Looks like New Orleans is in for it. I hope the forecasters are wrong, but it doesn’t look good. Perhaps fundies will say something stupid like “God is smiting all the fun people”, like when Pat Robertson predicted Hurricanes at Disney World as punishment for Disney allowing gay benefits. You can be sure there will be “miracles” of survival, but nobody will mention the miracle of a category-5 hurricane hitting a great city head-on.I love New Orleans. Good luck down there!
On Sunday night, Chris Matthews on MSNBC said while watching people marching up the ramps into the Superdome: “This reminds me of Noah’s Ark. People trying to save themselves from the coming flood.”
Well, I nearly had a vein break in my head.
Who knew Matthews was old enough to have witnessed people boarding the Ark?
I just used my supreme power as God of this Blog to delete a Jesus post. PLEASE! If you need to preach, GO ELSEWHERE! All preachy posts will be deleted without mercy by the all-powerful Ruler of the Blog, with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm, er… finger.
This is a copy/paste (a direct quote) from Dave, as in Dave who created this blog (April 2005 archives).
I have been laboring under the misapprehension this place is for atheists and similar free people. Hurricanes notwithstanding (my mind is oppressed with the knowledge of what happened in the Gulf), too much good K is being wasted here on xian dross.
Wow, this IS almost turning in2 UR own post, YTD! LOL.
Some observations, if U will;
“I choose to believe based on the experiences in my life, my upbringing and the need to feel connected to something larger than myself.”
In continuance on GOS’ observation, “human are essentially pack animals driven by instinct and self preservation.”, I believe that is it this that causes us to seek something ‘larger than our/myself.” Whether it is evolution (or divine mandate: I think it is the former), as pack animals/herd minds, we R hard-wired to gravitate to the larger group, so it is no large surprise that we have this instinctive desire towards a collective that transcends the individual. This, combined w/the fear of darkness that we inherited from our ancestors, is why religion exerts such an attraction for (most of) us. It is the Greeks we owe a great deal to, as Hellenism shifted the focus from the community to the individual (& we can see that transition in the shift from the OT to the NT).
Also:
“I found that uttering these prayers many times influenced my thought process and made me more peaceful and active towards non-violence.”
All I can say to any individual, Xtian, Atheist, Buddhist or otherwise, is outstanding! One of the greatest men to walk this earth, Gandhi, once said, “You must be the change you want to see.”
billh: very well, what would U have us do? I have (in other threads) suggested that everyone (including different non-Xtian faiths as well as Atheists) march to DC on school prayer. We R 30 million strong, & growing. I am w/U (albeit more gently, my friend): it is time something was done. However, while U may be right about all the negativity being shown here, it is difficult. R U an atheist? Have U ‘come out’ 2 your relatives & friends? I have.
& unfortunately, it is a sad fact in this culture, that the negative IS more focused on than the positive. An atheist relief fund is a grand concept. An atheist outreach program again, is a wonderful idea. But, alas, application varies from theory (& widely, from my brief stay on earth). One of the problems is fear: because (& excuse me, YHD, I am sorry, but it is fact), the xtians have a low threshold for tolerance towards anything new, & especially 2 something that seems (or is) contrary 2 their belief. Note the court cases about school prayer. (see JANE DOE v. SANTA FE INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT, 1995. at http://www.medill.northwestern.edu/~secure/docket/mt/archives/000912.php)In many instances, the plaintiffs w/held their names, for fear of retribution. Unfortunately, retribution tends to B part & parcel of the Xtian party line.
So, billh, what is it U suggest? Curious & listening.
reluctantatheist: Got to go to work, so I will make this quick. One of the reasons I come here is for ideas on what we could do. I have not found much. Yesterday was a bad day, and unfortunately it showed on my last entry. I am generally a very happy and pleasant guy and people are shocked to find that I am an Athiest. My family, friends and coworkers all know I am an Atheist. I have heard on several occasions, “How could you be an Atheist?” I will get back later on some ideas.
Atheists are already doing plenty, and there are already plenty of atheist organizations…
http://www.atheistalliance.org/
It’s just a matter of how active you want to be. I swore to myself on September 11, 2001 that I would never let the religiously fervent get away with ridiculous statements. If someone wants to talk religion with me, then we talk…but I don’t go looking for confrontation.
As for atheists being brutal to Christians, I think it comes from an intellectually drop-jawed viewpoint of religion. Atheists are dumbfounded by fantasy-based belief systems, and are therefore frustrated with anyone who expouses their belief as truth. To me, it’s like a parent straightening out a child.
When we examine many religions, we see that they are rife with potential violence. Hatred of “the other”, no matter how much it is denied, is a staple of many religions. Of course, many will say “my church doesn’t play that”, without noting the irony of competing “truths”.
Christians don’t have to feel special when it comes to getting bashed by atheists. I’d do the same for any other ridiculous belief system, should a person of that system wish to converse with me. These folks need to see how thier culture is leading to really stupid activities among some in thier flock.
Katrina is the worst storm that has ever come to the USA. I’m looking in to heading down there to help, since I’m not too busy at this time. Maybe I’ll load my old pickup with water and haul it down.
A rope leash
Thanks for the address on Atheistalliance.org Looks promising. I’ll bookmark it and see what they’ve got.
A good read: Freethinkers, A History of American Secularism, by Susan Jacoby. Very illuminating. History my teacher never taught me.
The Guv of Louisiana has declared today a day of prayer.
billh:
as I think your comment is on point to what I was getting at. What can atheists do to achieve their goals? I think a big goal would be the separation of church and state in government. As a christian, my suggestion is to leverage the strength and numbers of sympathetic christians towards your own goals. There are a good number of them out there, they are just not as vocal. Check out http://www.au.org. Next you can use organizations that support similar ideas like http://www.workingassets.com/. I use working assets for all my business and personal phone.
Dangerman, John Hostettler is completely out of his tree.
I just wanted to leave with giving thoughts about strategies. NOW I’m outta here for a while.
I’ve noticed several Governors now publicly calling for a day of prayer….
…if they feel they must, wouldn’t it have made more sense to call for a day of prayer BEFORE Katrina arrived?
It’s unfortunate that they feel it necessary to ask all of America to partake in their religious rituals. And in my opinion, for political gain by appeasing their religious voters.
billh,
I must disagree about Atheists being negative. This is a forum that allows us an outlet for our frustrations. Of course much of this blog will be negative.
But, I do agree about taking action. I think the voice of reason has been quiet for too long here in America.
Elected officials asking for a day of prayer; what happened to the separation between church and state? Did Katrina wash it away.
lets clarify somethings
1) i never said that Atheists are not or can not be moral, I have several very moral atheist friends.
2) I never said that atheists can not or do not help in times of need.
3) I do not agree that an atheist would not make a good president.
I don’t think that a persons religion makes them good or bad, moral or immoral…
I do think that one big reason that atheists are fighting an up hill battle is because of the negativity, and the majority of their time is spent fighting “the other side” if atheists as well as christians could personally take ownership of their own “worldview” and then just learn to work together instead of trying to convince the other he/she is wrong, then and only then will this country be back as the ultimate nation! That is what our forefathers accomplished…and that is what has slipped through our fingers!
we should all pray or “HOPE” (thats all prayer really is) that our fellow Americans in NO will be able to get back to a normal way of life as quickly as possible, and we should all do whatever we can to help!
D Bryant
DBryant,
My guess is that you?re in a small minority in the religious community when you write that prayer is the same as “hope”. I believe most people of faith believe when they pray, they are communicating with their God?trying to pressure it into supernaturally fixing the situation.
If that wasn’t the case, the publicly elected officials would call for a day of “hope” rather than prayer.
I can totally see what DBryant is saying. If we as atheists can get off of what we are and start doing what we can do, our image is only going to improve. We can be gruff and surly as we go about doing good deeds, can’t we?
http://www.atheistcharity.org
New Orleans is not a joke at all, and if blame is to be placed, we should look no further than the Head Believer Himself, who signed off on cutting funds for levee construction so that he could have his Middle Eastern resource war.
http://www.phxnews.com/fullstory.php?article=24745
Blame God or Nature, but it’s only a distraction. This storm was known to have been coming for many years and the effect of a storm of this type has been speculated about for a long time. Common sense will tell you that levees must be maintained and strengthened. We have only ourselves to blame for the flooding in New Orleans.
To take it further, hurricanes happen down there, and by now one would think that some manner of construction more solid than sticks and bricks would have become fashionable.
This is a disaster that could go on for months. I agree with those who say we should all do what we can to help out.
Is it even realistic to think that New Orleans can get “back to normal”? There is so much devastation, and it is going to be so long before cleanup can even begin. Assuming they can dam the levee breaches successfully, then pump the water out, THEN the long process of recovering the dead will begin. And only then can they begin to clean up. The infrastructure is gone. Even larger buildings still standing will have been sitting with so much water and waste in them they will most likely have to be destroyed. The sheer magnitude of rebuilding would certainly afford jobs for a long period. Imagine, a modest house with a full crew takes about 3 months to complete; that’s ONE house.Are businesses going to wait to rebuild when they could go somewhere else? Not to mention the fact if they rebuild without major changes in the levees and drainage systems, the situation is the same for the next big storm to come through.
I feel overwhelmed by this and i’m not even directly affected by it. I feel like I felt watching the news reports of 9/11. The human loss of life is not as widespread, and there is no one to blame, but the catastrophe is just as heartfelt.
What do you guys think? Will they, can they rebuild N.O. where it was?
Saintperle
Forget Cindy Sheehan and/or various others — GOD is giving aid & comfort to the enemy
While the post-Katrina scenes in Mississippi and Louisiana are reminiscent of Hieronymous Bosch with automatic weapons and helicopters, and the world is sympath…
Dbryant: I find UR views about atheists in general to be very enlightened, & appreciate them. However, I fear U R in the minority amongst Xtians.
4 instance, HW Bush (1989?) stated, “I don’t think of atheists as citizens. This is, after all, 1 nation under God.” Falwell (yeah, a nutter, but a good bud of the Shrub in Office), stated that “If UR not a Born-again Xtian, UR a failure as a human being.”
I recently engaged in an email debate w/an apologist, & he told me that he equates atheists w/Hitler, Stalin, Mao, & Pol Pot (I know, I know, guilt by association, painting w/a broad brush), and, ergo, he feels that Atheism is a & I quote, “So, you will not be amazed (I hope) to find I actually believe atheism to be morally despicable, contemptible, shameful, loathsome and vile religion” (we were arguing about the definition). We also have good old Holding, on Tec-tonics.org, who frequently attacks Freethinkers (including Thomas Paine). W/the advent of the culture wars, it IS hard to find positive spins on each other.
I 4 1 espouse the concept of live & let live. But your people (no pejorative intended) seem deadset on ‘converting’ our otherwise secular nation, & (as I have stipulated elsewhere), do NOT have a wonderful track record in re: tolerance & broad-mindedness. This may be changing, but ’soft chains are hardest to break’.
I think I speak 4 everyone (& pardon me if I do not: please correct me if that is so), when I say, that I wish that the Xtians would PLEASE keep their abstracts to themselves, & stay the $%(#*^ out of politics, & their efforts at revisionism. I am wholeheartedly in favor of the open exchange of ideas, but when the debate becomes dangerously lopsided, & acrimonies fly, & the RR decides that religion is the ‘foundation of law in this country’, I’m afraid that we’re in danger of becoming a fascist theocracy.
& that, my friend, is NOT how this country was built. We made a compact w/ourselves, not w/the ‘Creator’, not w/God (pick UR noun of choice).
Positive? I’d love to be that. I am, as a rule, a positive person. But when the ruling class begins the piece-meal subjugation of my country via religious grounds, I feel I have cause to be nervous. I have cause to be afraid. I have cause to be negative.
“It is the duty of the patriot to defend his country from its government,” – Thomas Paine.
Pardon me 4 droning on. That is my nickel’s worth. Spend it freely.
Forget Cindy Sheehan and/or various others — GOD is giving aid & comfort to the enemy
While the post-Katrina scenes in Mississippi and Louisiana are reminiscent of Hieronymous Bosch with automatic weapons and helicopters, and the world is sympathetic to the plight of the locals, various hostile members of the Arab-Muslim world — the Sunni world — are speaking in a way as sanctimonious and vicious as if they were the Mullah-versions of Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell.
“Those people are suffering Allah’s wrath for supporting George Bosh’s crime.”
“These are what they call ‘Red States,’ where people voted for Bosh, that Allah has chastened.”
“Do we need more proof that Allah has cursed the American people? He struck down the Shi’a infidels in Baghdad* and the American infidels around the great port of the south. “
We may have only one alternative left to us — call on the American Atheists in our hour of need. As the friend who steered me intheir direction once said: “People find this hard to accept, but God loves atheists.”
* Trampled, crushed against barricades or plunging into the Tigris River, more than 700 Shiite pilgrims died Wednesday when a procession across a Baghdad bridge was engulfed in panic over rumors that a suicide bomber was at large.
Most of the dead were women and children, Interior Ministry spokesman Lt. Col. Adnan Abdul-Rahman said. It was the single biggest confirmed loss of life in Iraq since the March 2003 invasion. Sabah Ali, a senior official in the Health Ministry, said 719 were killed and 383 injured.
DBryant
Of course atheists are “fighting” with the Christian opponents. That is the majority which is trying to force their belief-in-the-supernatural lifestyle on us.
It is the lot in life of the minority to fight for its rights. IMO, atheists are exceedingly skilled in owning our worldview. We work side by side with people of all faiths every day. It is when our rights are violated that we get noticably negative. Otherwise, no one knows who we even are.
What was accomplished by our forefathers has been hijacked by Christians. They think what was written was for them alone.
When there is no longer any in-fighting among Christian groups, and YOU ALL work together without trying to say this one or that one is wrong, then….well, nevermind, that’s never going to happen.
Saintperle
“We may have only one alternative left to us — call on the American Atheists in our hour of need. As the friend who steered me intheir direction once said: “People find this hard to accept, but God loves atheists.”"
I’m sorry, maybe I’m just dense today. Could you elaborate on this? Why does this point appear in the middle of your quotes?
You definatly speak for me reluctantatheist. I’m all for xtians thinking what they want, but they push their beliefs on others, which is not right. Just imagine if we took up their tactics. Going door to door asking them to try out atheism. Walking down the street forcing people to take flyers about how atheism is the right path. Glaring at anyone who wears cross jewelry. It would be crazy! And the worst part is, we can’t tell them what they’re turning the government into because they think it’s a good thing! I wish they could just step back and see all the conflict that religion causes, and stop it! That’s how we get world peace, end religion, or make sure everyone has the same religion, like Brave New World, but then that wouldn’t be very good anyways.
Dangerman
You remind me of one of the best song ever written:
Imagine
Imagine there’s no heaven,
It’s easy if you try,
No hell below us,
Above us only sky,
Imagine all the people
living for today…
Imagine there’s no countries,
It isnt hard to do,
Nothing to kill or die for,
No religion too,
Imagine all the people
living life in peace…
Imagine no possesions,
I wonder if you can,
No need for greed or hunger,
A brotherhood of man,
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world…
You may say Im a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you’ll join us,
And the world will live as one.
-John Lennon
Could you imagine a better atheist anthem?
It looks like both the Christian God and Allah are bored:
769 Dead, 307 Hurt in Iraq Bridge Stampede (on a religious pilgrimage)
http://news.yahoo.com/fc/world/iraq
sword—
“Killing for God” by Eric Idle:
“Killing for God
Is thrilling for you.
Each drop of blood you spill
Is by the good Lord’s will.
If they don’t believe
Then why should you grieve?
Just take their breath away
And give them death today.
God wants those bastards dead
So shoot them through the head.
It’s atheist blood you shed
When you’re killing for God.”
Sorry, I couldn’t resist posting it,
You folks who post on this blog are great!!!…I enjoy reading all the post….I extend that compliment to even our christain freinds….afterall….who doesnt want piece on earth and goodwill towards all women and men….now back to pointing out my frustrations with the spirit world….or as Dbryant would say, why are you so negative
My heart goes out to all effected by the storm….saying that is like saying a prayer…doesnt do jack crap to help
The comparison that Chris Matthews made to Noah’s Arc….
If it were a true comparison, there would only have been one family of humans, and 2 of each animal! many of the people “kindly” evacd and left their dogs chained in the backyard!
Also, if they had heard the call, the people would have gotten in their personal arcs and gotten the hell outta Dodge!
you brought tears to my eyes sword_strike. lol. I’ve always thought that was a great atheist song. I remember my english teacher in high school played it for us and said it was a perfect example of what our lesson was going to be like. I don’t know what the hell she was talking about because it had nothing to do with anything we learned but hey.
Back with more hurricane stuff, I live in a small Oregon town, and all the stores and even the library and police station and high school have signs that say things like “god bless new orleans” and “pray for the survivors” aand stuff. I don’t think god wanted to bless new orleans…or maybe allah stole the remote control from god and changed the metaphorical channel. who knows?
Chris is a bit dense. He also said “I didn’t see this coming”. Refering to the catastrophe. Other people did see it coming and there was an immediate responce to start helping out. What do these talking heads do? Think up stupid comments?
Pay attention closely to how this goes and you can expect the same response in your own town in the event of some type of disaster. Everyone needs to start taking a little more personal responsibility for their own personal safety. Most of these people do not have water or food. Everyone should have at least some way of purifying water. This is going to go on for the next 6 months and if they are really luky New Orleans will be back in business in 1 year.
You can never be too prepared. Start today doing something in your own community. FEMA has specific guidlines and strategies that you can follow. They already invented the wheel and you can save a lot of time by following their guidelines.
Pray on your own time, We got work to do . JIM
PS all the comments on this thread are OK by me they are in fact what gives this blog its unique flavor.
Alright…the word has come down. A RR organisation has announced that New Orleans was destroyed because of a gay celebration scheduled to be held on Labor Day.
I may not have been clear: the celebration was to have be held in New Orleans.
Reluctantatheist & Dangerman: A suggestion would be for someone that is qualified to start up an “American Atheist Charity Organization” or something where we can donate to a cause such as to aid the people on the Gulf Coast. Have the packages clearly stamped with something like “American Atheist – Helping to make the world a better place to live” or something corny like that. I don?t? have the time or resources, but if the American Atheist website were to put up a link to Charity organization, I feel most of us would contribute. I lived on the Mississippi coast for 7 years and have many friends and relatives there. I have not been able to get in touch with any of them. I know one of them is gone, but no idea what is going on with the rest of them. My friends are resourceful and probably don?t need help, but many others there can use some help. Most are good people and are in dire straights.
DVanWechel: I agree, Atheists are not negative people but I sometimes feel that this is the only message getting out to the people. I saw a survey the other day where in the list of who would you vote for to be the president of the United States, of course it was a Christian at the top, followed by most major religions, including someone from Islam, and guess who was at the bottom, Atheists. I feel even though Madalyn Murray O’Hair was right in her positions, she did not have the charisma that to represent us. She was from my view point very crass. Ellen Johnson is a different story but Madalyn Murray O?Hair is what people seem to remember.
I also feel this is a good place to vent your frustrations. It would be nice to have a balance also.
Yellowhousedesign: Normally I am not so vocal either. I will check out the web site later. I have some Christian contacts that are sympathetic to our cause and believe in the separation of church and state. But there are many more that are not.
Reluctantatheist: I have read many of your posts and find we share many common feelings. I have a question for you. Your ID ?reluctantatheist? speaks of an untold story. How did you choose the name ?reluctantatheist?? If you don?t mind that is.
Rosemary
Those people are the most mentally ill on the flat planet. Right along with the zealous moslems who also blame it on god. The real problem is that some of their minions truly believe in that kind of shit. The hand of GOD?? gimmmmeee a break.
jimmerone
Not so much the HAND of god as it was a certain FINGER…
Yeah, he stuck it to those people. But he must really hate people who live in mobile homes. I reckon I’m next. That’s why I left the wheels on. LOL JIM
Jimmerone
As it has been proved that there is an inverse relationship between the number of pirates and global warming, I think the relationship between tornadoes/hurricanes and mobile homes has also been proved. God hates trailers.
Lyrics to the country western song I’ll never write, titled, Trailer Park Blues:
I live down by the railroad track
In a house with wheels …
billh: all good suggestions.
I’ll give the short version of my handle (if there is such a thing as a ’short’ anything in middle-age).
Beg. of Jan., unemployed 4 5 mos., feeling a little in need of hope, a friend & I engaged in a series of theological discussion via phone. At that point, I had a good working knowledge of the HB (being a voracious reader, I rather enjoyed the poetry of the KJV), but a lukewarm belief in it. Gave it some credence. Prior to that, I’d believed that the US was based on Biblical premises, 1 day, decided 2 test that. WRONG! 2-3-4 yrs later, my friend (Born-again, some 20 yrs. now), because of our phone talks, sent me McDowell’s ETDAV + a KJV. If he’d only sent the KJV, I might not be telling U this. Caught something in JM’s book, investigated, found it full of doggie doo. Began researching. Became an atheist B4 I read Paine’s Age of Reason (w/a little help from Voltaire). Said friend has recently said he regretted it, as I am now a complete non-theist. We still R friends, still debate, but now I know more about the bible than he does! (Who said irony was dead?)
There will be a longer version, more fleshed out, on my website coming soon (shameless plug! Sorry, David!)
karen -
“If your roof is in the middle of UR lawn…U might be a redneck.”
-Jeff Foxworthy
I apologize 4 that last post. Bad taste. Sorry.
reluctantatheist: Thought it was something like that. Glad you are still friends. Similar story here.
Here is another suggestion. A blog for Aetheist community activities. Get togethers, camping trips, trips to the beach, you get the idea. Gotta run.
Karen,
You crake me up
“Not so much the HAND of god as it was a certain FINGER”
please forgive, i mean excuse, my spelling….its crack me up
The kooks have come out en mass. Germany offers to help and then one of their gov’t oficials says Katrina is Bush”s fault because of global warming.???
The real idea is that no one or thing caused this, it just happened . It is a fact of NATURE. It happens on a regular basis and we as a society have been preparing for it as well as we could. I personally believe that the religions have had a negative influence on preparations. The levee system itself is suspect and seemingly could have been built better. Built sufficiently that “all we can do now is pray”. Well they could have been built to withstand a direct hit. Failure is both a symptom of neglect for the local citizenry and a lack of regard for good engineering practices. The most common failures are the levee systems. I wonder if this isn’t the type o disastrous outcome that we can expect from children being taught ID instead of or in addition to evolution?
Why is it considered miraculous when One child survives and the rest of the family is washed away?
JIM
Karen NAtasha How true.
I think this whole blog is confusing. I found it by searching for stuff about the hurricaine and saw the name NoGodBlog.com, sounded interesting. I figured it’s an atheist safe haven from god related discussions, but it seems 95% of your comments are about God, people’s perceptions of God, or ironies you see from the simple belief in God.
It’s called NoGodBlog.com. Instead of talking only about God. Why not have No God in the Blog?
Well, confused, I can see UR reasoning. Am unsure, however, if U were seeking non-Xtian news sources? If I may speak up on this, some of us were Christians (Xtians, xians), & thusly were impacted in no little way by the dominance of said religion in our culture (mostly negative). In some ways, since we are viewed as pariahs by a large % of the US, some of us (& I am speaking 4 myself) come here to discuss experiences, compare stories, flesh out our ideas, etc. If we were accepted & tolerated by the majority of Americans, there’d be little need 4 us to come here. The prevalent Culture Wars that R going on impact us in no little way, from the schools to the government. If everything was gravy 4 atheists, then U’d see very little activity on these blogs. We’re nervous, you see, & 4 good reason.
Hope that clarifies something 4 U.
They’ve announced that they have completed the mission of getting everyone out who was alive and willing to get out, and now they’re going to start with the recovery of bodies.
I wouldn’t want to have that job. Found out yesterday that our town police chief has been called to go down to NO to help with this. I don’t know if you have to have some kind of special training. He was also called to do the same thing in Thailand. What gruesome duty. The ironic thing is, he’ll be staying at a funeral home while he’s down there.
So he’ll be recovering the dead by day and sleeping with them at night.
There must be some kind of psychological training you go through for this kind of work.
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