From our friends at AU:
The Rev. Jerry Falwell and his Religious Right cohorts have been complaining for weeks now about government agencies and store clerks saying ?Happy Holidays? instead of ?Merry Christmas? but it looks like Falwell forgot to tell President George W. Bush, First Lady Laura Bush and the Republican National Committee about the preferred religiously correct greeting.The White House?s 2005 holiday card is just out, and it doesn?t mention the word ?Christmas? once.The card, mailed under the auspices of the Republican National Committee and signed by the president and his wife, reads, ?With best wishes for a holiday season of hope and happiness 2005.? It also includes a passage from the Old Testament Book of Psalms.The front cover is an artist?s rendition of the White House and grounds covered with snow while the presidential pets, two dogs and a cat, frolic on the lawn. It contains no religious symbolism.
There will be a lot of talk about Xmas this year, but now we have GW on our side, doing the ungodly — saying “Happy Holidays” instead of “Merry Xmas”. Fallwell must hate that.So must Hannity and O’Reilly. We at American Atheists get a lot of calls from conservative talk shows during this season, mostly complaining about Xmas vs Holiday, completely ignoring the bigger issues. Sometimes, the issues are so silly we turn down the interview.I remember last year I did Hannity and Colmes about some mall in Florida calling their Easter Bunny the “Garden Bunny”. Not my idea, not our issue, but it certainly seemed like it on the show!I understand the need to remain topical, but come on folks, we need to worry about important things. Xmas v. Holiday is a small symptom of a major problem — the forced Christianization of America. Let’s work the cause, not the symptom.
Some points on Canada. It’s a different religious composition. Even Alberta, our Bible belt, has a composition similar to a state like Rhode Island. Most provinces have lots of Catholics, Anglicans & United Church (like your UCC, I think, not sure). Not a lot of fundamentalists, but some. Of course Quebec is a different game altogether, almost totally Catholic, but with loads of anti-clericalism.
Another thing that’s interesting. Our population is small, but more heavily concentrated in cities than yours. More urbanised.
I would say that public opinion in English provinces is similar to opinion in your blue states (massachusetts is blue, right?) Public opinion in Quebec is more like opinion in France. Sometimes when we appear anti-american we are just expressing the same opinion that a US Democrat would have, but we aim at the USA, while the Democrat aims it at Republicans, or government, etc.
Separation of church & state: we don’t have separation clause, just a freedom of expression clause, but we borrow a lot of political correctness from youse guys.
As a matter of history, there were armed rebellions in parts of Canada in 1837. The aftermath dealt quite a blow to established religion. We have a sort of de facto separation.
Canada is still in Afghanistan, and is taking on a more risky role there as we speak. Partly our way of getting out of going to Iraq. JCC, you have to realize that all the world’s leaders know who the neocons are, and think that Bush is in their clutches. Everybody thinks these guys are scarrry, but it’s not something a mainstream politician can come out and say. Even Chiraq confined himself to saying that according to Israeli intelligence, Saddam was only a 5th rate threat.
Probably he felt like saying GW shoot all your advisors. Canada’s sitting this one out, but the US was prepared initially to sit out WWI & WWII. We liberated Holland. They still like us.
In USA I call it “red (neck) states” or “Bubba belt.”
karen:
Maybe that?s because you haven?t lived among them.
?Righteous superiority and our intrusiveness???oh, please.
Bingo!
No more poorly than they treat any other American living there.
3 ? years.
ENCOURAGE YOUR CHILDREN TO JOIN THE KKK! THE WORLDS GREATEST
ORGANIZATION! THEIR FUTURE DEPENDS ON IT! IF THEY DON’T JOIN THE KKK,
THEY WILL TURN INTO NlGGERS, EVEN IF THEY ARE WHITE!
EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
reluctantatheist:
phobia – from Greek, from phobos: fearing, exaggerated fear of. Exactly what about Canadians could anyone find frightening? And why do liberal-extremists immediately apply that hackneyed misnomer to anyone who voices an opinion (that is based on fact, but you disagree with anyway) about someone or some group?
Actually, it?s just the opposite.
spanders:
I beg your pardon, but I certainly can. Granted, it took far longer than it should have, but the fact remains that this nation nearly destroyed itself with the bloodiest war it has ever fought to abolish slavery.
What about the deprivation of a child?s right to have the irrefutably needed role-model of both male and female parents in the case of ?gay? marriage? What about the right to life of the aborted child?
Socialized medicine is, by definition, of inferior quality. There are many charitable institutions in this country that provide far higher quality health-care for those who can?t afford it than the mediocre Canadian system that provides for everyone.
Canadians tend to identify themselves far more with the European mindset than that of Americans.
Learn what??how to be taxed at confiscatory rates? How to be utterly dependent on the government for our survival? How to despise another people who harbor no ill-will towards us?
It?s an attitude that exists even in the highest levels of their government:
http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2003/02/26/bastards030226
And as an irony of ironies, the American Broadcasting Company had, as its news anchorman, for years, a Canadian who never attempted to hide his contempt for America. Speaking about his mother, Peter Jennings said, ?She was pretty anti-American. And so I was, in some respects, raised with anti-Americanism in my blood or in my mother?s milk at least.?
http://www.mrc.org/cyberalerts/2002/cyb20020909.asp#1
JC:
Right, and I suppose the hundreds of thousands who immigrate to this country every year do so because they hate us?.
The Seeker:
Yep, I guess that?s why they?re the states where the population is shifting to, where the fastest economic growth is occurring and where the standard of living is increasing the fastest. Real tolerant of you to refer to them as such?
Okay, Dave,
Check out Napole?oBonaparte”s last post. Isn’t it time to hand him his walking papers?
jcc
Are you saying we’re not hated for those sterling qwualities by foreigners?
Do they seek out Americans to treat poorly, or were you really treated the same as everyone else and it just wasn’t up to American standards? What exactly, was the poor treatment?
jcc
Irrefutably needed? Says who?
What does this say to the single parent or the widowed parent? What about service men and women whose spouses are deployed overseas for long periods of time?
Also, a single loving, stable parent, or two same-sex loving stable parents would be better than a heterosexual married couple with one abusive parent.
EA, suffenus, sword_strike, any other Canadians
Why don’t y’all give us the real story?
DO Canadians hate Americans? Harbor ill will toward us? Why?
karen:
I never said America(ns) weren?t hated by foreigners. I took exception to your ?Righteous superiority and our intrusiveness? declaration as being fact.
Please don?t misunderstand, there were many individual Canadians who were quite welcoming and friendly, but there were just as many, if not more, who, upon learning of my nationality made no attempt to conceal their bigotry and contempt.
karen:
Come on karen, open your eyes. To be socially well-adjusted, it is without doubt that human children need a positive role-model of both sexes in their rearing. Just because some are unfortunate enough to have a parent killed or lost through divorce doesn?t mean that that need can go unfilled without any deleterious effects. My niece lost her father when she was 7, her mother didn?t remarry until after she graduated from high school and as a result she?s not gone to college, not developed a skill that could lift her out of her economic situation and is sexually promiscuous?traits that are irrefutably linked to the lack of a positive male role-model in her childhood.
You look up your nose at Canadians?
Okay, I havn’t read ALL 200 some comments, but here’s my opinion on what I’ve read so far:
1. Why do xtians whine and cry because “Christmas” is changed to “holiday” ?!?!?!?!?! Holiday still means “holy day” which has a religious sense to it. So xtians need to STFU and realize this country has diversity (unfortunately this diversity isn’t getting accepted enough.)
2. I think Bush’s daddy came down on him for not putting “christmas” on the c_ards. After all, his dad once said that atheists shouldn’t be considered patriots or citizens because this is “one nation under God.”
3. Who the hell received these supposed c_ards?!
4. Even if he didn’t put “christmas” on em, he put in a psalm. Only a moron could try to show that he has acceptance of all religions (and lack thereof) and then add something from the BIBLE on his c_ard. This guy must still be on crack. (You know that’s true.)
5. Why do atheists say merry solstice? The winter solstice has nothing to do in the background of atheism. Just say “happy holidays” or whatever. We don’t have to steal another religion’s holiday. Like I celebrate Christmas, but without the religious sense. Like I’ll put up a tree and give presents and all that crap no matter what religion it came from, but I don’t celebrate the religious meaning of it. I celebrate a “christmas tree” because it’s fun to decorate and it looks nice. I give and get presents because that’s the best part (you know that’s true.) And if we have a nice dinner I won’t say grace. The only people we have to thank for food are all the people working in the food and drink industry, not God. My mom and dad are religious (kinda) and they put up a manger every year. I used to help set the thing up, but I leave that up to my brother now.
So yea, whatever floats everyone’s boat.
I found an old paperback bible in my closet the other day and tore it to shreds and threw it in the fire (in the fireplace.)
Why can’t we write the word “c_ard?!”
jcc
No, YOU come on. Being without a parent does not make one promiscuous or stuck in bad economic conditions. Both of my parents grew up without one of their parents and they turned out okay.
On the other hand, I know, and have known, lots of “slutty” girls and boys, and kids of both sexes who have gone into drugs or crime and who have had the traditional two parent home.
I myself have one out of three children who was promiscuous and into drugs. He has since turned his life around.
I think you are just painting the picture you WANT to see. You just can’t believe that same sex parents can properly foster a child. Love and commitment are what it takes, not gender.
The bonaparte dude (whatever) does need to go.
Okay, the whole gender and gay marriage arguement going on:
My parents are both smokers and my dad owns a beer company. My mom loves wine. At least 3 times a week they’re drunk as f***. Our kitchen always smells after cigarette smoke, because that’s where they light up. Right now my mom is drunk and is yelling at my brother about homework.
The whole gender crap doesn’t matter. It’s the character of your parents. A teacher has pulled me aside before and asked me if I was battling with tobacco use because the smell of my clothing was so strong. I hate my parents for it smoking and drinking. It ruins everything.
If any of you are parents and smoke or drink, please, try and stop for the sake of your kids. You seriously don’t know how much this affects them.
karen:
Can you tell me that there wasn?t a positive role-model in both your parent?s lives that they looked up to?
No karen, I?m objectively looking at a picture already painted by nature herself (i.e. God). There?s a very good reason why we reproduce sexually?and this is it.
It?s not a matter of belief?it?s a matter of demonstrable reality.
Nope, love and commitment from one of each gender is what history has shown to be true over and over again.
Alexander
Of course, you are right. It works both ways. Christians view it as an effort to purge American culture of their firmly held beliefs. Purging our culture of atheists? Doesn’t work either. We all have a place at the table.
Republicans, I suppose.
Psalms are accepted by Jews, Christians and, I suppose, Muslims. Even secularists credit the Psalms for its literary qualities.
Preferred to saying, “food fight!”
Well said.
I would cautiously advise against book burning.
You may disagree with the Bible, but its impact on our culture makes it impossible to ignore. While Christians may over-exaggerate its claims, non-Christians over-estimate the damage it causes. The Bible you burned is, like every book, comprised of nothing more than ink and paper. Therapy? Perhaps. But the Mormons are giving ?em away by the thousands, perhaps millions. The can?t all be committed to the fire.
jcc
Not that I recall them mentioning. My mom lost her dad when she was 5, my dad lost his mom at about 6-7. They both lived thru the depression and were very poor before it hit. Maybe one of the neighbors my mom sold homemade doughnuts to door-to-door was a role model. Maybe for my dad, it was the very fat housekeeper who got stuck in the bathtub and had to be pried out.
They both had older siblings of the opposite sex, but it’s not right to put siblings in that role.
Even in nature, other animals exhibit homosexual behavior. We reproduce to continue the species. The natural urge is to propagate, not be exceptional parents. Besides, there are plenty of people reproducing to allow for the number of homosexual couples who want to raise children.
Again, the traditional two-parent household does not guarantee anything. Gender does not guarantee anything. Homosexual couples could satisfy “demonstrable reality” if they were allowed the chance. Actually, I believe they are already doing so, but it is off the record, since they have to be under cover.
Here’s a Sophie’s choice for you. There’s a baby no one else wants, but a gay couple is ready and willing to raise that baby. Do you leave the child to shift from foster care to foster care, or place it with the gay couple?
Jcc,
Above you made a comment about how good, in comparison, American healthcare is…
FYI, according to the WHO, the US ranks 37th in the world among industrialized nations ? in both availability and overall quality of healthcare. For the richest nation in the world, that’s utterly dismal, and embarrassing.
A person’s health shouldn’t depend on the size of their checkbook.
Seeker,
I think jcc meant instead of looking down his nose at Canadians, he looks up theirs.
To whomever suggested the link to the “answersingenesis” site (too far back up in the thread for me to find it): That was an eye-opener!. Those bible apoligists types have, up to now, slipped under my radar. They make it up as they go along, right? Reading some of the articles gave me the same feeling of pity and horrid fascination as seeing road kill.
jcc said:
More bullshit from the king of confirmation bias.
From WebMD:
http://www.webmd.com/content/Article/113/110762.htm
Now watch him come back and quote Dobson.
jcc
Since you brought up role models, what makes you think that gay couples wouldn’t have other role models around for their kids to look up to? Gay people don’t live in a vacuum. you know.
Cute story
My best friend has a les_bian couple living with her right now and her nana wanted to give them each something for Xmas. Nana called and asked “Can you give les_bians Avon products?”
Pretty much. The best thing about those sights is how they all seem to have completely different ‘answers.’ There’s no consensus at all (except that ‘God did it’), and yet they all make a habit of gleefully trumping up whatever debate is happening in the scientific community as some sort of an example of perceived ‘indecisiveness.’
I remember last year having a very heated conversation about this stuff with an incredibly ignorant fundi girl. One of her little gems was “Oh yeah? Do you know that ‘they’ have found Noah’s Ark?” I was like “Oh really? Interesting. And just were did you learn this?” Her response: “The internet!” AHAHAHAHAhahahahahahahhahaha!
Dorks.
r4d
Everything on the internet is in some way the truTh, because the Flying Spaghetti Monster is constantly making changes. Eventually, everything will fit His one great truTh. Ramen.
jcc:
Well, 1st off, I’m not a ‘liberal-extremist’, I’m a centrist. 2ndly, I said was 1/2 tempted, but note I did not (yeah, yeah, a little inference there). However, I left a door there, since you have this habit of pouncing on anything you seem to interpret as ‘positing an absolute’.
I mean, really, ‘lack the moral resolve’? I loosely interpret that as ‘minding your own damn business.’ Which is something the US doesn’t do very well.
I do love this country, but from my limited viewpoint, we tend to be egomaniacal, self-involved to the point of foolishness (occasionally, no, not ALWAYS, but a large majority of the time), & evince a superiority that is, well, less than humble.
& truth be told, you’re the 1st American I’ve ever heard (probably should get out more) who dislikes Canada (of course, I don’t watch any of the right-wing channels, so there may be more out there).
I’ve never been there, you lived there for 3 1/2 yrs., so you have an inside track of sorts into their society, mindset, etc.
Where else have you lived outside of the US? Just curious.
My VERY limited knowledge of CA, is that they’re easy-going (probably because it’s so frickin’ cold up there, is my theory), not prone to excessive violence, more diplomatic (comes from a lack of a military, another guess). I’m sure their society has its problems (whose doesn’t? Utopia is an abstract concept).
What part of CA did you live in? Don’t want to fall into the fallacy of the unrepresented sample. & what kind of specific problems/issues did you experience?
What is a ‘liberal-extremist’, BTW? I am genuinely curious if that label fits me.
I miss my funny Great Dane! Where ARE you MICHAEL? Did you fall down the well? I will send Lassie to find you. Go Lassie, find Michael!!!
Woof!
r4d: Some guy (con man) came to the town nearest me a couple of years ago claiming that a piece of some blackened material he had in a plastic box was from Noah’s ark. He claimed that the wood had turned to coal! He also claimed that he personally had found the ark.
The local rag that passes for a newspaper had a full page article with pictures, and people flocked to the local Community College where the guy displayed the specimen and sold his book about his adventures in Turkey finding the ark.
Odd that the msm didn’t pick up this astounding discovery. It should have made news world wide.