Halloween. One of my favorite holidays! Originally not Pagan, the Christians tried to take it over by moving All-Saints’ Day (like they took over the Solstice by moving Xmas). But this time, it failed — and nobody sees Christianity in Halloween.So now we have a holiday in the USA — one single holiday — that’s celebrated en masse, has it’s origin in a non-Christian religion, AND was not successfully usurped by Christianity. Therefore, many Christians think it is evil.Halloween is the most benign holiday we celebrate! Being threatened by it, or forbidding your kids from participating because of it’s pagan background is completely outrageous given the way Xmas is celebrated.My wife and I go to see Rocky Horror Live every year — what a great tradition! What are you doing for it? How do you celebrate?
Ahem…
ATTENTION THREAD BEING RE-JACKED:
I live in San Francisco, so on Halloween, most young adults (like myself) go out to Market street which is closed off and we all just gawk at each other. Thousands of people turn out, its a lot of fun. I do miss trick or treating tho. Drinking and debauching are fun as an adult, but nothing beats being 12 and running around in a costume at night.
jim: unfortunately, I know very little about Freemasonry. Which of the FF were Masons, BTW?
The Darwin’s B-day as holiday is indeed rich in possibilities, but when is it, & how are nat’l holidays created? Plus, we have to find some1 who’d be able to squeeze it in under the radar (borrowing a tactic from the R’s, no less!).
How about the publishing date of Origin of species instead of his birthday. I do not want to deny Darwin any greatness, but what is important to the atheist about Darwin is his contribution to Science and naturalism, not his birth right? Let’s celebrate the ideas.
Both ideas tho, of consecrating an individual’s birth, or a text, kinda give me the creeps.
Wouldn’t a Copernican holiday be in order too then? I wonder which is more fundamental?
FYI
Origin of Species was first published November 24th, 1859…right around Thanksgiving for the US. Darwin’s B-day is February 12th, 1809…right around Valentines day.
I just read something about an “Atheist Pride Day” being celebrated in Minnesota. Ah.. here it is:
http://kelecableathevo.blogspot.com/2005/10/atheist-pride-day-part-1.html
Sounds like a good idea to me.
ra:
http://www.bessel.org/foundmas.htm
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/thomas_paine/origin_free-masonry.html
39 men signed the US constitution, 13 were freemasons including George Washington.(according to Paul M. Bessel)
I must apologize once again as I earlier characterized Freemasonry as a religion. I feel I should qualify that now by stating that I believe that freemasonry was derived from a religion and that while for most masons it would appear to be a club with unique traditions and customs, for those who ascend to higher rankings within the organization more of the history of its religious heritage are revealed while not necessarily manifesting those qualities in practice. This becomes much clearer when you read from Thomas Paine’s essay (website above) (who was not a freemason) about the origins of Freemasonry. I find the significance of this knowledge to be this: That those who were freemasons and also a party to the creation of this new nation had an ulterior motive for protecting religious diversity(or just a more compelling and personal reason to do so). According to Thomas Paine, freemasony and xtianity were compatible and many freemasons were also xians, they were not mutually exclusive, to the contrary. But a freemason would understand that without the secrecy of their organization, they would be persecuted as is evidenced by their own history. Armed with that knowledge, if you were in their shoes, would you not work to create a society in which you did not have to fear persecution simply because of what you believed? I’m not saying anything profound here, this is just a simple observation.
And sorry once again for hijacking the halloween thread. I just came back from trick-or-treating with my 2 kids (what a beautiful night to go out too) and then watched 3 back to back episodes of “medium” on nbc and here I am.
Jim Engele
Orange, MA
ps
from wikipedia:
Freemasonry accepts members from almost any religion, including Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, and so forth. While atheists and agnostics are unreservedly accepted in Lodges working in the Continental tradition, most Masonic Lodges have required, since the early 19th century, that a candidate must profess a belief in a Supreme Being.
It seems that “since the early 19th century” the xians awoke to the fact that religious diversity was indeed protected by the constitution and began to work to block out atheists and agnostics by any means available.
jim:
No apologies necessary. Your info has proven most enlightening. It sheds a great deal of light on an angle I was previously unaware of.
Thank you. Sincerely.
Keep up the good work.
Also from wikipedia on deism:
“…The classical view is that the universe was created by a God who then makes no further intervention in its affairs.”
“…in creating the world, God became the world and does not exist as a separate entity from it; while some hold that God intervenes only as a subtle and persuasive force in the universe.”
“…The classical view of an impersonal and abstract God has caused many to claim that deism is “cold” and amounts to atheism.”
Deists were one step away from atheism. Thank you Darwin for taking that last step for all of us.
I guess I can’t help but think of freemasonry and deism as having something profound in common. Deism is simply a belief system without any social structure but freemasonry is a social structure built around a belief system that appears to be deist in nature. Deists and freemasons alike were able to reject religion and pay lip service to it without any ethical dilemna. George was one step away from atheism and yet could still attend church with no inner conflict. It was an enlightened age!
btw, my colleague at work, his wife has been hanging out with fundy conservative types and she didn’t allow her 2 children to participate in any halloween activities. Instead she took them to a church youth function. Earlier today my friend said he was going to go home early from work and take the kids around the block real quick. I don’t know how it turned out yet, he’s probably in the doghouse. Sad.
Jim Engele
Orange, MA
I’ll try to post some pics of our party either today or tomorrow. The highlight of the evening is when I fell into my own pond in full costume. Yes, a good time was had by all.
That is very sad jim.
My wife and I got home from work at around six and our neibor told us thjat the kids had started trick-or-treating at around 4. We gave candy by the bucket but got stuck with some. My wife and I will have to eat our share as well it seems… (I’m sure she bought too much candy on purpose, I love her so much
Who said haloween was just for kids!
Halloween is going to live forever. I went up and celebrated the Halloween weekend at UCSB and had a blast. 20,000 college students on one street dressed in costume (I saw three people dressed as jesus) and everybody was having a awesome time. Also I want to thank this website for helping me through all those crucial moments when I am attacked by my friends bible beating mother. You have to love those born again christians……not really.
My wife and I just spent Halloween in Salem, MA. Had a great time associating with a lot of fellow heathens.
I love Salem! I was raised in Marblehead and spent many a night at Pickering Wharf and Salem Willows.
Great place to be on Halloween.
the planet saturn
the planet saturn