive Director of the Utah Department of Transportation seeking the removal of large steel crosses erected adjacent to state highways bearing the beehive logo of the Highway Patrol. The crosses have been erected with permission from the state by the Utah Highway Patrol Association, a private corporation that aids and supports troopers. The Latin crosses mark locations where troopers have been killed in the line of duty.
These crosses are steel, and 12 FEET tall, and they litter the highway. They have the official emblem of the state Police on them, and clearly cross the pseudo-grey line between respecting fallen heroes and using their death to break the law. Home-made crosses placed on the side of the road temporarily by loved ones are one thing; Permanent steel 12 foot crosses lining the roads is quite different.
gently-
That was a rather good rant, and you pointed out something that most people skip around. Personally, I consider parents a societal influence, and a very great one at that. That the parents themselves are demeaning the education systems isn’t surprising. In my old town there were paretns who didn’t care whether or not their children went to school. Its sad.
I for one am pretty tired of seeing memorials on the highway. I would rather see that effort, money, time put into making roads safer, discouraging drunk driving etc. Memorials belong in graveyards unless the site is of historical importance. That is why graveyards exist, because to make a spectacle of every place someone died would be impractical and tacky. I think this practice is more indicative of the vanity, arrogance and hauter of the ones putting up these little roadside attractions, grieved as they may be. Why would anyone want to keep going back to that place? I don’t imagine people want to go back to the hospital bed their mother died in.
Death of a loved one is terrible. Death of a civil servant is noble and terrible. Neither deserve to be celebrated in a tacky way.
That said, I do think this might make AA look bad, as others have already mentioned.
Someone will inevitably crash into one of these things someday. What will they do then?
carl0632
my thoughts, every time I log onto an American web page, are unprintable.
That a whole nation can be usurped by persons calling themselves capitalists instead of robber barons, I find incredible.
True, most reasonable people dont get involved with politics except in an effort to help the community at large. But when injustice is piled on injustice, thats the time to pull the plug on a system that is corrupt.
How? Well, when our right wing rip off merchants tried to enforce a tax that hit the poorest hardest, we took to the streets with non-violent protests. Some were run down by police on horses, but that just showed how incompetent they all were. Police and politicians. Result? They abolished the “poll tax” then were voted out.
It all takes time but you have to push back to get anywhere.
Another way is to do an O’Really. Stop buying from those working against the best interests of your community and support those who have a more ethical outlook.
American Athiests are right to take on the Utah police. Pity they cannot afford to take more actions than they are. Keep the pressure on the religious and ultra right wing who would take every right away thats been hard won by working stiffs over many years. The only “work” they know is how to sign away other peoples benefits whilst increasing their own.
Peaches & Rainbow, thank you both. As I said I didn’t come here to judge or to push my beliefs just to get some insite on what the whole thing was about. I know that I can not turn any one to christianity just as no one here will turn me from it. It is the same with various religions each of us have different beliefs. Personally, I don’t believe something like this is worth the money and energy spent on it. The court costs involved could also be used for all the various things that everyone thinks that Utah should spend the money for the memorials on. I think there are bigger and more important battles to fight. Again that is my opinion just as I respect your although we may disagree that is what makes each of us unique individuals.
And we also have the reputation for being the most religious of all those nations.
I say that some publically funded twelve-foot-tall upside-down black crosses are in order. That ought to get some attention. How could they make a claim to legitimacy in this case when they’d immediately cave to the public outcry that symbols of “devil worship” would evoke?
Here is a link to the story:
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635165645,00.html
Quote from the article:
“Todd Royce, former president of the Utah Highway Patrol Association, which helps place the memorial crosses, calls the suit a little late.” “This was years in the working,” Royce said. “Some of these crosses have been up for seven or eight years. When we put them up, nobody opposed them.”
I say better late than never. There’s not any kind of statute of limitations on protesting this as far as I’m aware of. It’s a blatant in your face violation of separation of church and state. AA definately has a tough battle ahead and I commend them for taking this on. The religiouso will definately come out spinning like indignent tasmanian devils over this one and for their chance to sneer at the constitution.
Here is a link to th complaint lodged by American Atheists:
http://www.atheists.org/legal/UHPCrosses-NOVEMBER-30-2005.PDF
If there is any doubt as to the scale of these things it is erased when you can see a car in the background for scale.
Mike Rivers on the Bill Orielly show. He could not have looked any more stupid if he had put his finger up his nose. You people should be real proud of this idiot! By the way those crosses were paid for and erected by the Utah Patrol Officers association (A private organization) Taxpayers did not pay a dime for them. They are well off the road along the freeway fence and are not a hazard. They remind us of the ultimate sacrifice paid for our safety. When I pass one it does remind me to slow down and be safe. Surely you have better battles to waste your money on.
keymngt:
1st off, O’Reilly’s a jackass.
2nd off, Rivers is a Utah atheist, & he DOESN’T represent all of us. (I’d not heard of him prior to this post, since O’Reilly’s a waste of time & space).
3rd off, agreed, there are more important issues to cope with.
4th off, you shouldn’t believe everything you see on the ‘boob tube’.
Thanks for sharing the stats w/us, but next shelve the attitude, wouldja?
Well said Zac Hunter!!!!!!
I have a quick question for Dave. Someone said that you said you on TV that you want all crosses off of Arlington National Cemetery too. Could you clear this up please?
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Read more on the UHP Crosses Lawsuit at the Salt Lake Tribune Newspaper’s TRIBTALK: http://www.tribtalk.com/showthread.php?t=2746
There’s much said about the crosses at Arlington Cemetary there, too.
http://www.slweekly.com/article.cfm/godless
i think this whole roadside crosses thing is bs. i mean if they want to remember them then just burry them in their back yard and put a cross up then…. i dont want to see them along the roadside!
All,
I agree, but they are now getting away with putting them by the roadside by placing them on donated or purchased private land that is situated on roadsides.
We should do the same in Austin, Texas where American Atheists was first founded & headquartered next to a major roadway or freeway with a HUGE monument honoring the founders Madalyn Murray O’Hair, Jon Murray and Robin Murray — so that their memories do not disappear into oblivion. We should put some of our money toward preserving their memories for the atheist cause.
Tenaciously Sincere,
PeskyAtheist
The O’hairs memorys will not go into oblivion! Youll see them again in Hell if you dont change your way of thinking! I think it is honorable that the crosses are there! these men gave their lives protecting these dispicable americans who dont beleive in the God that led them to this great country, that was founded upon God, and will always serve him with humble pride and love!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
coward,
food for thought for you:
http://www.400monkeys.com/God/index.html
If you are atheist and really dont beleive in god, then why are you using the number of the beast goofball! that just shows your obvious lack of intelligence! Ill be praying for your deliverence! God bless you!
coward,
It’s to confuse idiots like you.
Biblical scholars have recently determined that “the number of the beast (in which I don’t believe in anymore than the idea of any god) is actually 616. Which is meaningless anyway unless you also adhere to superstitions such as numerology.
Come back if you get out of grade school.
Better yet show us you’re not a coward by posting on a current thread.
howard,
How does 666’s ironic use of your irrational beliefs in order to mock you constitute an “obvious lack of intelligence”?
666 is an integer like any other, be it 0, 1, 7, 13, or 25. Your belief that it’s somehow more evil than other numbers is proof that you believe in foolish superstitions. Like God.
Heres a little food for your thought!
by the way, I dont think anyone is stupid or uneducated just ignorant of the real tuth. I love you all and hope the best for you, that being yeshua of course!http://whygodexists.ytmnd.com/
I wont bother you anymore, God bless