Pat Robertson on Venezuela’s Chavez: ?”I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it…We have the ability to take him out”Ex 20:13 — “Thou shalt not Kill”Yes, murder is something we ought to do, sometimes. So much for “Moral Absolutes” of the 10 Commandments. Break a commandment, but don’t ever be gay. Or an Atheist. Or a feminist. Gee — it’s almost as if he is actually picking and choosing when and when not to obey his Bible. Almost as if he doesn’t REALLY think the bible is the perfect word of God, hmmm??? Almost.
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Well said, NOFish. The 1st amendment does indeed cover the famous & infamous alike. However, there R clauses that prevent certain situations (yelling fire in a crowded theater, inciting to riot). But unless some wingnut takes a potshot at Chavez & is a follower, guess we’re outta luck.
Dangerman: the only prob w/that scenario, is that he’s built a politically powerful org., & when he passes, wellllll…Nature abhors a vacuum, as they say.
I apologize for using an ad hominem w/PR, & UR right, NYD. I usually refrain from such things: sometimes I get a trifle upset.
As a military member for 20+ years, I’m tired of ill -minded, right wing clergy that can verbalize comments to the masses that specifically support only their agenda. Conveience in flipping the coin when best suited for themselves. Church and State must be severed. I support my Country,Constitution, mankind and myself.
There is zero difference between Pat Robertson and Osama Bin Laden. Instigating a war or violence is the same no matter what. Rudolph got consecutive life sentences. He killed many including a cop and wounded over 100. I wonder what Pat thinks of him? Apparently it’s too barbaric to kill a white christian murderer but it’s OK to kill people from other countries. WTF is wrong with these brown nosers?
Could it be that they suffer from the GOD sickness? Like I posted previously about the two pats. These guys really are rounding up Russin jews and sending them back to Israel. At the sme time saying that the end is near. We have a right to be protected from insane assholes like Pat Robertson. An apology is insufficient. He needs to be incarcerated. For threatening a foreign leader.
The christians wonder why we have such disdain for their beliefs. When they continue to bow down to morons and idiots who lack honor and integrity. I’ve pissed more integrity than Pat Roberson will ever have. RAnt rant rant. JIM
Gun of Sod said:
A rope leash, I was concerned by your comment:
“Karen…it would be wrong to kill those folks, but if it meant that our young would not have to go to war, then I am all for them getting dead somehow.”
I think maybe my point is misunderstood. If our leaders had to fight and die in conflicts they created, then there would be no conflicts. Everything would get sorted out real peaceful like.
When a country spends trillions on armanents, it not really for protection, as the world is now finding out with the USA. Yes, we declare war on everything…drugs, poverty, terrorism…but we never seem to conquer these enemies. The reason for this is because war is a racket. It makes certain people quite rich. These rich fucks should die in their own wars, or get dead otherwise, before our young die. It only seems fair to me.
As for the whole world reading this blog, I really could not care less. Not all atheist are the same, just like everyone else. Free speech means free speech for everyone, or it doesn’t mean free speech at all.
Get this: We are pariah. The vast majority of folks think we are “evil”. Why should I care what else they think we are? I rarely say anything I’m ashamed of, and if I do, I expect I’ll be called on it and asked to recant or explain.
In any case, I gotta be me. If anyone thinks that it is fair that a young person whose life has barely begun should go and fight in a war while others get rich from the war, then I disagree with that person. No biggie, but if anyone wants to argue about it, a rope leash may or may not be able to find the time, just like anyone else.
Pat Robertson sticks his foot in his mouth on a regular basis. Just from watching him, I suspect that some of his marbles are chipped. He is only taken seriously by some folks, and he is not in a position to be of any real danger.
GWB, on the other hand, does present a serious threat to the populace at large. More people are seeing this everyday. I happen to believe he is unfit, and should be removed, along with the rest of his administration. While I’d like to see this done peacefully, I don’t really care and I don’t think it can be done peacefully given the spinelessness of our Legislature and Judiciary.
He will go down someday, and I sincerely hope he doesn’t take the rest of us with him…
This reminds me of “All quiet on the Western Front”. One of the German soldiers who had been in his WW1 trench for four years suggested putting all the generals and politicians from both sides in a field and letting them fight it out. Whoever was left standing would be declared the winner – and the soldiery would be happy with that.
I see nothing wrong with that concept!
Anyone hear about the police action at the Utah rave party last week?
That’s what is happening to the USA, with the full consent of our leaders.
Check this:
http://counterpunch.org/albert08232005.html
I wholoheartedly agree with Jimmerone as to incarcerating anybody that makes a threat not only a duly elected foreign leader, but to anybody who thinks differently from them. I also believe that religion in itself has caused more death, destruction and hatred than any other disease in human history, and therefore it should be erradicated. The black plague of the middle ages pales in comparison with the death and destruction that have been done in the name of god. Notice how the more developed a society is, the less credence religion has in its operation? The arabs where up to a point very enlightened compared to the backward Europeans of the middle ages. Then they discovered mahoma!… Now the US is discovering “jesus”.
About the Utah raid:
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Dance_party_broken_up_by_police_in_Utah%2C_USA
I was recently hassled by little blonde security cops for dancing at an Elvis Costello concert. I couldn’t help it. I was also restrained at a Rolling Stones concert about fifteen years ago. I was just dancing!
These folks sure know how to take the fun out of life. I never thought it would come to a military-style clampdown, though.
Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country!
Pat is definitely someone I would advise against listening to…but as for hypocrisy, we all have personal experience. None of us display true loyalty to the things we say we believe in and love…everyone of us is a lying hypocrite…
To all: My comments re: Robertson, Jackson, Stern and the First Amendment.
My point was not that Robertson should be arrested, fined, censored. Rather it was that Jackson & Stern should not. It is a sad day when sex is taboo but calling for assasination is ok. All should be covered by free speech.
Without free speech for Robertson, we would not get to have a fine time reviling him, because we wouldn’t know what he has to say.
When the Founding Dads put free speech in the First, they talked about the free marketplace of ideas. Now that’s one free market I support. The Dads wanted bad ideas out there as well as good. If these folks don’t say stupid things, how are we to know who they are?
My only regret is that the press treats this prez, and all prezes with kid gloves. You have to go to non-traditional sources to see stupid “bushisms.” If I ran the circus, GWB’s stupid statements would be the sound bite every night, but, unfortunatly, the press thinks it has some kind of civic duty to treat the prez with respect. I say, let him earn it like everybody else.
Here’s part of a letter to this morning’s Green Bay Press-Gazette (8-25-05).
“A few weeks ago I found on my doorstep a flyer from ‘Kid’s Krusade 05,’ an evangelical outreach effort of the Interfaith Fellowship and the Salvation Army of Green Bay.
“‘Be a soldier for Jeusus,’ they prod, under a picture of a soldier in full battle dress, ammo bandolier flying and rifle at ready. Uniforms will be provided for the ‘exciting Bible training,’ complete with ‘dog tags, T-shirts and other fun soldier stuff.’ Catch the bus, they say, for ‘drill games, battle skits,’ all with a ‘movin’ music’ soundtrack.”
One poster to this forum suggested that we’re overgeneralizing from Pat Robertson to all evangelical Christians. From what I see, Robertson is very representative of the evangelical mindset.
Re: Kid’s Krusade
Wow! If the SWAT teams raid that gatering like they did in Utah, kids are gonna die!
I am all for the first amendment, free speech and the market place of ideas and ideals. That is what makes a “democracy” work. Where I would draw the line is when that free speech leads to grave bodily harm or death of another human being. By that I mean speech like that of the mullahs and preachers that incite their gullible audiences to murder an otherwise innocent civilian. History is quite full of good intentions gone horribly wrong just by someone taking a quote out of context. Bear in mind that I am not asking for censorship of any kind, but for responsability for those that incite others to do their bidding.
To sm: I’m all for making yelling Theatre! in a crowded fire off limits, but “inciting to riot” is a slippery slope. Who is the judge? Don’t the rioters have any responsibility for their actions? “Officials” of one soprt or another have tried to use that agrument to silence everyone from MLK to the KKK. I say, let ‘em all speak!
I certainly don’t want some police chief being the gatekeeper to the public square.
It begins to sound like “Free Speech Alley” at one of our local Universities. It’s an area set aside for students to speek out on whatever they want, as long as they clear it with the administration first.
Robertson’s statement is typical of religious “thinking” (if I may use the word in this context). A person believes/thinks/acts based on what he WANTS to be true rather than what the evidence shows to be true. Since one’s emotional desires are often nonsensical and contradictory, the resultant behavior is the same. This is why religion-based decision making gets us in trouble.
BB: “everyone of us is a lying hypocrite..”
Excuse me if I take issue w/that statement. Speak 4 URself, please.
TomSD: I believe in free speech. I just do not believe in some mullah or a preacher asking their congregation, or the government to kill somebody because of their use of their free speech. This seems to be the problem from my perspective. Chavez, although on the left side of the spectrum is a democraticaly elected president. PR is a self annoited representative from god who strongly disagrees with Mr. Chaves’s point of view, and found no easier way of silencing him than to have him taken care of. I would think that a free speech advocate would try to get these two views to the public without one publicly threatening the other. Once one of the parties shouts “let’s take out XYZ because he is a problem” that party has crossed the line and is akin to yelling “fire” in a crowded theater. Some dim witted follower will have no second though at carrying it out, and then in his defense saying, that god told him to do it through PR, or another such defense.
There are two points about Robertson’s statement I’d make.
One, that he has a keen sense of the recklessness and lawlessness of
the Bush administration. I believe he believes that he was just
“getting on board” with them. I’m sure he felt very
comfortable barking up Chavez’z assassination. This is a clear
picture of the arrogance of power this finger slinging administration
has.
Two, that the defense of Robertson, with rationalization or
reticence, from fellow Christians will be a condemnation of
Christianity. The non-Christian world will understand this as
hypocrisy, the Word will be worthless.
b.
Here are some cartoons of Pat.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/8/25/82331/8316
BB
It is that type of stupid childish thinking that has allowed the Robertson’s et al to get away with their nonsense for so long. Reluctant is correct Speak for yourself.
It’s funny in a sick and disturbing way. Why does this ass always seem to be so misunderstood? We really do know his kind and they are sick and mentally disturbed.
Read revelation. These people are preparing for armageddon. They believe that they will be wisked into heaven and that the current earth will be distroyed and then they will be put in charge to “Rule and Reign”. A perfect way to enslave masses is to get them to believe that they will be the ones to rule?
Also as a side note. The part I like is. Jesus comes back and before he starts the slaughter He says “though they cry out lord lord I know them NOT”. Who says lord? ONLY christians. He isn’t talking about us or jews or buddhists etc. If you believe such things? The christians DO or they would have stopped this nosense already. I count them guilty by omission. They refuse to do or say anything at all about such a dispicable liar. JIM
jimmerone: right on target. It’s the Dominion Theonomy concept. Millenialists who are attempting to ‘jump-start’ Armageddon. Why do U think these people R trying to take over? Because of the book that Paine called ‘the book of riddles’ – Revelations. They want to initiate the 1000 year reign that John ‘predicted’. Not 2 use an argumentum ad Hitlerum, but it was precisely this sort of thinking that started the Holocaust. No, I’m not an alarmist. Ipsa race loquitor.
Jim-
That just points yet again to how narrow-minded xtians are. They can’t even put themselves in our shoes and look at how life would be like without god. Everything that happens is put in terms of god, even us. I am constantly asked why I participate in the atheist religion, and if one more persons asks me that I’m going to explode. Everything has to be a religion to them. They also think they can get away with anything because god is on their side, not ours. pat actually thinks god wants him to say that, and that he is just carrying out god’s plan for humanity. If I was a xtian, I would probably go around saying stuff like that too, and just play the god card whenever I get in trouble, of course, I’m not a xtian, since I have a brain. They just make me so angry sometimes.
This is off topic…but I’m curious as to what Dave and others might think of this:
http://www.rense.com/general67/globa.htm
I went upstairs to ask my little brother (14) and my little sister (17) what first comes to their minds when I say the term “take out”. My brother, (who plays alot of online military-like games, like Halo and Counter Strike) said, “to take someone out usually means to kill them in a steathily way.” My sister was a little less descriptive but she said, “To take someone out means to remove them from power by certain means.”
“We should take Chavez out………….to dinner.”
a rope leash
Sorry bud. I’ve been trying off and on to get to that site you posted, but my ‘puter says it isn’t there.
I just now copied and pasted the link, and it worked fine.
Can you go to http://www.rense.com at all? Some internet providers block it.
The link relates to something called the “Department of Anti-Semitism”, a new government agency, apparently.
rope
I just did open http://www.rense.com. Saw the lifetime loser award pic of Robertson, scrolled down & found some articles on him; read the one about Venezuela calling him a terrorist.
I tried earlier to open same exact thing, but no luck then. weird.
was this what you were referencing?
Scroll down to the links at the bottom (the lesser headlines). There is one called “The Real Motive Behind the Department of Anti-Semitism”.
It’s an unusual site…I don’t take everything I read there as truth, but it’s a fun place for checking out alternate realities.
Rope
Oy Weh!
But if Chavez were Jewish, this woulda taken care of Robertson.
Well, the Rense article may (or may not be) alarmist, but pre-9/11, it was common coin to call critics of Israel ‘Anti-Zionist’ or ‘Anti-semite’. If only 1/2 that article is true, tho, Brrrhhh! I have 1/2 a mind (no wise cracks, please!LOL) to call these people, & tell them the OT is barbaric trash, just 2 C what the response is.
Rope Leash? Why do some ISPs block it? It seems to link to some interesting sites (truthout.org, 4 1, which also culls from outside sources).
Yes, Rense has a lot of interesting links. It’s rated at about 3500 on the Alexa scale, which means it’s pretty popular.
I don’t know why it gets blocked (unless it’s a Jewish controlled media conspiracy?!). I do know that Rense and informationclearinghouse.info were “frozen” by my employer’s ISP, and it did not update until the ISP was changed. I’ve mentioned Rense to my friends, and some of them say they can’t get there.
At times, Rense has me convinced that UFOs exist. People take photos and videos of some really odd shit in the sky, but it never comes out crystal clear. I’ve seen UFOs…but that’s just what they were…unidentified!
As for the Department of Anti-Semitism…if it does exist, it’s unfair to all other religions. Christians get bashed horribly here and in other media. Muslims get a bad rep every day. Who are the Jews that they cannot be criticized?
Did you see at Rense the story of Ernst Zundel? He basically wrote and spoke about the holocaust in a way that revised the history. He was arrested here, sent to Canada, and then sent to Germany to be tried under anti-Semitism laws there.
A couple of quotes from one of my favorite web masters, Michael Rivero of whatreallyhappened.com:
“Truth does not need a law to uphold it.”
“I don’t have a problem with God, it’s his fan club that worries me!”
This is an ad from the Washington Post that criticizes the policies of Israel. It was placed by a jewish sect…
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/news/washingtonpost/wpad082105.pdf
“I don’t have a problem with God, it’s his fan club that worries me!”
I love that quote
it is funny when you do not take the word “God” ….literately
Here’s another thing on Robertson from a while back…an appropriate example of why he should not be taken seriously:
http://www.davidicke.net/religiousfrauds/evangelists/stoneufos.html
I agree he shouldn’t be taken seriously – he’s a nut job. Problem is, he’s a religious nutjob w/TOO many followers. WAY TOO MANY. 10 people are way too many. Martin Luther was a religious nutjob as well, & that didn’t turn out very well 4 Germany.
This guy just went off on ‘em:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10009.htm
Ummm…who bashes Xtians?
An addendum: the 10 commandments DON’T apply to Gentiles. The actual commandments 4 Gentiles are the 7 Noahide laws (& yeah, ‘thou shalt not kill IS among them). Going to have an article about this on my website (coming soon! Hope this is okay w/U, David? Shameless plug!)
I am a New Zealander and think that Robertson guy is a nutter and very dangerous. I am also an atheist because after reading what theism has done to humanity it was very easy. I live in China in the high tech industry. China has an advantage that is government separates religion very very effectively because the state of China officially is atheist. All the leaders that I know of in Government are atheists, they are also technocrats. They are forward thinking, not like politicians incorporating religious belief looking into the past for guidance.
There are 1.3billion people with about 54 nationalities in 24 provinces, two Special Administrative Regions and 5 Autonomous States. Here with this massive population there is relative minor religious intolerance. If a Pat Robertson raised his voice in this manner in China he would be detained without question. If a group of religious peoples would start to provoke religious argument they would be dealt with very quickly by the state i.e Falun Gong which is run by a Chinese person out of some expensive apartment I believe in New York. This group was vanquished very quickly and effectively. Pat Robertson should be hospitalised in a mental sanitorium. This website is wonderful, very rational commentory.
New Zealander again. I lived for 7 years in South Africa in Rhodesia. Blacks where not allowed into white or coloured church’s. Black priests where treated like dirt although they read from that fiction the bible and adherde to “the so called lord”. If the lord ever comes back, which is not likely they should try him and execute him before he causes too much s..t
In Africa there was the Afrikaner’s Dutch Reform church, there was Presbyterian and Anglican Church’s the white ones and the black ones.
I went to other countries in Southern Africa and there were Mozambiquians speaking fluent Portugese and were catholics, In South West Africa and Tanzania there where Africans speaking fluent German and were Lutherans. Then further north the French speaking Aricans probably catholic.
In other words what ever coloniser, read plunderer and rapist, got into a African country the population was beaten into being submissive of the culture and religion and numbed into submission firstly with violence then into slave labor. On top if this the colonisers used these slaves to fight in other area’s of the world against fellow blacks and even in Vietnam.
Of course this plundering never stopped even when the colonisers where fighting each in Africa like they have never stopped doing in Europe or the middle east.
In Europe there are more church’s per sq Km than any other area of the world and its been in that area that there have been two world wars, tens of millions have been killed. Think about it.
Religion ? Should be damned and banned.
OK, I have another idea for Pat Robertson:
Let’s take up a collection to buy the needed supplies to make Pat what he has always wanted.
First we need about 3m of 18cm x18 cm Oak,
Second we need about 1.5 m of 12 cm x 12 cm Oak.
Third we need a small chainsaw to make the articulating notch.
Fourth, we articulate the two Oak sticks to form an offset cruciform shape.
Fifth we need a nice 20cm x 20 cm x 90 cm recess in a big block of concrete – say, a parking lot.
Sixth we need a couple of lag bolts and a mother-f***ing big drill with a Forschner bit to accomodate the lag bolts. (The better to hold the articulation together, my friends.)
Seventh, we need some nice rawhide leather strap – say 1 cm wide by 3mm thick and 8-10 m long – well soaked in hot water.
Eighth we need Pat Robertson.
Assemble cruciform structure, secuirng with lag bolts. Attach Pat Robertson with several wraps of wet rawhide. Suggested placement would be extremities – distal and proximal wraps following the cruciform structure.
Wraps around the trunk or neck are optional.
Arrange for a mechanism (people, crane, etc.) to lift the cruciform shape and insert the long end into the excavated space in the concrete.
Wait.
There is no need for extra cruciform structures – Pat has the credentials to fill the two thieves’ positions alll by himself.
Place of Pay-per-view and charge more as the sun warms the son (of a bitch) and the rawhide shrinks.
Any “believer” wanting mercy must sit through the 200 + hours of 700 Club prayers for the death of (pick the victim) + the prayer to change the direction of the hurricane then bearing down on Va. Beach.
Why? Well we could blame the entire Gulf Coast disaster on Pat’s prayers….
Intriguing, Mr. Darrow. Perhaps reverse the cruciform?
Nah. The last thing this world needs R more Xtian martyrs. It propounds their persecution complex.
Rehnquist apparently passed away today. While I am saddened by his passing (“Each man’s death diminishes me” – John Donne), I cannot but help thinking that Robertson’s prayers to free up the Supreme Court hit the wrong target (if I believed in God, that is).
Rehnquist was the Chief justice, & was pro-prayer-in-the schools, pro-Xtian, & handed down the recent nonsensical TC ruling.
There R two openings, & we can only hope that the Shrub doesn’t tap yet another Xtian Neo-con (vain hope that that may be).
he doesn’t mean to kill him. he means to take him out of power.
…by assassinating him. This is clearly different as “killing” has two l’s in it and “assassinating” has two s’s.
This is demonstrated in a recent sermon by Pat to the congregation in Trailor County:
..And as Pat said unto the congregation reading from the book of “Wibble”, “Two l’s go straight to hell, two s’s the lord will bless us”.
celtic_lord88, why is this any better anyway? Chavez has been twice democratically elected to office, he currently has an approval rating of 71.3 %.
He has done a great deal to help out the poor both in Venezuela and neighbouring countries (including the USA – Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program (LIHEAP)), Growth in Venezuela was 9.3% in the first half of 2005, illiteracy rates have plummeted. All sounds like good stuff to me.
I guess the problem is he just refuses to hand over control of Venezuelas oil resources to American interests.
celtic_lord88: R U JOKING? He specifically stipulates to use special operatives! Whatever UR smoking, I’d like some of that! Must be good stuff! Why is it these religious types turn off their left hemisphere & re-explain something that’s inconvenient? Robertson is no Xtian, at least by their rulebook (if not reality). U did see the news clip?
Please, get a grip.
grandma sucking
grandma sucking